IDIs On This Forum?

[JMO8778]

Holdon.

Lets not start jumping up and down yet:hand: . BECAUSE the fact is because Austin and Grey are does not make it so. Secondly, the forensic scientist that Austin and Grey used came out AND SAID, well it is not absolutely positive that it is a match. In other words, they should not have said that. And Austin and Grey are paid by the Ramseys. I have posted this article several times and can find it again.

You are also quoting from 48 Hours hosted by the infamous Erin Moriarity - the same Erin who had on Michael Tracey who is not above ruining a completely innocent man's life for the sake of making money on his documentary. What is he up to 4 now on this case. He used a man in his documentary that was COMPLETELY CLEARED BY THE POLICE. He saw the documentary and called up the police and they said no we are not looking at you. So much for 48 hours and their solid as a rock research.

I don't think Erin Moriarty has an ounce of integrity anywhere in her body.
delete if I can't say that,thx.

 

[JMO8778]

Actually, the second paragraph was a really good point too. But you ignored that one. There is no other place on JonBenet's body that has DNA that matches that that was found in her underwear. None. There are however fibers from John's sweater found on JonBenet's genitals. This is another story though. But very very incriminating.

The Ramseys got downright lucky with this case. First they are in Boulder and second they actually get some DNA that was in underwear that was brand new.

yep,and JR had enough clout and money to buy off whom he needed to anyway,so I have to wonder if anyone would have ever went to prison for this crime anyway.
seems whenever we get to the truth or close to it,trouble arises,no?

 

[JMO8778]

The DNA could not have originated anywhere, as you claim. Why not?
It could only originate with one person. That person could be ANYWHERE. The question is, was this person's old, degraded DNA deposited there innocently or not. More than likely, since it is OLDER. You don't know which until you match the DNA. We should probably start in Taiwan. The fact that the DNA was old and degraded has nothing to do with when it was transferred to JBR's underwear. There's no requirement that only fresh, complete DNA can be deposited on JBR's underwear.

Are you kidding?

Since this "sexual assault" happened December 26th and that is when JB's DNA was deposited there, and we have "unsourced" DNA that the Ramseys claim is the INTRUDERS, we can assume that the intruder deposited his DNA there on December 26th. So his DNA SHOULD BE FRESH.

However, if the UNSOURCED DNA IS NOT FRESH and it is DEGRADED and MISSING MARKERS, and OLDER, we can assume, scientifically, that the DNA was in the UNDERWEAR before THAT NIGHT.

Since the underwear CAME FROM THE RAMSEY HOUSE, the "intruder" would have no other time to deposit his DNA there, so therefore, he deposited there that night. That is what the Ramseys are saying. So if it is FRESH that night, why is it degraded and "old". Because it is from someone other than an intruder. A packager, more than likely some time prior handled the underwear and left his DNA there.

This is clear Holdon. It is a science. This is not an opinion. Science is difficult to argue with.

::clapping:: well-said.
the rope and tape...the AG doll comes to mind,the one that was paid for anonymously by a MO and sent to JR's office shortly afterwards.and then there was Patsy's little trip to the hardware store where the receipt showed the same amt and the same section of something bought where the same type of cord was sold that matched the one around JB's neck.
some of the IDI's like to put a spin on things,twist them around,and call the police names and such,saying they're only after the R's (uh,now we know better than that,don't we!),but,as in all things, most ppl see the truth,as we do here.esp. given the fact we have nothing to gain from it.

 

[DeeDee249]

Let's face it, what are the chances PR bought random OTHER items from the hardware store that just happened to cost the EXACT same amout as the cord and tape? Slim to none, IMO.
As far as the unused cord/tape- I don't believe those items were bought for the purpose of using them to stage a child's murder. I do believe they were intended to be used for an innocent purpose. Didn't I read that PR sometimes wrapped her artwork up in a "sling" made of that type of cord and tape? Those things were used in the staging because they were there. The cord and tape were likely in that tote with PR's art supplies right there in the basement because she used them in carrying her paintings.

