IDIs On This Forum?

[DeeDee249]

If it had been an international incident, be assured that no defense attorney, no matter how well-conected, no DA, could keep the Feds out of it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

yes,but do they normally go after children?? If I didn't have a lick of common sense,I could believe that.
But where are all these terrorists groups that could have done this? It's weird that NOT A ONE has come fwd claiming responsiblity.B/c anytime a terrorist group commits a crime,ultimately they come fwd,flex their muscles (so to speak),and TELL the world they were the ones who did it.I think most ppl would agree,this was not an International incident.

Not knowing what happened kinda puts one in a bad position as far as ruling out this or that. There's been no revelation on the JBR case that would rule out a foreign involvement.

Besides, I think the RN author was staging a fake kidnapping for ransom. The real motive could've been to take JBR alive on a permanent basis.

I think something went wrong with the kidnapping attempt, and JBR had to be killed to prevent her from identifying her kidnappers. Please note that the murder was done with an emphasis on her staying dead. There was no resuscitating JBR with her neck tied off and her head injury.

 

[DeeDee249]

That's how it usually is with death. You tend to stay dead. (I do know at least one exception).

 

[icedtea4me]

I think something went wrong with the kidnapping attempt, and JBR had to be killed to prevent her from identifying her kidnappers.

It is stated on pg. 283 of DOI (pb version) that the butler kitchen door was found open. What prevented this intruder from carrying her down the spiral staircase, down the stairs to the butler kitchen, and then out the door? And as far as her being able to identify her kidnappers... cover her eyes. Sheesh Louise! I'll bet Homer Simpson could carry out a better kidnapping than this mystical intruder.


-Tea

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

It is stated on pg. 283 of DOI (pb version) that the butler kitchen door was found open. What prevented this intruder from carrying her down the spiral staircase, down the stairs to the butler kitchen, and then out the door? And as far as her being able to identify her kidnappers... cover her eyes. Sheesh Louise! I'll bet Homer Simpson could carry out a better kidnapping than this mystical intruder.


-Tea

Is the butler kitchen door an unlocked door to the outside?

As far as her kidnappers go, I think you're oversimplifying things. Remember that the RN wording explained why JBR is found missing from the house, not found dead in the house. The RN author even asks JR to understand why he's not getting JBR's body back. So the RN is consistent with a plan to kidnap JBR alive on a permanent basis, and have JR think she's dead.

 

[icedtea4me]

Is the butler kitchen door an unlocked door to the outside?

Yes, it is.


-Tea

 

[BOESP]

Not knowing what happened kinda puts one in a bad position as far as ruling out this or that. There's been no revelation on the JBR case that would rule out a foreign involvement.

Besides, I think the RN author was staging a fake kidnapping for ransom. The real motive could've been to take JBR alive on a permanent basis.

I think something went wrong with the kidnapping attempt, and JBR had to be killed to prevent her from identifying her kidnappers. Please note that the murder was done with an emphasis on her staying dead. There was no resuscitating JBR with her neck tied off and her head injury.

It would be fairly obvious to most people the child was dying after the head blow she received left her in a comatose condition. It has been scientifically proved she was alive after the blow was delivered and an estimate of 10 minutes to an hour is what medical practitioners estimated as the low and high end of how long she could have sustained life with the blow she received. That means the ligature strangulation came last -- it could only have been used for staging or to hurry up the dying process out of mercy, in my opinion. The mercurial Intruder you believe in isn't going to take the time to do either. There was no need to over-kill an already dying child, incapable of speaking, moving, or otherwise alerting anyone. She would have stayed just as dead if they'd left her in the wine cellar, sans blanket and all. Certainly, no terroist would take the time to wrap her in a blanket. They would toss her in the cellar and leave her like that.

No matter the motive, the body and a fake ransom note were left behind ... the killer might as well have signed their name(s).

A lot of experts in a lot of different fields disagree with your line of thinking. I can see John Mark Karr or some of his hangers-on continuing with this angle for attention, or perhaps Ramsey family members, but I see no convincing evidence for the ideas you propose.

