IDIs On This Forum?

  • #441
[/color]

My responses are in red.

Exactly! I couldn't imagine anybody just leaving their daughter's dead body under the Christmas tree...and then making a beeline to the car to just leave her there.



I believe that his intentions were to flee the state and then the country.

me too.once they got to Atlanta,anything could happen.and they were still considering it when PP raided the house,and got the passports and mementos,etc.I think talking to their lawyers convinced them it wasn't necessary at that point,though.
And when they said they didn't have a plan to get back to Atlanta after the GJ made it's decision...I think they didn't have a plan b/c they thought they wouldn't GET to go back...and thus already had a plan in place to skip the country.
One of the reasons I think JR is guilty in some way is b/c I don't think he would even consider skipping the country over something Patsy did,and did alone,if all he was doing is covering for her..I think he'd have turned her in first.He had too much to loose here..esp. his older kids and money,investments,etc.
 
  • #442
  • #443
THOMAS

THOMAS: Actually, I will look you right in the eye. I think you're good for this…


that was the best line in the whole transcript !

JMO - it should make folks wonder why Steve Thomas was not required to retract or redact what he said in his book if the settlement between the Ramseys vs Thomas was intended to make Thomas look as if he made false claims. :rolleyes:
 
  • #444
I think it was because the claims were NOT false. If they had been, Steve Thomas would certainly have been required to either redact it or add a disclaimer that it was not true.
 
  • #445
me too.once they got to Atlanta,anything could happen.and they were still considering it when PP raided the house,and got the passports and mementos,etc.I think talking to their lawyers convinced them it wasn't necessary at that point,though.
And when they said they didn't have a plan to get back to Atlanta after the GJ made it's decision...I think they didn't have a plan b/c they thought they wouldn't GET to go back...and thus already had a plan in place to skip the country.
One of the reasons I think JR is guilty in some way is b/c I don't think he would even consider skipping the country over something Patsy did,and did alone,if all he was doing is covering for her..I think he'd have turned her in first.He had too much to loose here..esp. his older kids and money,investments,etc.

I know that Steve Thomas thinks that John is innocent in all of this, but I don't believe that at all. I don't think that there would have been any way in the world for Patsy, to have pulled this off alone. I think that their original plan, when they left JB alone under the Christmas tree...was to leave that house, and to NEVER, EVER come back. John had lots of money, their material things could have been replaced. I think that they were just going to leave it all behind....including their baby girl. I believe that the minute that Patsy and John finished killing her off...they distanced themsleves from her, as though she never existed at all. I think that was their way of coping with what they had done.
 
  • #446
"Cops wanted to ask tougher, deeper questions - and on the first day of 1997 our topics would have included a long ransom note written in a familiar hand, JonBenét's bed-wetting, a broken paintbrush used to make a garrote, pineapple found in a bowl and in the victim's stomach, and what looked like traces of semen on the victim."

If John, as Steve Thomas says....was innocent of the crime, but protecting his wife. Where did this supposed semen come from? Was this ever tested? Was it actually ...in FACT semen?? If so, where the heck did it come from???
 
  • #447
I think it was because the claims were NOT false. If they had been, Steve Thomas would certainly have been required to either redact it or add a disclaimer that it was not true.


Exactly!!!
 
  • #448
20 THOMAS HANEY: Okay. Had you
21 called the doctor or had she, you know, or do
22 you know which?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I think -- after we
24 found JonBenet and all that?

I find this odd. "....after we found JonBenet and all that?"

And all that?? Just seems like a weird choice of words to me....to come after the words...after we found JonBenet. Like..."and all that stuff"....that sounds like what she means.
 
  • #449
I know that this has been discussed here before....but, she says that she didn't inspect JB before putting her in the bed, and she didn't see any marks on her...but that she had read or heard that there was a red heart on her hand or forehead. Well...geez....I believe that if it had of been on her forehead....Patsy would have noticed that. If I am not mistaken...and I will have to go back and look at it again, I believe that John says the same thing in HIS interview. I need to confirm it though....

