Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #16

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  • #221
Totally agree.

Sorry. I feel a long late-night vent coming.
J M O..

I'm sure there are plenty of things we don't know and haven't seen about CPD's investigation, but from what we do know and have seen (body cam footage, the ride to the station, and statements) you almost HAVE to question CPD's thoroughness, and maybe even their competence.

I think many of us are confounded as to why CPD seemed to buy the self defense claim so quickly and easily (it is apparent they did so from the videos and statements). There should have been alarm bells and whistles going off in CPD cop's heads from the moment they arrived at the scene. It's baffling.

Consider the following, in totality (individually all of these have probably been discussed in one thread or another):

AC had to take the time (at some point) to go back to his room to get the gun and then return in order to shoot CV. What was CV doing while AC was going to get the gun, - waiting patiently, so he could then resume charging at him with a bat? And why would any man holding only a bat charge at a man holding a gun? That's a head-scratcher..

AC's oscar-worthy performance on the curb was pure BS - touching his head gingerly with two fingertips every 5 seconds while being particularly careful not to knock the sunglasses off his head, No visible blood. Even at the station AC basically admits the injury is no big deal. CV must not have swing a very mean bat. Was there even an injury? A bump? Did a doctor look at it? Did cops take a picture of it? Any other cop would've been expecting AC to suddenly say: "you're on candid camera!"

And the driving cop's accommodating demeanor on the recorded drive to the station was absolutely shameless. Like 2 friends going to a ballgame. And it wasn't even Lori!

Lori's stories don't match. Whether she was outside the house - or inside in the kitchen, she says she didn't see "the shot", that she only heard "the shot", yet she somehow was still able to see CV on the floor on her way out, wait... wasn't she outside? CV said she was outside... He in fact said she and Tylee had already left before the shooting happened. Which is it?

Was Lori fleeing in terror? I guess not if she was willing to send 16 yo Tylee back in to fetch a purse.. "Grab the lipstick off my dresser while you're at"

How'd she know CV was dead anyway, and not just wounded? AC would later start performing CPR (but not for another 10-15 minutes).

Why did Lori return to the scene immediately after the cops arrived? Did she know they were there? Was she driving around the block watching? If she didn't know CV was dead, and the cops hadn't arrived yet, wouldn't it have been dangerous to return to the scene with a 16 yo?

Why didn't LORI call 911?

Why did cops allow Lori to spend 95 percent of her statement (at the scene and at the station) telling her life sob story and only 5 percent talking about the actual shooting? :
"Tylee didn't like CV.. CV was mean.. CV maybe grabbed Tylee's arm... CV never gives enough notice... CV once yelled at JJ.. He's always gone... CV didn't know what it was like to raise a drug baby.. CV's never late.. CV always stays in hotels... CV was enraged... "here we go again" (before even opening the door). On and on and on..

What about the number of gunshots? Over and over and over you hear Lori or the police (especially the police) or Tylee talk about only "the shot". "The gunshot". There's never more than one shot. C'mon CPD! CV was shot TWICE. Cops on the scene had even speculated that there had perhaps been 3-4 shots fired. Why is everyone only asking and talking about ONE shot?

I know. Maybe AC shot CV once while Lori and Tylee were there, then shot him a second time after Lori and Tylee drove off!

Even Tylee's claim about the shot sounding something like a bat being struck on the concrete floor is meant to describe one shot. Why wouldn't she be describing two sounds? For both Lori and Tylee, why was the first shot (or sound) not immediately followed up by a second shot (or sound)? Bang Bang. Why were cops asleep during this discussion?

AC's recorded 911 call - the timing of the call is suspicious, and his subsequent statements about the shooting and aftermath of the shooting don't match the call. And why'd he wait so long to place the call?

Why did AC put the gun back in bedroom? Did he remove any cartridges?

Why didn't they check the hands of AC, Lori and Tylee for gunshot residue?

Did they confiscate AC's gun? Shouldn't it have been taken into evidence and kept until the investigation was complete (which I think would've meant AC wouldn't have had it on 10/2..?).

"CV's phone was on the counter then Lori had CV's phone"? She just "had it"? Then he farted and flew out the window.

