Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #11

[tresir2012]

With Charles and Alex both dead, it's a moot point.

Unless Alex's death is murder or suicide, I agree.

 

[carbuff]

Unless Alex's death is murder or suicide, I agree.

I don't see how that would affect anything relative to Charles' shooting. They can't bring charges against a dead man.

 

[Trask]

I've just put together an estimated timeline for the morning Alex shot and killed Charles, together with some quotes from their statements to law enforcement, and a few of my observations.

The timings for the 911 call and officer's bodycam come from assuming the bodycam is set to UTC (Coordinated Universal Time) which is 7 hours ahead of AZ.


6:30am/7am: Alex wakes up.

Pre-7:40am Charles tells the hotel to expect him and JJ for breakfast. Lawyers: Husband of Lori Vallow made prediction on who will kill him months before he died

7:30am Lori had JJ’s backpack ready for school. She looked at the clock.

7:40am Charles arrives, per Lori. She tells him to go now, and get breakfast for JJ from Burger King (nearest BK I can see is 9 miles/17 mins away, S Alma School Rd, could be near the school which is 15 mins away).

7:50am Tylee wakes up to commotion in her bedroom doorway (of all places in the house) which happened when Charles came back for his phone, so JJ must already be strapped in the car.

7:55am the bat business and Alex pulling Charles back from behind. Tylee is sent out to the car.

7:55 – 8am Charles is shot.

8:00am (5 min later) estimate of when Lori left the house. This gave Lori time to stop and get breakfast for JJ, (she remembered her purse), eat it and take the 30 min round trip to school, and be back by 8:48am.

8:20am JJ’s school gates open.

8:24am Charles comes to pick up JJ – per Alex’s “about 20 mins ago” statement to officer at 8:44am. *Alternatively if he means 20 mins before he shot him this could be 7:40 am.

8:35am Alex shoots Charles – per his “er, couple of minutes” statement on 911 call. He increases this to 5 minutes when he answers questions outside.

8:37am Alex calls 911 (6 min call). This would be 37 mins after an 8:00am shooting. (Quite dead.)

8:43am Officers arrive/Alex comes out of house.

8:48am Lori approaches officer with Tylee, from rental car.


Alex’s responses to officer’s questions:

Q: “When did this happen?” A: “Maybe 5 minutes before I called.”

Q: “What time did he come to pick up the son?” A: “About 20 minutes ago maybe”

Q: “Are you working now?” A: “Er, I’m on vacation this week.”

Q: “Well what do you do for a living?” A: “Oh, I drive a truck”

Q: “How long ago did they leave? Has it been like an hour, 10 minutes?” A: “20 minutes, I don’t know.”

Q: “So not terribly long?” A: “No, no, no.”

Q: “What time did you about wake up this morning?” A: “6:30 or 7”

Q: “Normal day this morning…wake up?” A: “Yeah, vacation, just hanging out, yeah”

Q: “Normal, you, your sister, your niece?” A: “Yeah, gonna go do something fun today”

Q: “You all live in San Tan Valley so why…is it just easier to just hang out here?” A: “Yeah, just, I was just here late last night, stayed the night” (just = minimizing)

Q: “Are you and your sister pretty close?” A: “Yeah, we were planning to go do something today.” (planning - but not saying what, murder most likely)



Lori’s statement: (parts)

Lori said he told her all of a sudden that he was coming Wednesday night and he wanted to see [redacted]. (note 'all of a sudden' precludes planning - misdirection of LE)

Lori indicated her husband hadn’t been here in a couple weeks (since her moving) and he had been “nasty” when he was here. (contradictory)

Lori stated he contacted her and said he was coming Wednesday night and said he was going to pick [redacted] up and take him to school Thursday and then pick him up Thursday and take him Friday. (misdirection of LE - she agreed to a future plan indicating she expected Charles would be alive)

Lori stated his job gives him freedom so he doesn’t have to stay home every day and take care of a special needs child. Lori indicated she does that. (resentment)

