Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #14

[KonaHonu]

KonaHona. THE HUGE THING ON MY MIND AND PROBABLY OTHERS... Is there anything/anyone/FBI stopping them from flying to a country or island without an extradition treaty with the USA....

I would assume if the kids were not alive, they would've tried to leave already... so at least there might be some hope for the kids being found alive!

I'm sure the feds can block their travel on commercial carriers by flagging their passports.

But if you are familiar with Hawaii you would know that at any given time there are dozens of foreign fishing vessels in port. Most crew cannot leave the ship because ICE watches. But anyone can enter the ship. And when they get back to home port in, say, Samoa, no one will look closely. I only pick Samoa because it is one of dozens of possible countries. They could probably bribe a captain to take them for less than they are paying per night in Kauai!

 

[KonaHonu]

Can an emergency jurisdiction be granted if the respondents can show some kind of neglect or abuse in Idaho? I couldn't find it anywhere. But I think it can be granted in most states. Otherwise the kid needs to live there, with a guardian, for 6 mo. MOO

Perhaps it can, but to what end? The kids are still gone and L&C are still at the beach.

 

[Colorado303]

I personally don't see a lack of urgency. What I see is a necessary abundance of caution.

The timeline is exploding daily with new information. It's being carefully built by all involved.

LE has been tracking Lori and Chad for a long time. They knew where they were long before John Q. Public knew.

They are carefully getting search warrants issued. Multiple states. This is a huge investigation. We see the surface. What they allow us to see.

Plans are being put in place now for the guardianship of JJ.

LE has to be careful. They need the children or their bodies. That's the priority. After that, solid charges for whatever crimes and arrests of whoever is involved.

We may all collectively faint when all is said and done.

Jmo

Agree completely. But I’m not confident Lori (and Chad?) have the discipline to not bump someone else off if they are provoked enough, either by their own hand or at their direction. And “provoked” to them could be as simple as thinking someone has turned into a Zombie. LE has enough on their plate, the last thing they need is to have to defend why they weren’t already locked up if someone else gets hurt. I hope they have everything they need soon.

MOO

 

[Lyrarya]

Perhaps it can, but to what end? The kids are still gone and L&C are still at the beach.

So what we are basically saying is if I wanted to get rid of my kids, by death or a relative or an underground sex ring. I could just move to Idaho, put those kids in school for a day, sign them out and claim I'm homeschooling and then just get rid of them and no one can say anything? Yay, let freedom ring. Wonder how many times it has already happened. Might as well live on Tijuana.

 

[tresir2012]

But, it is something that should be considered. Is it that unreasonable that TD committed suicide, if she embraced the idea that CD was a prophet and she was sealed to another, like John the Baptist?

Well how do you think she did it and why no suicide note? The coroner and EMT saw no signs and they said natural causes. People who knew have also said no chance.

 

[Colorado303]

I'm wondering where Chad and Lori's attorney is in all of this? As far as I know he's been conspicuously absent every step of the way. He wasn't there on the date Lori was supposed to produce the children. Not a peep of his whereabouts when KW and LW filed for custody. Same goes for yesterday's two hour court hearing.

Surely if this was a custody dispute from the beginning, as some people claim, this is exactly what they retained him for, right? Surely, if they are "loving" and "devoted" parents as he said then he'd make his presence known and fight every step of the way for Lori and Chad's best interests now that it has become a custody dispute? Certainly he'd be there for them regardless of what this whole thing is about, right? And most certainly if he's "[looking] forward to addressing the allegations once they have moved beyond speculation and rumor" he'd be actively doing just that now that things have begun moving in the court system, right?

And still, nothing! Not a word from him since he first was retained by them and put forth his statement! And when Lori was legally obligated to bring the children to Rexburg he was conveniently absent! Not a word! Not a peep! Not even a sighting of him has been reported this entire time at any of the legal proceedings!

What gives?!?

Is he just keeping a low profile or has he vanished?

 

[KonaHonu]

the Ws have filed for custody. That's a whole different ballgame. That is one avenue where they could get in real big trouble if they don't produce those kids if/when the time comes.

Does Idaho have jurisdiction to grant custody of Arizona residents? Or are they Texas residents?

I'm not a lawyer but I have a hard time believing a state can judge custody simply on short term presence in the state. Idaho may TRY to do so but I doubt that will be the last word.

 

[Onsdag]

Is he just keeping a low profile or has he vanished?

As far as I know he's just laying low. Boy, wouldn't that be something if we ended up with another missing person in this case, and it was their attorney no less?

 

[PinkPrincessPoop]

Does Idaho have jurisdiction to grant custody of Arizona residents? Or are they Texas residents?