14 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I noticed.
15 THOMAS HANEY: Any scratches, cuts,
16 bruises?
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Not that I noticed.
18 THOMAS HANEY: How about, did she
19 have any marks from markers or anything like
20 that?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't notice
22 anything that night when she went to bed. And,
23 you know, I know there was a red heart on her
24 hand or her forehead. I don't know when that --
25 I mean, you know, I didn't -- I didn't inspect
0195
1 her when I put her to bed.
 
  • #450
"Cops wanted to ask tougher, deeper questions - and on the first day of 1997 our topics would have included a long ransom note written in a familiar hand, JonBenét's bed-wetting, a broken paintbrush used to make a garrote, pineapple found in a bowl and in the victim's stomach, and what looked like traces of semen on the victim."

If John, as Steve Thomas says....was innocent of the crime, but protecting his wife. Where did this supposed semen come from? Was this ever tested? Was it actually ...in FACT semen?? If so, where the heck did it come from???

Snippet from the Boulder Newspaper The Dailey Camera:

"It was also during the autopsy that Arndt used a florescent black light to see if there was any trace of semen or seminal fluid. While Arndt noted the possibility of such fluids on the girl's upper and inner right and left thighs, it later was determined no such fluids were on the girl's body"

I think at this point it's common knowledge that no semen was found on JBR's body.
 
  • #451
Snippet from the Boulder Newspaper The Dailey Camera:

"It was also during the autopsy that Arndt used a florescent black light to see if there was any trace of semen or seminal fluid. While Arndt noted the possibility of such fluids on the girl's upper and inner right and left thighs, it later was determined no such fluids were on the girl's body"

I think at this point it's common knowledge that no semen was found on JBR's body.

Although the tests did not show any semen, it DID show blood. Even in the pro-R PMPT it's stated that there was evidence of blood that had been wiped off on the pubic and thigh area.
 
  • #452
The Daily Camera seems to be very much IDI-leaning. To state that "no such fluids were found to be on the body" is patently FALSE. And I've seen other misleading statements from that paper.
There was NO semen, but there WAS blood.
 
  • #453
Snippet from the Boulder Newspaper The Dailey Camera:

"It was also during the autopsy that Arndt used a florescent black light to see if there was any trace of semen or seminal fluid. While Arndt noted the possibility of such fluids on the girl's upper and inner right and left thighs, it later was determined no such fluids were on the girl's body"

I think at this point it's common knowledge that no semen was found on JBR's body.

Thanks...this is what I thought.
 
  • #454
The Daily Camera seems to be very much IDI-leaning. To state that "no such fluids were found to be on the body" is patently FLASE. And I've seen other misleading statements from that paper.
There was NO semen, but there WAS blood.

From what I understand...the light that was used...was used only to detect semen. Guess they used a different type of light, to detect blood. We all know that she bled and was wiped down. Now if there HAD of been semen...then that would fit more with the intruder theory...IMO. But, since there wasn't any...it...IMO...points to at first ...an accidental injury, caused by Patsy and thought to be fatal.....so they staged a coverup, actually finishing her off.
 
  • #455
JBR was found dead in her house, and there were three other occupants there the same night.

Right.

They fall under an 'umbrella of suspicion' (not a criminal science term). They were under no umbrella until someone said they were. There was no 'smoking gun'.

Nothing by itself. When you take everything into focus, you don't need one.

RN author states there was a kidnapping. The crime appears to be a botched kidnapping turned murder, since JBR was found dead. RDI, having presumed guilt, declares the RN 'bogus' and 'fake'.

I'm afraid you're wrong there, sir. There was an FBI agent there at the scene THAT MORNING who looked the note over and said it was a fake. His name is Ronald Walker.

JBR appears to have met an unusually violent end for a child murder victim. RDI, unable to find a motive for such a killing, declares the crime scene 'bogus' ,'faked', or 'staged'.