Lori indicated her husband had told her that he was coming last night and Lori told him that he couldn’t stay at the house and she would get him a hotel. (he was already in a hotel for past few weeks per link above)

Lori stated that [redacted] does go to school all day and she talked about how she is just getting his services back. (contradicts having to be home all day)

Lori talked about how [redacted] has been a nightmare because her husband ripped [redacted] out of his routine…

Lori described how [redacted] freaks out when he finds out dad is coming because he associates when dad took him to Houston so Lori didn’t tell [redacted] that he was coming. (she didn't tell JJ Charles would be taking him to school, because he would undoubtedly find the reality of Lori taking him hard to accept, but note he was happy to stay outside in Charles' car)

Lori stated he didn’t bother her last night which she was kind of surprised about because she was expecting “kind of an ambush” that he would just come over and be “just mean”. (contradicts what she said earlier - unless they were going to ambush Charles the night before.)

She didn’t hear from him except that he texted her to say he would be there at 7:30 to pick up [redacted]

Lori said he came over in the morning and he was banging on the door. Lori said here we go so she was just trying to be nice and had [redacted] stuff ready for school. I asked what time he got there and Lori stated he had said he would be there at 7:30 but it was more like 7:40 7:35ish but she wasn’t sure. Lori remembers looking at the clock at 7:30 and indicated he is usually very punctual.

Lori said her brother had stayed there last night because Lori was worried her husband would come over and “cause trouble with” her. Lori said she just wanted someone else there, wanted her brother there. (reveals planning - there was no trouble until she took his phone, he was set up)

Lori said she was getting [redacted] stuff ready and he was saying he was leaving in 20 minutes, mentioning it was 15 minutes to the school. Lori mentioned that you can’t get there early because they don’t open the gates until about 8:20 or something. Lori suggested to him that they go now, because she didn’t want him in the house, so they could go to Burger King and get breakfast.

Lori told her husband to go and he agreed so Lori gave him the backpack and they got in the car. Lori stated her husband always leaves something in the house, that he always comes back and he never leaves the first time and she is always expecting her husband to come back in the house. Lori advised he had left his phone on the counter. (how surprising that she has to lead into an explanation of what she did next!)

Lori said his phone was on the counter and then Lori had his phone. He told Lori to give him his phone and she told him “why don’t you show me your text that you’ve been texting.” (note the seamless transition from Charles leaves the phone to and then Lori has it!! Does not tally with her wanting him gone.)

Lori stated he “goes nuts” and then indicated that he’s gone nuts before and that she and [redacted] have had to leave with [redacted] before, over the years five times… Lori said you don’t know what’s going to set him off. (this doesn't tally with deliberately setting him off)

Lori mentioned that they have [redacted] and he is special needs and it’s really hard. (more narrative building about her being saintly, and resentment about JJ)

Lori said he came back in and she wouldn’t give him back his phone and he was screaming at her to give him back his phone. Lori said she was just holding it there and he was screaming at her. Lori said she was kind of walking around the house so he couldn’t get it and he was kind of reaching for it.

Lori said [redacted] came out of her room upset and she had a bat. (omits to say why she kind of walked towards Tylee's room but then camped there long enough to disturb Tylee until Tylee came out)

Lori said her brother Alex heard the commotion and he came out into the main room. (Tylee says he was already involved right outside her room)

Lori said her husband is screaming and is super upset.

Lori doesn’t know if [redacted] swung at him or what but he grabbed the bat from [redacted] and went to hit [redacted] with the bat […] and her brother grabbed him from behind to stop him from hitting [redacted]. (NB> Neither Alex nor Tylee says this is what happened)

Lori said then they [Alex and Charles] get into the thing and he’s hitting her brother with the bat and they’re on the ground like grappling around or whatever. (Tylee says she was sent outside before this)

Lori said she is freaking out and is trying to go around and knows [redacted] is in the car. (but still keeps the phone, so Charles won't be able to call 911)

Lori told [redacted] to go get in the car with [redacted] because she didn’t want [redacted] coming in and she wanted [redacted] out and didn’t want the kids in the house for whatever “this fight was going to be”. (premeditation)

Lori stated […] Charles was coming at her with the bat, yelling at her to give him his phone. Lori stated she still had the phone in her hand.