As far as the DNA- PR admits JBR did not bathe Chrismas Day and probably did not bathe Christmas Eve. The most recent bath was possibly for the R party on the 23rd. And even that is vague. That DNA under JBR's fingernails could have come from anything she did/touched in the days before her death. That's why it was "older". It had been there for days. Any DNA deposited at the time of her death (like the blood stains) would be fresh. (like the blood stains).
And let's not forget that Coroner Meyer violated yet another proper procedure by using the same nail clippers to cut each of JBR's fingernails, and NOT a new, clean pair for each finger. Any DNA on even one fingernail could easily have been transferred to other fingers.
And I thought it had been shown that the underwear DNA did NOT match the fingernail DNA.

 

[JMO8778]

Let's face it, what are the chances PR bought random OTHER items from the hardware store that just happened to cost the EXACT same amout as the cord and tape? Slim to none, IMO.

same dept.,too.

As far as the unused cord/tape- I don't believe those items were bought for the purpose of using them to stage a child's murder.

me either.

I do believe they were intended to be used for an innocent purpose. Didn't I read that PR sometimes wrapped her artwork up in a "sling" made of that type of cord and tape? Those things were used in the staging because they were there. The cord and tape were likely in that tote with PR's art supplies right there in the basement because she used them in carrying her paintings.

I read that,too.I think so,too.
I have to wonder how Patsy could ever paint again,even if I thought she was innocent.I was reading they put in a painting studio just for her,in their house in Atlanta.

As far as the DNA- PR admits JBR did not bathe Chrismas Day and probably did not bathe Christmas Eve. The most recent bath was possibly for the R party on the 23rd. And even that is vague. That DNA under JBR's fingernails could have come from anything she did/touched in the days before her death. That's why it was "older". It had been there for days. Any DNA deposited at the time of her death (like the blood stains) would be fresh. (like the blood stains).
And let's not forget that Coroner Meyer violated yet another proper procedure by using the same nail clippers to cut each of JBR's fingernails, and NOT a new, clean pair for each finger. Any DNA on even one fingernail could easily have been transferred to other fingers.
And I thought it had been shown that the underwear DNA did NOT match the fingernail DNA.

right on.you can fool some of the people some of the time..

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

How does RDI go on and on about the hardware store cord and tape purchase? No receipt exists that lists either cord OR tape, and investigators assigned to the case dont even think the cord came from there anyway.

 

[JMO8778]

How does RDI go on and on about the hardware store cord and tape purchase? No receipt exists that lists either cord OR tape, and investigators assigned to the case dont even think the cord came from there anyway.

yes they do.it was a match to what was in the same section of the hardware store that PR made a purchase from for the same price.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

yes they do.it was a match to what was in the same section of the hardware store that PR made a purchase from for the same price.

Sorry, but they went into an Army Surplus store and bought out all their cord. Never even went to the hardware store.

 

[Toltec]

Let's face it, what are the chances PR bought random OTHER items from the hardware store that just happened to cost the EXACT same amout as the cord and tape? Slim to none, IMO.
As far as the unused cord/tape- I don't believe those items were bought for the purpose of using them to stage a child's murder. I do believe they were intended to be used for an innocent purpose. Didn't I read that PR sometimes wrapped her artwork up in a "sling" made of that type of cord and tape? Those things were used in the staging because they were there. The cord and tape were likely in that tote with PR's art supplies right there in the basement because she used them in carrying her paintings.

As far as the DNA- PR admits JBR did not bathe Chrismas Day and probably did not bathe Christmas Eve. The most recent bath was possibly for the R party on the 23rd. And even that is vague. That DNA under JBR's fingernails could have come from anything she did/touched in the days before her death. That's why it was "older". It had been there for days. Any DNA deposited at the time of her death (like the blood stains) would be fresh. (like the blood stains).
And let's not forget that Coroner Meyer violated yet another proper procedure by using the same nail clippers to cut each of JBR's fingernails, and NOT a new, clean pair for each finger. Any DNA on even one fingernail could easily have been transferred to other fingers.
And I thought it had been shown that the underwear DNA did NOT match the fingernail DNA.

The duct tape and cord that Patsy bought were for her paintings. Duct tape is used to tape behind the picture and the cord was to carry the picture.