"Appears" is the correct word. And appearances can be deceiving. Indeed, in this case, they are meant to be. But, if that's too cryptic, let's get literal here. Norm Early is the former DA of Denver. He commented on the need for a convincing garroting staging. I quote:

"You don't want the coroner to come back and say, 'this strangulation couldn't have killed someone.' So you pull it deeper and deeper."

And that's just for openers.

In reality the evidence doesn't fit the RDI scenario, does it.

If it didn't, Holdon, there wouldn't still be so many of us after a decade, especially among the police and FBI of this country.

IMO if any R confessed, I would'nt believe their confession because:
no history of even minor domestic violence or abuse.

Oh, really? Let's go to my notes:

"In August, the Boulder police department contacted Dr. John McCann, one of the nation’s leading experts on child sexual abuse. McCann had agreed to assist the police department in determining if JonBenet had been a victim of sexual abuse during or before her murder. McCann was sent the autopsy report and photos. According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet. There was a three dimensional thickening from inside to outside on the inferior hymeneal rim with a bruise apparent on the external surface of the hymen and a narrowing of the hymeneal rim from the edge of the hymen to where it attaches to the muscular portion of the vaginal openings. At the narrowing area, there appeared to be very little if any hymen present. There was also exposure of the vaginal rugae, a structure of the vagina which is normally covered by an intact hymen. The hymeneal orifice measured one centimeter which is abnormal or unusual for this particular age group and is further evidence of prior sexual abuse with a more recent injury as shown by the bruised area on the inferior hymeneal rim. A generalized increase in redness of the tissues of the vestibule was apparent, and small red flecks of blood were visible around the perineum and the external surface of the genitalia."

And again, that's just for openers.

no motive for killing JBR.

Who says there has to be one? But I wonder...

no evidence of any accident/coverup scenario.

Would you like a list?

they called police at the appropriate time, without a confession.

Did they have a choice?

But isn't 'someone trying to disguise their handwriting' sortof a catchall phrase? IOW something that could be applied to any suspect whose handwriting didnt exactly match?

It depends on who you ask. No BS.

Let me get this straight: Dissimilarities are given a pass, in handwriting analysis. Really?

Again, depends on who you ask. Some examiners are better at spotting disguise than others.

The funny part of the handwriting analysis was where the analyst notes the rise in the pen stroke to the top of the letter ''t' from the previous letter, is the same on both PR and the RN author, as if its significant.

Actually, the analysis was supposed to show the sheer NUMBER of similarities, not just one or two.

Everybody does that.

News to me.

IMO the actual perps handwriting is going to be a dead ringer, because in the last section of the RN, the handwriting is smooth and more relaxed. It isn't disguised at all.

You know, that's exactly what the experts who pegged her said! Funny how that worked out.

'Fleeing the state' is your characterization of events, and 'fleeing' implies fleeing LE.

They left and refused to talk to LE for four months. To paraphrase Forrest Gump, fleeing is as fleeing does.

IDI should demand equal time, huh.

It's funny you say that. I've been thinking about a certain dream project of mine, of late. Say, a panel discussion on one of these tv crime shows. Maybe a three-on-three deal. Three on this side, three on that side. But who? Any ideas, anybody? I mean, it probably wouldn't budge anyone of us, but the average person might find it enlightening.

"What you usually will find, with most IDI's...is that they have never even read the transcripts."

Really? Do you have statistics for that?

I have some personal experience there!

just bc they didn't got to prison doesn't mean they aren't guilty.

Right. "not enough evidence" is a far cry from "didn't do it."
 
  • #456
Right.



Nothing by itself. When you take everything into focus, you don't need one.



I'm afraid you're wrong there, sir. There was an FBI agent there at the scene THAT MORNING who looked the note over and said it was a fake. His name is Ronald Walker.