[NB> she told Tylee to let go of the bat and let Charles have it - because shouting wasn’t going to be cause to shoot a man. Yet she did not relinquish the phone and that was the only reason she has given for Charles following her, and this flies in the face of telling Charles to go because she didn’t want him in the house. She knows he’s not going to leave without his phone, it's not as if he lives there and will be coming back for it. The argument in Tylee’s bedroom doorway seems set up to get Tylee up and out of the house, witness an argument but not witness the murder and because Lori knows Charles won’t be walking back out to JJ. Lori reveals foreknowledge of what was “going to be”. Alex avoids saying why he spent the night there and if they planned to do something fun today he should be able to say what, as plan indicates.]

Tylee's statement (parts):

[redacted] advised that she woke up around 7:50 because she heard yelling right outside her door.

[redacted] said she immediately jumped up and she got the bat and she opened the door and it was her stepdad outside the doorway and her uncle kind of in the doorway and she could hear her mom behind him.

[redacted] said … her uncle kind of moved out of the way and her mom kind of went past him and into the big room where everything happened and she kind of walked with them.

[redacted] said she kind of stuck the baseball bat out there and [Charles] grabbed it and tried to take it but she held onto the end.

She saw [her stepdad] take a step back so she thinks her uncle grabbed him and took him back

(NB. Tylee is not there when Charles and Alex are grappling on the floor/Alex is being hit with the bat.)

[redacted] advised her mum told her to go with [redacted] and then she ran out the door.

[redacted] said she stood there with her little brother. [redacted] indicated he was in the front seat so she opened the door and stood there.

I returned to when she talked about putting the bat out when her step-dad was coming at her mom and asked her to describe what was going on. I asked if there was a reason that she put the bat up. [redacted] stated yes, that he was walking towards her mom and [redacted] did not want him to do anything so she just stuck out the bat.

[redacted] said she’s holding it by the place where you hold it and he kind of took it. [redacted] indicated her mom said ‘just let go’.

Thank you for this! Very helpful to see it all laid out in a timeline.

 

[carbuff]

There is no investigation for either case?

Alex's death investigation is still open. They've said Charles's is only open because of the missing kids, (see timeline) but I don't think they've said what the connection is. Possibly just that they want to talk to them again.

But Alex is dead so they can't charge him with Charles's murder, and it doesn't appear the evidence would support anything more than maybe lying to authorities (obstruction) against Lori.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Some thoughts. MOO
I wonder if they are planning on writing a book about their story. That could be a potential money maker.

Is it possible she is waiting to be arrested before revealing the location of the kids. Could she then sue the state of Idaho for false arrest? (I'm hoping it is something like that, because it would mean the kids could still be alive)

Bbm
I had thought about this angle, given some of the things we have heard about her family's anti-government activity, and for a while I thought it might be a way for her to play up the martyr complex, and also a potential money payout for her. I thought the various LE agencies were working hard to make sure they could prove they had probable cause in whatever charges they brought, so her accusations of false arrest wouldn't stand up in court. But the last week I have changed my mind and no longer believe the children are alive. Moo.

 

[LHS]

With Charles and Alex both dead, it's a moot point.

Not necessarily. If premeditation can come into play, Alex and LORI would have been involved in the planning of the event and Lori is still alive.