AC and CV were "grappling"? They were saying things like: "get off of me" and, "ow"? That sounds more like two 6 yo boys wrestling in the back seat of a car on a long trip.

"Then AC and CV are up and CV is coming at Lori with the bat" So somehow they are just suddenly "up". Is this perhaps when Lori went outside, or into the kitchen? I guess she's still playing keep away?

Is this perhaps when AC went to get the gun? Or had Lori already gone to the bedroom and retrieved the gun, ready to hand it to AC? Questions not asked. Questions not answered (mumble mumble .. I don't know...mumble.. he always has a gun..mumble..Idk.. professional .. it happened fast.. mumble..he was enraged.. mumble .. can't remember..). "Okay. Would you like a cup of coffee"?

Where were the bullets found? Trajectory evidence? How close?

Why did AC clean CV's head? Did AC clean up CV's head before or after he called 911? Not asked?

Why did cops clean up blood? Had they already decided, while still at the scene, to call it self defense?

Why was Lori smiling while casually leaning against the car talking to the cop? Her whole demeanor should have been setting off huge alarms in a police investigator. Yet you get the feeling he's looking for an opportunity to ask her out. Hello? McFly?

Did Lori drive off with CV's phone? Why? Did Lori drive off with CV's wallet? Why?
Did she access the phone? Did cops check the last access? And where is the Micro SD card?

Did cops hear about the pool party?

Did they talk to CV's sons and learn about Lori's intentionally evasive and cavalier texts? Suspicious?

What did they think and do when they heard from the Woodcock's? Suspicious yet?

What did they think and do when they heard from Steve, CV's attorney: "If anything happens to me Lori and Alex did it" Surely suspicious by now.

What did they think and do when they read the withdrawn divorce filing (surely CV's attorney provided it to them)? Bueller? Bueller?

What did they think when they learned of AC's felony assault / tasering of JR, and his threat to kill Lori's former husband? Anybody home?

Did they think it odd that neither Lori, Tylee, or JJ attended CV's funeral?

Did they ask if CV had life insurance?
Did they learn that Lori called the life insurance company even before CV's body was cold?

How could any reasonably intelligent person, after watching and listening to AC sitting on that curb, not be very suspicious of the self defense claim? I think 95 percent of cops in America would've cuffed him on the spot

Then after the initial statements (from the poor interviews), why no follow up interviews? If it was because Lori and AC were soon in the wind, wouldn't that make you even more suspicious?

Why does it appear that there was little follow up investigation at all? Hell, why does it appear that there was little original investigation at all?

Again, I'm sure there are things we don't know, and hindsight is 20-20. And I like cops. But given all of the above, I think many non-LE / outside observers would conclude that CPD in this case was at best easily fooled or at worst, derelict in their duty. Hopefully they'll prove me wrong

Thanks for this great post!

It seems particularly strange where this is not a situation where a burglar is found in the house with a bat.

it is a domestic shooting!

As such it appears very weird not to determine the fundamentals of the shooting forensically.
 
  • #222
I think you are right. I think Lori and AC planned CV's murder. But I think Lori will get away with it. Why? Because AC is dead and almost any other evidence that would normally be used to prove conspiracy, things like contacts and so forth would be completely normal between AC and L. So unless one of them was dumb enough to write down the plan, I don't think there will ever be evidence to get past reasonable doubt. Lori certainly isn't going to talk.
But the kids might if found.
Anyone know where they have turned up in Maui?
 
  • #223
Exactly. A former semi-pro baseball player in great physical condition swings a metal baseball bat at the back of Alex's head, and he got a boo-boo so bad he had to dab at it with a paper towel? If CV was enraged and out of control and swinging a bat as LV and ACs statements say, AC would have been dead that day.
ITA I think he just hit his head on the floor when grabbing CV from behind and around the neck. CV was entitled to defend himself. Then he went and got his gun out of his case came back and shot him. Then they got the bat and put it next to him. Did they ever test the bat for DNA from Alex on the head of the bat?
 
  • #224
Posted about five times. Of course it's a logical thing to take a missing child (that is on the news) to a concert, isn't it?
That concert was only a day or so after the news initially broke. The tipper only noticed the strange behaviour. It was when she afterwards saw the missing children information that she believed it could be Tylee so tipped it in. I do not see anything wrong in this behaviour and is what LE want. If it was Tylee, the people with her may not even have known about them being reported missing at that time either.
MOO
 
  • #225
I have been wondering if the report of seeing Tylee at the concert was approved by LE to be made public.