Patsy wanted to finish a painting before Christmas so it makes sense she would buy the materials in DEC.

 

[JMO8778]

Sorry, but they went into an Army Surplus store and bought out all their cord. Never even went to the hardware store.

they went to McGunkins.same place Patsy went.

 

[BBB167893]

Holdon, I've been waiting for another shot.

Sure but can you you link any of the above items to an intruder?

The title of my favorite song.

I meant that the cord and tape evidence found on JBR were new, cut from new rolls, as opposed to taken from existing used materials found in the house.

Not necessarily. Henry Lee said that the tape, at least, was used. And the housekeeper spotted that cord in the basement a few days earlier, she says.

If you want to presume the items on the receipt were tape and cord, then go ahead. Its an assumption, though, because as I understand, no description for anything was printed on the receipt, only a similarly priced item. What was the price? $2.49?

It may be an assumption, but I don't believe in coincidences when it comes to crime.

In the Danielle Van Dam case, no forensic evidence of her killer (neighbor David Westerfield) was found in the Van Dam household, although it is assumed that he came into the house and took her out of her bed (all forensic evidence in that case was found in his home and motor home and on his clothing).

The point exactly: he was in and out like that. he didn't camp out for half a day.

Wasn't there also a hair (maybe pubic?) found on JB's blanket that was never matched to anyone?

Nope. It was revealed in 2002 that it was Patsy's.

There's no requirement that only fresh, complete DNA can be deposited on JBR's underwear

Are you kidding?

If DNA was found elsewhere on JBR, on other clothing items, then it increases the likelyhood the underwear DNA was transient. If there is no similar DNA found on her other clothing items, only mixed in with blood on her underwear, then it seems far more likely to be DNA left by the perp.

Funny you mention that. Henry Lee said he found some on other pairs of underwear. It was old as well.

You are actually quoting 48 Hours. The show where no one, but no one does their research. They just blatantly go on tv and lie. You have to do better than this. 48 Hours is a joke and everyone knows it.

I'm afraid that's right.

"Augustin and Gray are convinced that the DNA sample belongs to JonBenet's killer, because of a small amount of matching DNA that also was found under the 6-year-old murder victim's fingernails."

"Right now, the DNA profile that's in hand doesn't match anyone associated with the investigation, so that would include the parents," says LaBerge, the Denver police scientist who believes this is the last and best hope to crack the case. "If the DNA never matches someone, the case, depending on the rest of the investigation, may never be solved."

That's a joke, right? You're going by what the Ramseys' hired goons have to say? Well, if it's contradictions from ACTUAL authorities you be wantin', I'm your man!

Here's what one of the investigators had to say about the DNA "evidence": "We certainly don't think it is attributable to an assailant. That's our belief. When you take everything else in total, it doesn't make sense. I've always said this is not a DNA case. It's not hinging on DNA evidence." (Rocky Mountain News, November 19, 2002.).

And

In the press conference announcing that John Mark Karr would not be charged, Mary Lacy stated: "The DNA could be an artifact. It isn’t necessarily the killer’s. In all…there’s a probability that it’s the killer’s, but it could be something else."

And Mrs. Lacy's on YOUR side, Holdon! She's as biased in their favor as you can get. Ain't that a kick in the pants?

My kung fu is strong!




investigators assigned to the case dont even think the cord came from there anyway.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It may be an assumption, but I don't believe in coincidences when it comes to crime.

.

I'm glad you said that, neither do I.

That's a joke, right? You're going by what the Ramseys' hired goons have to say? Well, if it's contradictions from ACTUAL authorities you be wantin', I'm your man!

.

I'm not sure the LaBerge guy is a 'hired goon'. He's Denver PD, right?

Again, RDI has to write off the DNA as background DNA, even though it belongs to an unidentified male, and shows up in two criminally conspicuous areas. Under her fingernails and mixed with her blood in her underwear is pretty damning forensic evidence, BTW. That is, if any suspect so far had matched the DNA, then it wouldn't be background DNA anymore.

 

[Dru]

I'm glad you said that, neither do I.



I'm not sure the LaBerge guy is a 'hired goon'. He's Denver PD, right?