 

[RHarrison]

My money is on her crazy translated being rant. They were talking about how she was only going to get supervised visits with JJ. He was obviously inferring that because he thought he could prove she was mentally unstable he was going to move forward and officially try to limit her access to him. How could he prove she was mentally unstable without it being a he said she said? The recording. Im guessing since her mental instability was the topic that day, and the recording would be the only proof he had of that, she took the phone to make sure he didnt have the recording anymore. Possibly also to see if he had given any other hard evidence to Adam. Why would she care if Charles was having an affair? She was having an affair. Its not like proving his affair would do anything, because she was doing the same thing.

usually the people having an affair are the ones accusing others of having an affair. She was obviously having an affair with Chad therefore felt the need to accuse Charles of having an affair.

 

[nopynono]

FWIW I would believe the later time. My involvement in this case came from a post on nextdoor. I generally get home from dropping kiddos off at ~8:55. As soon as I got home I saw I had notices on a nextdoor post I had been following about people letting off loud fireworks. It turned out to be Charles' murder. No more than 10 minutes after I checked the thread another poster said they had just driven by the street where Charles was shot and reported a lot of police presence. That's when everyone surmised it was gunshots and not fireworks they heard.

Did they mention how many shots they heard? And was there any local info about the pool party?[/QUOTE]

Not the number, but the wording was "loud booms" plural. I didnt see any info about a pool party, but at the time I wasn't looking for any since it wasn't revealed by the landlord until much later. I do know that any post about the issue after the shooting seemed to be removed quickly. I dont live close enough that I would have gotten any local info from the neighbors.

 

[LHS]

Does anyone else see blatant conflict in Lori claiming she didn't want to see Charles, and wanted him to leave that day, but then keeping the phone and using it to keep him there? Yeah that's not normal behavior. If you want him to leave, give the phone back. Obviously that wasn't what she really wanted. She escalated the conflict considerably with the taking and refusing to return his phone.

 

[carbuff]

Not necessarily. If premeditation can come into play, Alex and LORI would have been involved in the planning of the event and Lori is still alive.

Yeah, I suppose theoretically some sort of accessory charge might be possible, but with Alex dead there's not much evidence to take to a jury.

 

[MsBetsy]

Alex's death investigation is still open. They've said Charles's is only open because of the missing kids, (see timeline) but I don't think they've said what the connection is. Possibly just that they want to talk to them again.

But Alex is dead so they can't charge him with Charles's murder, and it doesn't appear the evidence would support anything more than maybe lying to authorities (obstruction) against Lori.

Ok, thanks.

But isn't there reason to believe that Lori was in some way involved? Does it seem like LE suspects her? I realize there is not enough evidence but does anyone believe investigators are very interested in Lori and Chad in terms of possible involvement?

I'm hesitant to ask too many questions since I've missed so much and just when I started following, Fotis Dulos committed suicide so I've been going back and forth between threads!

Anyway that's my last question until I have more time to catch up.

 

[tresir2012]

Yeah, I suppose theoretically some sort of accessory charge might be possible, but with Alex dead there's not much evidence to take to a jury.

I did notice that she indicated to LE in her interview that she asked Alex to stay because she was anticipating there could be trouble. I'll try to quote from the interview.

Eta. I cannot copy and paste but it is post 391 of the media thread, the screenshot numbered page 79 and third paragraph down.

 

[OhioStateD]

Whoa. Can someone screenshot these family texts for the media thread? It won't work for me

@Gardener1850

I can do it but since they are alleged FB conversations, am I allowed to? It's on a news FB page though...

 

[utahobserver]

"What did Lori do with Charles' phone?" New comments from an hour ago, from Justin Lum, about CV's phone, SIM, SD card, and PIN:

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

That Lori sends a text to let Charles’s sons know of his death - is just beyond appalling. It deliberately positions her to control information so that when the next text comes in reply asking what happened, she lies. Too awkward for her to disclose that her brother shot their father to death. Too revealing to state the truth.

Well done Justin!

 

[carbuff]

Ok, thanks.

But isn't there reason to believe that Lori was in some way involved? Does it seem like LE suspects her? I realize there is not enough evidence but does anyone believe investigators are very interested in Lori and Chad in terms of possible involvement?