The LE are definitely using the media to keep the pressure on L. Hense Nate being invited to break the news in Hawaii.

So I wonder if this is another case of keeping the pressure up. It could also be a way for the LE to hint at the possibile people who have Taylee that they know about them and for them to consider their options.

Panic on the possible capters part could cause them to call L or CD. Are LE monitoring Phonecalls?

Did they not use Nate because they want the public to think its less credible but actually they are trying to speak to those holding the children. Push some buttons and see what happens.

IF this is a real sighting we can expect LE to have a picture from CCTV and a possibile licence plate and therefore a name? Also payment info for the tickets.

But I think the bunker idea really has some legs. But then so does alot of what is suggested here.

Do we know how big CD following is? Are we talking 10 people, 100 people, 1000, 10000?
 
  • #226
That concert was only a day or so after the news initially broke. The tipper only noticed the strange behaviour. It was when she afterwards saw the missing children information that she believed it could be Tylee so tipped it in. I do not see anything wrong in this behaviour and is what LE want. If it was Tylee, the people with her may not even have known about them being reported missing at that time either.
MOO
Well, I guess we can stop worrying about Tylee, then. The people she is with are obviously concerned that she is entertained enough, since they went with her to a concert. Do you really think this woman saw Tylee?
 
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  • #227
I have been wondering if the report of seeing Tylee at the concert was approved by LE to be made public.

The LE are definitely using the media to keep the pressure on L. Hense Nate being invited to break the news in Hawaii.

So I wonder if this is another case of keeping the pressure up. It could also be a way for the LE to hint at the possibile people who have Taylee that they know about them and for them to consider their options.

Panic on the possible capters part could cause them to call L or CD. Are LE monitoring Phonecalls?

Did they not use Nate because they want the public to think its less credible but actually they are trying to speak to those holding the children. Push some buttons and see what happens.

IF this is a real sighting we can expect LE to have a picture from CCTV and a possibile licence plate and therefore a name? Also payment info for the tickets.

But I think the bunker idea really has some legs. But then so does alot of what is suggested here.

Do we know how big CD following is? Are we talking 10 people, 100 people, 1000, 10000?
There are sightings I think in nearly every missing persons case (some times multiple), and as far as I can tell, media doesn't need LE's approval to report any of this. Media reports what they think would get them ratings. In Lisa Irwin's case, there were multiple sightings to the point that people with a similar looking baby were stopped by police and had to prove that their baby was in fact their baby.
This particular sighting of Tylee is presumably one of many.
 
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  • #228
There are sightings I think in nearly every missing persons case (some times multiple), and as far as I can tell, media doesn't need LE's approval to report any of this. Media reports what they think would get them ratings. In Lisa Irwin's case, there were multiple sightings to the point that people with a similar looking baby were stopped by police and had to prove that their baby was in fact their baby.

Completely 100% agree. I just think its weird she has taken a while to come forward to media. It feels set up to me. Why now?

Especially as there has now been the time for LE to fully explore this "tip" to know if it was credible or not.

Is this news station usually reliable? Or is it like the Daily Mail in the UK.
 
  • #229
Completely 100% agree. I just think its weird she has taken a while to come forward to media. It feels set up to me. Why now?

Especially as there has now been the time for LE to fully explore this "tip" to know if it was credible or not.

Is this news station usually reliable? Or is it like the Daily Mail in the UK.
I think it's pretty clear the woman herself contacted the media (or media contacted her, since she appears to have been posting about it on social media). Neither FBI nor LE made any comments on this, per the articles. So it has nothing to do with LE applying any pressure, as far as I can tell.
 
  • #230
By the way the woman describes the girl as having a thinner face, lighter hair, and looking a lot like Lori. I don't think Tylee looks a lot like Lori, neither in body type nor facial features.
Lori is very thin, and Tylee, well, is not. Her face is also a lot more round than Lori. That is especially evident in videos of Tylee.
 