Again, RDI has to write off the DNA as background DNA, even though it belongs to an unidentified male, and shows up in two criminally conspicuous areas. Under her fingernails and mixed with her blood in her underwear is pretty damning forensic evidence, BTW. That is, if any suspect so far had matched the DNA, then it wouldn't be background DNA anymore.

But Holdon, how exactly does someone deposit old, degraded DNA during the course of the commission of a crime?

Fresh DNA evidence, no matter HOW tiny a sample, will be relatively complete and will contain the maximum number of identifiable DNA markers. The police could tell that the blood stain belonged to JBR and was fresh; it had been deposited during the approximate same time period as the crime.

But the 'unknown' DNA is not fresh. It has degraded. It no longer contains some of the unique markers used to determine who it belongs to.

I suppose, in theory, it's possible that the perp sneezed into a handkerchief several days before the crime, then took the handkerchief with him to the R's, pulled it out of his pocket, and rubbed it all over the size-12 underwear he'd somehow managed to find before placing it on JBR, for the sole and exclusive purpose of leaving degraded DNA evidence behind him, just to confuse the police...

...or he simply doesn't exist.

 

[JMO8778]

The fiber evidence is damning,the pineapple is damning,the 911 call is damning...but artifact DNA is not.

 

[UKGuy]

The fiber evidence is damning,the pineapple is damning,the 911 call is damning...but artifact DNA is not.

JMO8778,

And if you ever match the dna to anyone, you then have to demonstrate that they were in Boulder on the 25/26 of December.


What if the matched suspect says that was my day off from the underwear factory where I work, I was drinking sake and singing karaoke with my buddies that night?


.

 

[rashomon]

Sorry, but they went into an Army Surplus store and bought out all their cord. Never even went to the hardware store.

They went both to the Army supply store and to McGuckin's. The type of cord found at the crime scene was on sale in both stores. Patsy had bought an item costing $ 2.29 at McGuckin's on Dec 2. The nylon cord sold in McGuckin's had the same price. It was a white Stansport 32-strand, 3/16 inch woven cord. Lab tests revealed that it was exactly the same type of cord used for the garrote and the ligatures.

 

[UKGuy]

They went both to the Army supply store and to McGuckin's. The type of cord found at the crime scene was on sale in both stores. Patsy had bought an item costing $ 2.29 at McGuckin's on Dec 2. The nylon cord sold in McGuckin's had the same price. It was a white Stansport 32-strand, 3/16 inch woven cord. Lab tests revealed that it was exactly the same type of cord used for the garrote and the ligatures.

rashomon,

Good leg work, maybe that sneaky intruder purchased the cord locally too?

Then there is the tape, thats dual colored, not exactly standard domestic use, does this mean the intruder is an electrician, or a pageant manager?


.

 

[JMO8778]

rashomon,

Good leg work, maybe that sneaky intruder purchased the cord locally too?

Then there is the tape, thats dual colored, not exactly standard domestic use, does this mean the intruder is an electrician, or a pageant manager?


.

how do you think the AG doll figures in,if at all?I've heard some speculate the tape could have came from that,and it's odd one was sent to JR's office right after the murder.
Someone said earlier LHP saw the cord in the basement a few days earlier,my guess is it was with the tote bucket and paint supplies,to be used for a painting.

 

[JMO8778]

They went both to the Army supply store and to McGuckin's. The type of cord found at the crime scene was on sale in both stores. Patsy had bought an item costing $ 2.29 at McGuckin's on Dec 2. The nylon cord sold in McGuckin's had the same price. It was a white Stansport 32-strand, 3/16 inch woven cord. Lab tests revealed that it was exactly the same type of cord used for the garrote and the ligatures.

that was great,thx.
:clap::clap:

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,

And if you ever match the dna to anyone, you then have to demonstrate that they were in Boulder on the 25/26 of December.


What if the matched suspect says that was my day off from the underwear factory where I work, I was drinking sake and singing karaoke with my buddies that night?


.

right.
then I'd say he at some point(if the dna is correct...and it's old so,who knows)...came in contact w the underwear,bf his day off.