I'm hesitant to ask too many questions since I've missed so much and just when I started following, Fotis Dulos committed suicide so I've been going back and forth between threads!

Anyway that's my last question until I have more time to catch up.

Well, it seems like the biggest issue is the gap between "reason to believe there's involvement" and having hard evidence you can take to a jury. Which I am not in a position to have an opinion of. They might or might not have hard evidence and even if they do, they might not think it's enough to get a conviction.

 

[Gardener1850]

I've just put together an estimated timeline for the morning Alex shot and killed Charles, together with some quotes from their statements to law enforcement, and a few of my observations.

The timings for the 911 call and officer's bodycam come from assuming the bodycam is set to UTC (Coordinated Universal Time) which is 7 hours ahead of AZ.


6:30am/7am: Alex wakes up.

Pre-7:40am Charles tells the hotel to expect him and JJ for breakfast. Lawyers: Husband of Lori Vallow made prediction on who will kill him months before he died

7:30am Lori had JJ’s backpack ready for school. She looked at the clock.

7:40am Charles arrives, per Lori. She tells him to go now, and get breakfast for JJ from Burger King (nearest BK I can see is 9 miles/17 mins away, S Alma School Rd, could be near the school which is 15 mins away).

7:50am Tylee wakes up to commotion in her bedroom doorway (of all places in the house) which happened when Charles came back for his phone, so JJ must already be strapped in the car.

7:55am the bat business and Alex pulling Charles back from behind. Tylee is sent out to the car.

7:55 – 8am Charles is shot.

8:00am (5 min later) estimate of when Lori left the house. This gave Lori time to stop and get breakfast for JJ, (she remembered her purse), eat it and take the 30 min round trip to school, and be back by 8:48am.

8:20am JJ’s school gates open.

8:24am Charles comes to pick up JJ – per Alex’s “about 20 mins ago” statement to officer at 8:44am. *Alternatively if he means 20 mins before he shot him this could be 7:40 am.

8:35am Alex shoots Charles – per his “er, couple of minutes” statement on 911 call. He increases this to 5 minutes when he answers questions outside.

8:37am Alex calls 911 (6 min call). This would be 37 mins after an 8:00am shooting. (Quite dead.)

8:43am Officers arrive/Alex comes out of house.

8:48am Lori approaches officer with Tylee, from rental car.


Alex’s responses to officer’s questions:

Q: “When did this happen?” A: “Maybe 5 minutes before I called.”

Q: “What time did he come to pick up the son?” A: “About 20 minutes ago maybe”

Q: “Are you working now?” A: “Er, I’m on vacation this week.”

Q: “Well what do you do for a living?” A: “Oh, I drive a truck”

Q: “How long ago did they leave? Has it been like an hour, 10 minutes?” A: “20 minutes, I don’t know.”

Q: “So not terribly long?” A: “No, no, no.”

Q: “What time did you about wake up this morning?” A: “6:30 or 7”

Q: “Normal day this morning…wake up?” A: “Yeah, vacation, just hanging out, yeah”

Q: “Normal, you, your sister, your niece?” A: “Yeah, gonna go do something fun today”

Q: “You all live in San Tan Valley so why…is it just easier to just hang out here?” A: “Yeah, just, I was just here late last night, stayed the night” (just = minimizing)

Q: “Are you and your sister pretty close?” A: “Yeah, we were planning to go do something today.” (planning - but not saying what, murder most likely)



Lori’s statement: (parts)

Lori said he told her all of a sudden that he was coming Wednesday night and he wanted to see [redacted]. (note 'all of a sudden' precludes planning - misdirection of LE)

Lori indicated her husband hadn’t been here in a couple weeks (since her moving) and he had been “nasty” when he was here. (contradictory)

Lori stated he contacted her and said he was coming Wednesday night and said he was going to pick [redacted] up and take him to school Thursday and then pick him up Thursday and take him Friday. (misdirection of LE - she agreed to a future plan indicating she expected Charles would be alive)