  • #231
I would love to see one post with all the possibilities of their funding. So far I have social security for J.J. (upon Charles’s deathChad—I wonder how long that process takes I read 30 to 60 days?); Tylee would be receiving ss from her own fathers death for another year; any inheritance Tylee received from her Joseph; Charles’s 401k/Roth/retirement investments; Tammys life insurance; Tammys retirement; Chads income from his business; living on credit... what am I missing? Just gathering possibilities, stating nothing as fact.
I think you are right. I think Lori and AC planned CV's murder. But I think Lori will get away with it. Why? Because AC is dead and almost any other evidence that would normally be used to prove conspiracy, things like contacts and so forth would be completely normal between AC and L. So unless one of them was dumb enough to write down the plan, I don't think there will ever be evidence to get past reasonable doubt. Lori certainly isn't going to talk.
Chad may.
 
  • #232
Does anyone have any speculations on why L was looking at JJ schools app up until Feb 4th?
 
  • #233
I would imagine they have been booted. Short term renters in Hawaii have essentially no rights although they can't be evicted in the traditional sense where the police help. The police will just show up, say it is a civil matter, and leave. So if they wanted to be jerks about it they could just say no and the landlord would have few options besides begging or paying them to leave. The landlord could sue but that would take years. When I rented short term here I had terms in my rental agreement stating guests could be physically removed for breaking rules. But the reality is I could not do that, not because they had tenant rights but because physically removing them would be a crime committed by me..

If they signed a long term rental lease (over 180 days) as they claim, then they would have a lot of rights. The landlord could evict them but I don't think being POIs is grounds for that. There are statutory reasons for eviction like not paying rent, violating lease terms, etc. Illegal activity or creating a nuisance are grounds. But when you look at what constitutes a nuisance it relates more to public health and morality (gambling for example).

So if they were asked to leave it pretty much had to be voluntary.
If they "lied" on the lease...say they could not prove the 30K monthly income, or other questions on the lease, ... would that give landlords rights to evict.
 
  • #234
Does anyone have any speculations on why L was looking at JJ schools app up until Feb 4th?
Probably wanting to see if anybody was saying anything about her?
 
  • #235
Well if one of them wasn’t involved in any of the deaths they should be panicked and run to the nearest LE officer. And the other probably isn’t worried about anything other than the first one talking. Which means the innocent person has every reason to be scared to death.

But if each of them are responsible for a death or two, but not all of them, they both should be nervous.

The fact that neither of them have bolted yet tells me neither are innocent and each knows the other could jam them up good. So for now they are stuck with each other until one figures out a way to kill the other while making it look like suicide.

I will almost be surprised if they don’t find Chad dead allegedly by his own hand. Typed note and all.
This is becoming my end scenario too... and will say in the note that he had nothing to do with Tammy's death...
 
  • #236
I am much less worried about them offing themselves. Do you realize they could buy tickets to countries other than US and get out? Nothing to stop them as far as I can tell. No charges, so they can leave the country to somewhere with no extradition treaty with the US. Seems like plenty of tropical islands they could pick from.
 
  • #237
Fox 10 says the dates she looked at school school app are
Sept 7
Nov 21
Jan 8
Jan 31
Feb 4
Feb 9
Feb 20

Can we add to timeline please?

Probably wanting to see if anybody was saying anything about her?

I was thinking that. But looking again at the video it seems like its notices from the school to parents. Rather than a community forum.
 
  • #238
The layout of Lori's house was a bit different than that floorplan. Lori's house had a long hallway leading to the master bedroom with an office next door. Halfway down the hall on the left, there's a shorter hallway that leads to the garage. That hallway has a half bath on one side and a laundry room on the other. Here's a shot of the hall from the Chandler Police body cam. You can see the white door to the office on the right and Lori's bedroom would be all the way at the end, also on the right.

View attachment 232791

what are the approximate rents of these houses in Chandler?
 
  • #239
LC (or whatever her initials were at the time, after husband 2?) had already spent time in Hawaii so it wouldn't be surprising if she got married in Hawaii. MOO.
And how do we know this? I didn't think Kauai came in until she was well into CV.
 
  • #240
They still didn't get their stories together. Lori and her brother aren't even telling the same story. And I doubt Lori was concerned that it was a bad thing for them to see, considering she send Tylee back in to get Lori's purse.