 

[Solace]

It would be fairly obvious to most people the child was dying after the head blow she received left her in a comatose condition. It has been scientifically proved she was alive after the blow was delivered and an estimate of 10 minutes to an hour is what medical practitioners estimated as the low and high end of how long she could have sustained life with the blow she received. That means the ligature strangulation came last -- it could only have been used for staging or to hurry up the dying process out of mercy, in my opinion. The mercurial Intruder you believe in isn't going to take the time to do either. There was no need to over-kill an already dying child, incapable of speaking, moving, or otherwise alerting anyone. She would have stayed just as dead if they'd left her in the wine cellar, sans blanket and all. Certainly, no terroist would take the time to wrap her in a blanket. They would toss her in the cellar and leave her like that.

No matter the motive, the body and a fake ransom note were left behind ... the killer might as well have signed their name(s).

A lot of experts in a lot of different fields disagree with your line of thinking. I can see John Mark Karr or some of his hangers-on continuing with this angle for attention, or perhaps Ramsey family members, but I see no convincing evidence for the ideas you propose.

I concur.

 

[coloradokares]

It would be fairly obvious to most people the child was dying after the head blow she received left her in a comatose condition. It has been scientifically proved she was alive after the blow was delivered and an estimate of 10 minutes to an hour is what medical practitioners estimated as the low and high end of how long she could have sustained life with the blow she received. That means the ligature strangulation came last -- it could only have been used for staging or to hurry up the dying process out of mercy, in my opinion. The mercurial Intruder you believe in isn't going to take the time to do either. There was no need to over-kill an already dying child, incapable of speaking, moving, or otherwise alerting anyone. She would have stayed just as dead if they'd left her in the wine cellar, sans blanket and all. Certainly, no terroist would take the time to wrap her in a blanket. They would toss her in the cellar and leave her like that.

No matter the motive, the body and a fake ransom note were left behind ... the killer might as well have signed their name(s).

A lot of experts in a lot of different fields disagree with your line of thinking. I can see John Mark Karr or some of his hangers-on continuing with this angle for attention, or perhaps Ramsey family members, but I see no convincing evidence for the ideas you propose.

Ditto!!

 

[JMO8778]

Not knowing what happened kinda puts one in a bad position as far as ruling out this or that. There's been no revelation on the JBR case that would rule out a foreign involvement.

don't you think even those in D.C. would be in on investigating it if that were the case?

Besides, I think the RN author was staging a fake kidnapping for ransom. The real motive could've been to take JBR alive on a permanent basis.

what would be the purpose of that?

I think something went wrong with the kidnapping attempt, and JBR had to be killed to prevent her from identifying her kidnappers. Please note that the murder was done with an emphasis on her staying dead. There was no resuscitating JBR with her neck tied off and her head injury.

cpr would be kind of useless then,yes.

 

[JMO8778]

I concur.

me too.good post,BOESP.

 

[JMO8778]

Is the butler kitchen door an unlocked door to the outside?

As far as her kidnappers go, I think you're oversimplifying things. Remember that the RN wording explained why JBR is found missing from the house, not found dead in the house. The RN author even asks JR to understand why he's not getting JBR's body back. So the RN is consistent with a plan to kidnap JBR alive on a permanent basis, and have JR think she's dead.

no,the RN says they stand a 100% chance of getting her back if they don't talk to anyone.
I can believe your scenario about as much as I believe the 'SFF' is hiding out with old Binny somewhere,giving him a backscratch.
perhaps they're cave dwellers,too?

..the whole point is moot anyway,I think it was an excuse concocted by the parents so that LE,family,friends,etc. would believe her remains were 'denied',when truth is,they(one or both) committed the crime.

 

[coloradokares]

Since the receipts don't specify the item description, then I doubt it specifies the department either. Do you have a source, or is this just a claim?



Did JR, PR, or somebody say they used the same tape and cord for the artwork? I mean they could've just said they bought the items at the hardware store and the intruder just used them.

Where did this transportation of artwork idea come from, was it just made up?

I doubt you will believe me but since I have shopped McGuckins for years they used to have a department number on everything, I doubt I still have anyhing I can that I can prove that with so how about you say I don't know I'll say I lived there before the murder after the murder and I still shop at McGuckins It they dont have it anywhere else every one knows McGuckins will have it.