I'm not a lawyer but I have a hard time believing a state can judge custody simply on short term presence in the state. Idaho may TRY to do so but I doubt that will be the last word.

Good questions. I am not entirely sure.
I am also not a lawyer, so feel free (anyone) to correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, custody cases aren't necessarily straight forward like that, "You want custody but the kids don't live here, nope, case closed," I don't think that's how it works. Especially in cases where the parents/guardians are accused of neglect or abuse. I know there are special circumstances surrounding cases involving multiple states but I don't know if they apply to Idaho specifically.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Well how do you think she did it and why no suicide note? The coroner and EMT saw no signs and they said natural causes. People who knew have also said no chance.

The coroner, no, BD has only a high school education and an EMT certification. The cause of death will be determined by toxicology reports.

 

[indicolite22]

A timeline of JJ's 2019 school attendance at LIFE Academy from the new article at the link:

• Feb 5: JJ is absent from school
• Feb 11: CV visits school, says Lori went crazy, mentions the existence of a protection order against her and annouces taking JJ out of school and out of state until he was safe
• Around Feb 15: CV files for divorce from Lori
• End of February: JJ returns to school, still no Lori
• Mar 7: CV formally withdraws JJ from school, citing his stay with family in Texas
• Late June: Lori contacts school, saying they're back in Gilbert, and enrols JJ in the summer program
• Jul 11: CV is shot, the school learns about it a week later from Lori, who gives suicide as the cause
• Aug 5: Start of a new school year for JJ
• Later in August: KV and her husband call the school and ask about JJ's wellfare, since they hadn't seen him in a while
• Sep 5: Lori withdraws JJ from school via email and phone

Arizona school details new information about Lori Vallow and son JJ

 

[mrjitty]

Of course. And I also find it troubling. But troubling does not equate to convincing me that there has been a crime for which I should dispense with Constitutional rights if I were a judge. Everything you listed could be explained away with "I am protecting my kids from a situation you are not aware of involving the Woodcocks. Of course the judge will order they disclose that situation, and they will decline. So we are, at best, contempt, likely civil contempt since custody is a civil matter.

Actually the respondent can do whatever they please. They can simply refuse to say if the kids are safe and raise innuendo that they are. If they do that the court can act accordingly and conclude the kids are not safe. So she sits in judicial lockup for a while. Her attorney works all kinds of issues...jurisdiction, parental rights, judicial bias because of the spotlight. Religious persecution... He also gets her out quickly because Idaho does not lock up for civil contempt.

Once again, I think they are guilty as he11. But until there is good evidence to support murder charges, I think we are continue going to be frustrated. I would not be at all surprised if they are arrested tomorrow. Valentines Day would somehow be fun for that. But even if they are arrested, it solves nothing. People might feel better but the kids are still missing, CV, AC, and TD are still dead.

Ah ok - i think we are slightly at cross purposes.

I am analysing a civil action for custody. So yep, LV is in contempt, but the real sharp end is that if she advances no defence she would likely lose custody. Once she loses custody, and refuses to surrender JJ - then IMO Law Enforcement could act. I suspect it will be a criminal offence to prevent the custodial guardian from taking the child but i don't know the Idaho provisions.

In general this gets into 'parental kidnapping" territory. We see this a bit with parents who have lost custody "kidnapping" their kids, or in shared custody, one parent removes the kids from jurisdiction and/ or hides them to defeat the other parent.

Parental kidnapping
Parental kidnapping is when one parent takes the children and refuses to return them. [...] If one parent removes the child to a second or unknown location, in order to deny visitation of the other parent, even without a standing custody decision, it is considered parental kidnapping. Recent statistics released by the U.S. Department of Justice estimates that there were more than 350,000 parental abductions within a period of one year.

[...] Because of the harmful effects on children, parental kidnapping has been characterized as a form of child abuse.​

In the Event of Parental Kidnapping
In 1980, the federal government enacted the Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act (PKPA) to address interstate custody issues. This Act mandates that state authorities give full faith and credit to the other states’ custody orders, so long as those were made in conformity with the provisions of the PKPA. Under the PKPA, home state jurisdiction is the preferred basis of initial jurisdiction. Home state is defined as the location where the child has resided for the past six months or longer.

Emergency Child Custody​

So this case will be slightly different in that JJ was already hidden before a potential custody order - but IMO could meet the broad test, as the removal/hiding at unknown location is to defeat the custody rights of the new custodial guardian.

 

[tresir2012]

Where is Melani now by the way? As far as I can tell, Melani isn't in Hawaii. I imagine Brandon still has to worry about his life, because whoever shot at him was not apprehended.

MOO with new hubby in Rexburg maybe but we cannot sleuth.