Yeah, that's pretty stunning, isn't it? My take upon the situation is, either Lori knew that Charles was dead and thus wasn't worried about any danger to Tylee; OR, it's a pretty clear sign that Lori doesn't care if Tylee is collateral damage (what happens if Alex and Lori's plan, hasn't yet gone according to plan?).

Maui
I may have missed if this has been talked about somewhere in the previous threads but I noticed that MB and BB have previously given a testimonial and had a photo shoot for a maui island photo co. I wonder if MB has ties to Maui or ever lived there. Maybe the photo shoot was just during a vacation in Maui but interesting.

Do we know it wasn't BB with the ties? BB clearly isn't hurting for money, father of four driving a Tesla (maybe he works for Tesla, with stock options or something. Either way, MB's not too smart, as I doubt BB will have any trouble finding another mate once his trust heals; but I digress).

Also, if BB is still considering he and the children to "be in hiding" (I'm not sure); that also argues that he has fear of people in the conspiracy who aren't Alex Cox.

Totally agree.

Sorry. I feel a long late-night vent coming.
J M O..

I'm sure there are plenty of things we don't know and haven't seen about CPD's investigation, but from what we do know and have seen (body cam footage, the ride to the station, and statements) you almost HAVE to question CPD's thoroughness, and maybe even their competence.

I think many of us are confounded as to why CPD seemed to buy the self defense claim so quickly and easily (it is apparent they did so from the videos and statements). There should have been alarm bells and whistles going off in CPD cop's heads from the moment they arrived at the scene. It's baffling.

Consider the following, in totality (individually all of these have probably been discussed in one thread or another):

AC had to take the time (at some point) to go back to his room to get the gun and then return in order to shoot CV. What was CV doing while AC was going to get the gun, - waiting patiently, so he could then resume charging at him with a bat? And why would any man holding only a bat charge at a man holding a gun? That's a head-scratcher..

AC's oscar-worthy performance on the curb was pure BS - touching his head gingerly with two fingertips every 5 seconds while being particularly careful not to knock the sunglasses off his head, No visible blood. Even at the station AC basically admits the injury is no big deal. CV must not have swing a very mean bat. Was there even an injury? A bump? Did a doctor look at it? Did cops take a picture of it? Any other cop would've been expecting AC to suddenly say: "you're on candid camera!"

And the driving cop's accommodating demeanor on the recorded drive to the station was absolutely shameless. Like 2 friends going to a ballgame. And it wasn't even Lori!

Lori's stories don't match. Whether she was outside the house - or inside in the kitchen, she says she didn't see "the shot", that she only heard "the shot", yet she somehow was still able to see CV on the floor on her way out, wait... wasn't she outside? CV said she was outside... He in fact said she and Tylee had already left before the shooting happened. Which is it?

Was Lori fleeing in terror? I guess not if she was willing to send 16 yo Tylee back in to fetch a purse.. "Grab the lipstick off my dresser while you're at"

How'd she know CV was dead anyway, and not just wounded? AC would later start performing CPR (but not for another 10-15 minutes).

Why did Lori return to the scene immediately after the cops arrived? Did she know they were there? Was she driving around the block watching? If she didn't know CV was dead, and the cops hadn't arrived yet, wouldn't it have been dangerous to return to the scene with a 16 yo?

Why didn't LORI call 911?

Why did cops allow Lori to spend 95 percent of her statement (at the scene and at the station) telling her life sob story and only 5 percent talking about the actual shooting? :
"Tylee didn't like CV.. CV was mean.. CV maybe grabbed Tylee's arm... CV never gives enough notice... CV once yelled at JJ.. He's always gone... CV didn't know what it was like to raise a drug baby.. CV's never late.. CV always stays in hotels... CV was enraged... "here we go again" (before even opening the door). On and on and on..

What about the number of gunshots? Over and over and over you hear Lori or the police (especially the police) or Tylee talk about only "the shot". "The gunshot". There's never more than one shot. C'mon CPD! CV was shot TWICE. Cops on the scene had even speculated that there had perhaps been 3-4 shots fired. Why is everyone only asking and talking about ONE shot?