Lori stated his job gives him freedom so he doesn’t have to stay home every day and take care of a special needs child. Lori indicated she does that. (resentment)

Lori indicated her husband had told her that he was coming last night and Lori told him that he couldn’t stay at the house and she would get him a hotel. (he was already in a hotel for past few weeks per link above)

Lori stated that [redacted] does go to school all day and she talked about how she is just getting his services back. (contradicts having to be home all day)

Lori talked about how [redacted] has been a nightmare because her husband ripped [redacted] out of his routine…

Lori described how [redacted] freaks out when he finds out dad is coming because he associates when dad took him to Houston so Lori didn’t tell [redacted] that he was coming. (she didn't tell JJ Charles would be taking him to school, because he would undoubtedly find the reality of Lori taking him hard to accept, but note he was happy to stay outside in Charles' car)

Lori stated he didn’t bother her last night which she was kind of surprised about because she was expecting “kind of an ambush” that he would just come over and be “just mean”. (contradicts what she said earlier - unless they were going to ambush Charles the night before.)

She didn’t hear from him except that he texted her to say he would be there at 7:30 to pick up [redacted]

Lori said he came over in the morning and he was banging on the door. Lori said here we go so she was just trying to be nice and had [redacted] stuff ready for school. I asked what time he got there and Lori stated he had said he would be there at 7:30 but it was more like 7:40 7:35ish but she wasn’t sure. Lori remembers looking at the clock at 7:30 and indicated he is usually very punctual.

Lori said her brother had stayed there last night because Lori was worried her husband would come over and “cause trouble with” her. Lori said she just wanted someone else there, wanted her brother there. (reveals planning - there was no trouble until she took his phone, he was set up)

Lori said she was getting [redacted] stuff ready and he was saying he was leaving in 20 minutes, mentioning it was 15 minutes to the school. Lori mentioned that you can’t get there early because they don’t open the gates until about 8:20 or something. Lori suggested to him that they go now, because she didn’t want him in the house, so they could go to Burger King and get breakfast.

Lori told her husband to go and he agreed so Lori gave him the backpack and they got in the car. Lori stated her husband always leaves something in the house, that he always comes back and he never leaves the first time and she is always expecting her husband to come back in the house. Lori advised he had left his phone on the counter. (how surprising that she has to lead into an explanation of what she did next!)

Lori said his phone was on the counter and then Lori had his phone. He told Lori to give him his phone and she told him “why don’t you show me your text that you’ve been texting.” (note the seamless transition from Charles leaves the phone to and then Lori has it!! Does not tally with her wanting him gone.)

Lori stated he “goes nuts” and then indicated that he’s gone nuts before and that she and [redacted] have had to leave with [redacted] before, over the years five times… Lori said you don’t know what’s going to set him off. (this doesn't tally with deliberately setting him off)

Lori mentioned that they have [redacted] and he is special needs and it’s really hard. (more narrative building about her being saintly, and resentment about JJ)

Lori said he came back in and she wouldn’t give him back his phone and he was screaming at her to give him back his phone. Lori said she was just holding it there and he was screaming at her. Lori said she was kind of walking around the house so he couldn’t get it and he was kind of reaching for it.

Lori said [redacted] came out of her room upset and she had a bat. (omits to say why she kind of walked towards Tylee's room but then camped there long enough to disturb Tylee until Tylee came out)

Lori said her brother Alex heard the commotion and he came out into the main room. (Tylee says he was already involved right outside her room)

Lori said her husband is screaming and is super upset.

