Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #11

[indicolite22]

Here are the Hawaii marriage license rules: Marriage Licenses

All she needed was an ID. Chad would need a death certificate.

BBM. Could he have obtained the death certificate from Hawaii or he should have brought it with him? If the latter, then why would he take it with him, when he only went to Hawaii to write?

 

[BigAl16]

When did Chad and Tammy move to Rexburg? I wonder if Chad knew Lori then?

According to Gardner1850's timeline at the top of the thread they moved to Rexburg in June of 2015. I'm not sure that we know exactly when Chad and Lori first met, but I think there was talk that Lori started reading his books "about 4 years ago" so I think it would be a real stretch to think that Chad moved to Rexburg after they met if that's what you're wondering (plus he started pushing for the move about a year before it actually happened).

 

[jjenny]

So I believe Alex plead guilty to assault (a second degree felony) of Joseph Ryan in TX, which means after five years passed he could legally own guns again in TX. But it's not true under federal law. So why didn't AZ questioned whether he could legally even have a gun he claimed he used for self-defense when he killed Charles.

 

[jjenny]

BBM. Could he have obtained the death certificate from Hawaii or he should have brought it with him? If the latter, then why would he take it with him, when he only went to Hawaii to write?

Oh come on. Who here believes he actually went to Hawaii to write?

 

[BigAl16]

Unless they're in different names, which was what started this whole discussion. I mean that's a new level if she is using aliases. I don't know if she is or not, but it's a consideration. Jmo

I think various things (SSN and such) that she'd have to provide to get the DL in a new name in a new state would cause her old DL to not be valid as a DL, but physical posession of the DL to use as ID under another name in some situations might still be worth the hassle if she perceived the potential need. I wouldn't, but I could see Lori seeing the possibility. MOO

 

[divineappt]

At least in theory I think to get a DL in a new state you are supposed to turn in your DL from your old state. If you claim not to have one (something they could probably check) then I'd think that would create questions and issues, depending on age. At a minimum you'd have to take the tests (presumably no big deal). I guess you could say you lost it during the move, not very credible but maybe it would work. But I'm thinking if the new state determines you have a DL elsewhere that they let the old state know you've got a new one so they'll invalidate the old, but if you still have it in your possesion then if you use it for anything other than flying or to give to LE for any reason then you're probably safe. It seems like a lot of work to get two DLs that one of them is only going to be good for things like checking into hotels.

I checked this out in multiple places including Florida.gov and Hawaii.gov, but it was much briefer here.

Florida did allow you to have two DL’s up until I think 2009 until the real ID law came about.

Cop Talk: Is it legal to have two driver's licenses?

“Answer to your first question is no. You can only have one driver's license. So let's say you spend your winters in California and summers in South Dakota. In most instances you need to select where you want to be or are a resident of. This can be done based on many different factors, including where you are registered to vote, have a homeowner's tax exemption and earn an income. So for the sake of this discussion, let's say you are a resident of South Dakota but as soon as the snow starts to fly, you high-tail it back to California. If you want, you can get a California identification card without giving up your South Dakota driver's license.”

 

[divineappt]

I think various things (SSN and such) that she'd have to provide to get the DL in a new name in a new state would cause her old DL to not be valid as a DL, but physical posession of the DL to use as ID under another name in some situations might still be worth the hassle if she perceived the potential need. I wouldn't, but I could see Lori seeing the possibility. MOO

You are required by law to turn in your old drivers license from the other state, but what’s another lie! LOL!

 

[utahobserver]

More pressure. From KUTV SLC CBS Affiliate (I placed in media thread)

Here's what we know so far: The search for Joshua Vallow and Tylee Ryan

 

[indicolite22]

Oh come on. Who here believes he actually went to Hawaii to write?

It would have been even weirder if he admitted (immediately after the funeral) that he was going to Hawaii to get married. My question was more like if it was normal for him to take the certificate to Hawaii. For what other purpose could the certificate be used there?

ETA: I'm sure that there are people (like his children) that bought his story.

 

[Friday Fan]

This came to my mind awhile back, but I had kind of forgotten to ask what Lori has had on her prior record. I have read about other members of her family but nothing specific to her. Alex had been convicted of the tazing incident with Joseph. Wouldn’t that automatically make it illegal for him to possess a firearm?

This came up way back. Under Texas state law a convicted felon may possess a firearm in the residence, in which he lives, once five years have elapsed from the date his sentence was discharged. This means the later of release from prison or parole. This is not true under federal law.

Long story short? A convicted Texas felon can legally own a gun in their home so long as they meet the abovementioned legal terms. But if prosecuted under federal law, the same resident can be convicted of the crime of illegally possessing a firearm.

My note: I have no idea whether Alex could legally purchase a gun, (background check) however there is the gun show/gift loophole, and since he can legally possess a gun I don't think the police in AZ bothered to ask.

 

[fred&edna]

So I believe Alex plead guilty to assault (a second degree felony) of Joseph Ryan in TX, which means after five years passed he could legally own guns again in TX. But it's not true under federal law. So why didn't AZ questioned whether he could legally even have a gun he claimed he used for self-defense when he killed Charles.