 

[Colorado303]

iCourt Portal - Online records & payments for the Idaho courts
Case Information

CV33-20-0088 | In the Matter of the Guardianship and Conservatorship of: Joshua Vallow, A Minor Child.

02/26/2020 Status Conference

Judicial Officer
Eddins, Faren Z.

Hearing Time
9:00 AM

Comment
Telephonic

• 03/04/2020 Civil Hearing
  
  Judicial Officer
  Eddins, Faren Z.
  
  Hearing Time
  9:00 AM
  
  Cancel Reason
  Vacated
  
  Comment
  Guardianship
  
  
• 03/12/2020 Appointment of Guardian/Conservator
  
  Judicial Officer
  Eddins, Faren Z.
  
  Hearing Time
  10:00 AM

**This was added last night. If you click on the link you can read the full summary
Edit I added what is coming up. I think the 3/12/2020 is a biggie

The Civil Hearing scheduled for March 4th was cancelled, and reason given for cancellation is “vacated”. What was that hearing for, and what can we infer from it being vacated? Did petitioners drop the petition, dod Judge dismiss the case? Was that a hearing the court would expect to participate in?

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

The coroner, no, BD has only a high school education and an EMT certification. The cause of death will be determined by toxicology reports.

Keep in mind, this is a close knit community that sticks together.

 

[mrjitty]

Good questions. I am not entirely sure.
I am also not a lawyer, so feel free (anyone) to correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know, custody cases aren't necessarily straight forward like that, "You want custody but the kids don't live here, nope, case closed," I don't think that's how it works. Especially in cases where the parents/guardians are accused of neglect or abuse. I know there are special circumstances surrounding cases involving multiple states but I don't know if they apply to Idaho specifically.

So here is what I could find out about this so far.

It appears in cases of interstate disputes, the so called home state has primacy. The home state appears to be the state the child was living in for the last 6 months. Where a child has been moved out of state, the new state will defer to the homestate. That is actually similar to the UN international conventions on parental kidnapping. It is always preferable that the child be returned home for the dispute to be resolved, rather than one parent kidnapping to a new location to defeat unfavourable court orders.

In 1980, the federal government enacted the Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act (PKPA) to address interstate custody issues. Under the PKPA, home state jurisdiction is the preferred basis of initial jurisdiction. Home state is defined as the location where the child has resided for the past six months or longer.

So this case has an extra special twist as we don't know where JJ lived since he went dark in September

My highly overvalued analysis.

1. It is not disputed that JJ moved permanently form AZ to Idaho beginning September '19
2. There is no evidence before the Court that he left the state of Idaho
3. The respondent has not pleaded a different state has jurisdiction
4. 6 months have nearly elapsed since JJ left AZ
5. He was enrolled in school in Idaho and had a home there
6. Evidence of witnesses was Rex. Idaho was his domicile.
7. No out of state Court is asserting jurisdiction via a competing legal action
8. In view of no evidence to the contrary, a Court may presume he is still in state.
   
   So IMO, the Idaho Court is best placed to asset jurisdiction, and may properly do so.

"You want custody but the kids don't live here, nope, case closed,"

Right - you can't do this kind of thing in legal proceedings. If you want to assert a different state has jurisdiction, then you must argue that before the Judge. And of course the Judge will simply ask which state then? A mere statement of AZ from the lawyer is not going to be enough. You will need evidence JJ went back to AZ.

Also, you cannot argue that JJ's location is unknown, therefore no state court has jurisdiction. I suspect the Court from his last known residence is going to take jurisdiction.

 

[tresir2012]

The coroner, no, BD has only a high school education and an EMT certification. The cause of death will be determined by toxicology reports.

Do you have a link for that last statement though? They may not find evidence of any toxins and even if they do, what makes you believe it was suicide rather than foul play?

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Keep in mind, this is a close knit community that sticks together.

If that comment doesn’t ring some bells, what will? You might want to look at those currently serving your community, there you might find an answer.

 

[WhereIsWaldo]

Do you have a link for that last statement though? They may not find evidence of any toxins and even if they do, what makes you believe it was suicide rather than foul play?

Yes, I can share a link privately.

 

[tresir2012]

The Civil Hearing scheduled for March 4th was cancelled, and reason given for cancellation is “vacated”. What was that hearing for, and what can we infer from it being vacated? Did petitioners drop the petition, dod Judge dismiss the case? Was that a hearing the court would expect to participate in?

I think it has been replaced with the teleconference perhaps. If Lori or whoever has JJ call in with JJ to show he is well and in another jurisdiction, or still in Idaho, could that defeat the custody and guardian issue?

ETA, what if she shows them on the Dateline program?