Lori doesn’t know if [redacted] swung at him or what but he grabbed the bat from [redacted] and went to hit [redacted] with the bat […] and her brother grabbed him from behind to stop him from hitting [redacted]. (NB> Neither Alex nor Tylee says this is what happened)

Lori said then they [Alex and Charles] get into the thing and he’s hitting her brother with the bat and they’re on the ground like grappling around or whatever. (Tylee says she was sent outside before this)

Lori said she is freaking out and is trying to go around and knows [redacted] is in the car. (but still keeps the phone, so Charles won't be able to call 911)

Lori told [redacted] to go get in the car with [redacted] because she didn’t want [redacted] coming in and she wanted [redacted] out and didn’t want the kids in the house for whatever “this fight was going to be”. (premeditation)

Lori stated […] Charles was coming at her with the bat, yelling at her to give him his phone. Lori stated she still had the phone in her hand.

[NB> she told Tylee to let go of the bat and let Charles have it - because shouting wasn’t going to be cause to shoot a man. Yet she did not relinquish the phone and that was the only reason she has given for Charles following her, and this flies in the face of telling Charles to go because she didn’t want him in the house. She knows he’s not going to leave without his phone, it's not as if he lives there and will be coming back for it. The argument in Tylee’s bedroom doorway seems set up to get Tylee up and out of the house, witness an argument but not witness the murder and because Lori knows Charles won’t be walking back out to JJ. Lori reveals foreknowledge of what was “going to be”. Alex avoids saying why he spent the night there and if they planned to do something fun today he should be able to say what, as plan indicates.]

Tylee's statement (parts):

[redacted] advised that she woke up around 7:50 because she heard yelling right outside her door.

[redacted] said she immediately jumped up and she got the bat and she opened the door and it was her stepdad outside the doorway and her uncle kind of in the doorway and she could hear her mom behind him.

[redacted] said … her uncle kind of moved out of the way and her mom kind of went past him and into the big room where everything happened and she kind of walked with them.

[redacted] said she kind of stuck the baseball bat out there and [Charles] grabbed it and tried to take it but she held onto the end.

She saw [her stepdad] take a step back so she thinks her uncle grabbed him and took him back

(NB. Tylee is not there when Charles and Alex are grappling on the floor/Alex is being hit with the bat.)

[redacted] advised her mum told her to go with [redacted] and then she ran out the door.

[redacted] said she stood there with her little brother. [redacted] indicated he was in the front seat so she opened the door and stood there.

I returned to when she talked about putting the bat out when her step-dad was coming at her mom and asked her to describe what was going on. I asked if there was a reason that she put the bat up. [redacted] stated yes, that he was walking towards her mom and [redacted] did not want him to do anything so she just stuck out the bat.

[redacted] said she’s holding it by the place where you hold it and he kind of took it. [redacted] indicated her mom said ‘just let go’.

Thank you for this. Do you mind posting it over in the media/timeline thread? It really helps to see the deception that took place. I've believed for a while that they shot Charles and then waited at least 30-40 minutes for him to die before calling 911/before Lori left with the kids. I think Charles arrived early enough to take JJ to breakfast at the hotel before school and Lori was shifting the timeline by saying he was running late. It would be interesting to see if any neighborhood cameras picked up CV's arrival and Lori's departure in his rental car. MOO.

 

[cmiller8617]

I don't see how that would affect anything relative to Charles' shooting. They can't bring charges against a dead man.

DBM

 

[ReadyorNot]

Does anyone else see blatant conflict in Lori claiming she didn't want to see Charles, and wanted him to leave that day, but then keeping the phone and using it to keep him there? Yeah that's not normal behavior. If you want him to leave, give the phone back. Obviously that wasn't what she really wanted. She escalated the conflict considerably with the taking and refusing to return his phone.

Yes and also how she claimed he was in a rage and she was so afraid, but yet wouldn't hand over the phone.

 

[Trask]

Whoa. Can someone screenshot these family texts for the media thread? It won't work for me

@Gardener1850

<modsnip: screenshots removed but they may be discussed here and are available for viewing at Justin Lum's social media account>

Texts from Lori to one of Charles' sons by Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix. OMG, these are just heartbreaking.
Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

 

[MimosaMornings]

You send a text to tell them their father died? They didn’t deserve a phone call that he was murdered? That is beyond cold.