I suppose he could have had his civil rights restored in Texas... Thus allowing gun ownership?

This link is for Western Texas... I assume it applies?? ETA:. I just noticed FridayFan posted similar thought

Civil Rights Restoration – U.S. Probation Office

 

[Avocado49]

Direct quote from this site. BBM

• If previously married, proof of original divorce decree or death certificate needs to be presented to the marriage agent by the applicant if the divorce or death was final within 30 days of applying for a marriage license.

So Lori could have used either her divorce decree from Joseph Ryan or Charles’ death certificate.

 

[KonaHonu]

At least in theory I think to get a DL in a new state you are supposed to turn in your DL from your old state. If you claim not to have one (something they could probably check) then I'd think that would create questions and issues, depending on age. At a minimum you'd have to take the tests (presumably no big deal). I guess you could say you lost it during the move, not very credible but maybe it would work. But I'm thinking if the new state determines you have a DL elsewhere that they let the old state know you've got a new one so they'll invalidate the old, but if you still have it in your possesion then if you use it for anything other than flying or to give to LE for any reason then you're probably safe. It seems like a lot of work to get two DLs that one of them is only going to be good for things like checking into hotels.

Yes. If you get a new DL you have to surrender the old one(s). States and insurance companies share information. But if you get a state ID then you do NOT surrender your license.

Saying you lost your old one would not work. You can get a duplicate.

We also know that IF she got a Hawaii DL it was in the name of Lori Vallow because she was ticketed under that name.

 

[KonaHonu]

So Lori could have used either her divorce decree from Joseph Ryan or Charles’ death certificate.

She did not need anything because it had been more than 30 days since Charles died

 

[KonaHonu]

You still have to get a new driving license if you move to a new state. So it doesn't really add much work if you tell them you lost your previous drivers license.

No. You do not need to get a new license when you move to Hawaii.

 

[Kalamos23]

If she had lost or “lost” her HI ID before and got a duplicate, she could technically both hand over 1 of the IDs for AZ or wherever she lived next, and had one to keep on hand for a “local discount”.

I could easily see her doing something like that considering that she seems to like HI, and the discount attached to having a local license. Jmo

 

[tresir2012]

At this point Lori has no income as such. Have we heard of her having a job at any point in Idaho? I know she and Charles had the juice bar in Hawaii at some point. She supposedly has training to cut hair although I'm not sure what states she is licensed to do so and no one has mentioned when (if ever) she last did that. My impression, maybe incorrectly, is that she was living off of Charles in AZ. Sure, she has some "assests" potentially. I guess any income from social security from Tylee or JJ might have been included, but anything else would be a lie and while not sure how much she might have been receiving on behalf of Tylee and JJ, if it was more than 10% of that 30K number, I'd be amazed.

Doesn't she get widow benefits from the dead husbands? I know she was divorced from JR but I believe she got some life insurance, also as she was legally still married when CV was killed, would she receive widows benefits as well? What about any joint assets they had like the business?

 

[Trask]

BBM. Could he have obtained the death certificate from Hawaii or he should have brought it with him? If the latter, then why would he take it with him, when he only went to Hawaii to write?

The death certificate would be issued in Idaho so he would have needed to bring that with him ... if they even bothered to check. I'm really hoping a Google search for "documents required for marriage license in Hawaii" predating Tammy's death shows up on that home computer they hauled away in Rexburg.

 

[Kalamos23]

Doesn't she get widow benefits from the dead husbands? I know she was divorced from JR but I believe she got some life insurance, also as she was legally still married when CV was killed, would she receive widows benefits as well? What about any joint assets they had like the business?

Widow benefits from Social Security start at age 60. She would be able to get SS death benefits for JJ (because he’s a minor) though due to CV being killed.

 

[KonaHonu]

I suppose he could have had his civil rights restored in Texas... Thus allowing gun ownership?

This link is for Western Texas... I assume it applies?? ETA:. I just noticed FridayFan posted similar thought

Civil Rights Restoration – U.S. Probation Office

Found this: Restoration of firearm rights in Arizona

Quirk in the law: the 1986 federal amendments provided that a State restoration of rights after a felony convicted acted to restore Federal rights to own a gun, unless the State law expressly provided otherwise. (I know -- I wrote that clause while working in Washington).

Arizona's rewrite of the criminal code in 1977 simply provided that, after a first conviction, civil rights were restored automatically at the end of probation. In 1988 the law was amended to provide that this did not apply to firearms rights -- you had to file a motion to get them restored. So if a conviction on a first offense was entered prior to 1988, rights were automatically restored and you probably don't need a motion. (The bill was signed on June 21, 1988 -- I haven't checked the effective date, which would have been after the legislative session ended that year). You might want a restoration anyway (1) to be sure and (2) I'm not sure that the background check computers know this detail of Arizona legal history.

So it would seem that his rights would automatically be restored in Texas and that would apply federally as well. But it would appear Arizona would still prohibit him from carrying unless he requested restoration.