I know. Maybe AC shot CV once while Lori and Tylee were there, then shot him a second time after Lori and Tylee drove off!

Even Tylee's claim about the shot sounding something like a bat being struck on the concrete floor is meant to describe one shot. Why wouldn't she be describing two sounds? For both Lori and Tylee, why was the first shot (or sound) not immediately followed up by a second shot (or sound)? Bang Bang. Why were cops asleep during this discussion?

AC's recorded 911 call - the timing of the call is suspicious, and his subsequent statements about the shooting and aftermath of the shooting don't match the call. And why'd he wait so long to place the call?

Why did AC put the gun back in bedroom? Did he remove any cartridges?

Why didn't they check the hands of AC, Lori and Tylee for gunshot residue?

Did they confiscate AC's gun? Shouldn't it have been taken into evidence and kept until the investigation was complete (which I think would've meant AC wouldn't have had it on 10/2..?).

"CV's phone was on the counter then Lori had CV's phone"? She just "had it"? Then he farted and flew out the window.

AC and CV were "grappling"? They were saying things like: "get off of me" and, "ow"? That sounds more like two 6 yo boys wrestling in the back seat of a car on a long trip.

"Then AC and CV are up and CV is coming at Lori with the bat" So somehow they are just suddenly "up". Is this perhaps when Lori went outside, or into the kitchen? I guess she's still playing keep away?

Is this perhaps when AC went to get the gun? Or had Lori already gone to the bedroom and retrieved the gun, ready to hand it to AC? Questions not asked. Questions not answered (mumble mumble .. I don't know...mumble.. he always has a gun..mumble..Idk.. professional .. it happened fast.. mumble..he was enraged.. mumble .. can't remember..). "Okay. Would you like a cup of coffee"?

Where were the bullets found? Trajectory evidence? How close?

Why did AC clean CV's head? Did AC clean up CV's head before or after he called 911? Not asked?

Why did cops clean up blood? Had they already decided, while still at the scene, to call it self defense?

Why was Lori smiling while casually leaning against the car talking to the cop? Her whole demeanor should have been setting off huge alarms in a police investigator. Yet you get the feeling he's looking for an opportunity to ask her out. Hello? McFly?

Did Lori drive off with CV's phone? Why? Did Lori drive off with CV's wallet? Why?
Did she access the phone? Did cops check the last access? And where is the Micro SD card?

Did cops hear about the pool party?

Did they talk to CV's sons and learn about Lori's intentionally evasive and cavalier texts? Suspicious?

What did they think and do when they heard from the Woodcock's? Suspicious yet?

What did they think and do when they heard from Steve, CV's attorney: "If anything happens to me Lori and Alex did it" Surely suspicious by now.

What did they think and do when they read the withdrawn divorce filing (surely CV's attorney provided it to them)? Bueller? Bueller?

What did they think when they learned of AC's felony assault / tasering of JR, and his threat to kill Lori's former husband? Anybody home?

Did they think it odd that neither Lori, Tylee, or JJ attended CV's funeral?

Did they ask if CV had life insurance?
Did they learn that Lori called the life insurance company even before CV's body was cold?

How could any reasonably intelligent person, after watching and listening to AC sitting on that curb, not be very suspicious of the self defense claim? I think 95 percent of cops in America would've cuffed him on the spot

Then after the initial statements (from the poor interviews), why no follow up interviews? If it was because Lori and AC were soon in the wind, wouldn't that make you even more suspicious?

Why does it appear that there was little follow up investigation at all? Hell, why does it appear that there was little original investigation at all?

Again, I'm sure there are things we don't know, and hindsight is 20-20. And I like cops. But given all of the above, I think many non-LE / outside observers would conclude that CPD in this case was at best easily fooled or at worst, derelict in their duty. Hopefully they'll prove me wrong

These are great questions. My primary sticking point that can't be excused, is the police officer's including in his report that he mopped up blood.

???

Did he include this because he thought he had no other option? Maybe another officer caught him doing it, or found out shortly after the fact? Since it's hugely doubtful that this is Chandler department policy to engage in crime scene cleanup, I just wonder why he'd do it and then admit to it. Did higher-ups specifically instruct him to do it? Any signs of disciplinary action as a result of it?
 
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