 

[DeeDee249]

To take her alive with the intent to keep her permanently and still ask for ranson are polar opposite strategies. If keeping her was what was desired- you'd never even leave a ransom note. The last thing you'd want was any further contact with the parents. That paltry sum asked for wouldn't be worth the risk of getting caught. This RN writer was an educated person- they didn't live in a cave. EVERYONE knows parents call police.
Loot at the Madeline kidnapping. No RN, not a word ever again from whoever took her. Though the kidnappers in that case may have killed her the day they took her (like so many other little girls), they neither needed nor wanted further contact with the parents. The child was the prize. Same with Elizabeth Smart. Polly Klaas. Etc.
Look at the Samantha Runnion case- she was taken, sexually assaulted, and killed- and her poor body left nude and profanely displayed on a roadside. No RN. THAT is what a stranger kidnapping looks like. I don't know of any case where a kidnapped, sexually assaulted and then murdered child was redressed. After they had served the purpose for which they were kidnapped, they were discarded. None that I know of was found dead in their own home, having been taken while the rest of the family was there.
Most of these childred were taken for sexual purposes. JBR was "only a little bit molested". (Nedra's words, not mine). If it had been a pedophile rape, she would have had much more severe injuries and would never have been redressed, ESPECIALLY if it was someone who wanted to hurt her father.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

To take her alive with the intent to keep her permanently and still ask for ranson are polar opposite strategies. If keeping her was what was desired- you'd never even leave a ransom note. The last thing you'd want was any further contact with the parents. That paltry sum asked for wouldn't be worth the risk of getting caught. This RN writer was an educated person- they didn't live in a cave. .

The ransom, along with most of the ransom note, were all geared to JR and how he was going to get money and put it in a bag, and not call the cops. Meanwhile the perp gets away.

 

[Toltec]

I strongly object to that kind of language use on the forum. I also disagree with the post, however there in no reason at all to lower the bar to tolerate such lanugauge.

Excuse me? This was Nedra's statement...I'm just repeating it. I don't know how old you are....if you are underage....this is the real world. I'm sure you've heard that word before so I don't apologize.

 

[coloradokares]

Excuse me? This was Nedra's statement...I'm just repeating it. I don't know how old you are....if you are underage....this is the real world. I'm sure you've heard that word before so I don't apologize.

I think had you not said that this was Nedras statement not yours I would have had to have had rather a hissy fit. This thread IDIs on this forum is not working for me and I even wote to the mods telling of the difficulties I am having with it. BOESP even tried to help me change it in settings I must have missed a page of posts yet again and did not realize or recognize that these were Nedras words not some strange outburst on your part. I am embarrased . I am verifiably in my past the mid fifties, so seen as I saw it and as a christian I am always offended at such language. Now I am offended at Nedras language not yours. Had it been your words rest assured that no apology would have been forthcoming . That type of language will never rest with me its totally inappropriate. I am sorry and do sincerely apologize for the misunderstanding. I guess one thing is clear I dont stand for swearing around me.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I doubt you will believe me but since I have shopped McGuckins for years they used to have a department number on everything, I doubt I still have anyhing I can that I can prove that with so how about you say I don't know I'll say I lived there before the murder after the murder and I still shop at McGuckins It they dont have it anywhere else every one knows McGuckins will have it.

Of course I believe you, but even if there was a department number, there wasn't an item listed. If cord or black duct tape were listed as an item on a hardware store receipt, and that item matched forensically what was left on JBR, then you'd have a case.

 

[coloradokares]

Of course I believe you, but even if there was a department number, there wasn't an item listed. If cord or black duct tape were listed as an item on a hardware store receipt, and that item matched forensically what was left on JBR, then you'd have a case.

Ever heard the phrase that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck has webbed feets and feathers ? This was uncannily from the exact departments in the exact individual amounts and the exact total purchase. Would not a better defense be so she used these exact items to transport her paintings? Denial seems ever so much more burdensome. JMHO Its like denying the pineapple. JMHO

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Ever heard the phrase that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck has webbed feets and feathers ? This was uncannily from the exact departments in the exact individual amounts and the exact total purchase. Would not a better defense be so she used these exact items to transport her paintings? Denial seems ever so much more burdensome. JMHO Its like denying the pineapple. JMHO

Apply that reasoning to the RN and you get an intruder.