"Appears" is the correct word. And appearances can be deceiving. Indeed, in this case, they are meant to be. But, if that's too cryptic, let's get literal here. Norm Early is the former DA of Denver. He commented on the need for a convincing garroting staging. I quote:

"You don't want the coroner to come back and say, 'this strangulation couldn't have killed someone.' So you pull it deeper and deeper."

And that's just for openers.



If it didn't, Holdon, there wouldn't still be so many of us after a decade, especially among the police and FBI of this country.



Oh, really? Let's go to my notes:

"In August, the Boulder police department contacted Dr. John McCann, one of the nation’s leading experts on child sexual abuse. McCann had agreed to assist the police department in determining if JonBenet had been a victim of sexual abuse during or before her murder. McCann was sent the autopsy report and photos. According to McCann, examination findings that indicate chronic sexual abuse include the thickness of the rim of the hymen, irregularity of the edge of the hymen, the width or narrowness of the wall of the hymen, and exposure of structures of the vagina normally covered by the hymen. His report stated that there was evidence of prior hymeneal trauma as all of these criteria were seen in the post mortem examination of JonBenet. There was a three dimensional thickening from inside to outside on the inferior hymeneal rim with a bruise apparent on the external surface of the hymen and a narrowing of the hymeneal rim from the edge of the hymen to where it attaches to the muscular portion of the vaginal openings. At the narrowing area, there appeared to be very little if any hymen present. There was also exposure of the vaginal rugae, a structure of the vagina which is normally covered by an intact hymen. The hymeneal orifice measured one centimeter which is abnormal or unusual for this particular age group and is further evidence of prior sexual abuse with a more recent injury as shown by the bruised area on the inferior hymeneal rim. A generalized increase in redness of the tissues of the vestibule was apparent, and small red flecks of blood were visible around the perineum and the external surface of the genitalia."

And again, that's just for openers.



Who says there has to be one? But I wonder...



Would you like a list?



Did they have a choice?



It depends on who you ask. No BS.



Again, depends on who you ask. Some examiners are better at spotting disguise than others.



Actually, the analysis was supposed to show the sheer NUMBER of similarities, not just one or two.



News to me.



You know, that's exactly what the experts who pegged her said! Funny how that worked out.



They left and refused to talk to LE for four months. To paraphrase Forrest Gump, fleeing is as fleeing does.



It's funny you say that. I've been thinking about a certain dream project of mine, of late. Say, a panel discussion on one of these tv crime shows. Maybe a three-on-three deal. Three on this side, three on that side. But who? Any ideas, anybody? I mean, it probably wouldn't budge anyone of us, but the average person might find it enlightening.



I have some personal experience there!
Right. "not enough evidence" is a far cry from "didn't do it."
:clap:

:clap::clap:

nice how you can always count on the heros of this forum :)
 
  • #457
The FBI didn't first recognize the RN as a fake, and then suspect the R's, as you imply. They said the same day 'look at the family', right?

It seems RDI was decided on the first day. Then, the RN was considered fake, and the crime scene declared staged, right? But isn't this putting the carriage before the horse?


-------------------------------------

I'm sorry, but I wasn't able to find any Dr. McCann autopsy report. Is there a source that shows this physician even attended JBR at any point? Or is this another expert called in after the fact to look at second hand information?
 
  • #458
The FBI didn't first recognize the RN as a fake, and then suspect the R's, as you imply.

they did indeed.and one of them said,after reading it...'you're going to be finding her body'.he knew it was a ruse,designed to throw LE off track.


They said the same day 'look at the family', right?

that same morning,in fact.b/f she was found.
 
  • #459
they did indeed.and one of them said,after reading it...'you're going to be finding her body'.he knew it was a ruse,designed to throw LE off track.



that same morning,in fact.b/f she was found.
Who said "you're going to be finding her body' and to whom was it said? Source,, please?

Anyway, they could've still concluded RDI and declared the RN fake before JBR was found. Its still carriage before horse.
 
  • #460
Patsy couldn't spit out a coherent sentence if she tired.
Have you ever heard such rambling. I'm surprised she didn't confess.
 

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