If Misty were to lead LE to Haleigh....

[cyberborg]

I feel that Shell Harbor was a ruse, that they thought they were being clever in that if HaLeigh was dumped there with the gators there would be no evidence and so LE would just buy the story.

I don't think they expected LE to put so much effort into the search and although we never got a media statement on the search and testing results ... I don't believe that LE was too convinced. They searched so thoroughly that they found human remains of natives from the area but nothing at all of HaLeigh?

It seems there is belief that HaLeigh died in that area but not so much that the body was dumped in the St. Johns IMO.

 

[justus4all]

Exactly!!!

Why didn't Ron rush over to the Croslin's on Tyler to check HaLeigh wasn't there?

Why didn't Ron race to the river since there had been a prior incident with HaLeigh almost drowning.

Why didn't Ron want to cooperate with 911 and give them the information they needed to respond and search.

Ron wanted LE there NOW but he'd still have to spend time describing what HaLeigh was wearing and her details to LE. That time was best spent during the 911 call so LE could be ready to go as soon as they arrived.

Ron had better people to call ... who? He never called in anyone else. LE were the most important people to talk to ... so why the dramatics?

Sure you can argue that he was distraught and not acting rationally, 'ugly coping' BUT I just see it as 'over-acting' -- that he was both truly grieving over the death of HaLeigh and what had happened as well as trick LE.

I have freaked out but Ron's actions were more the actions of someone trying desperately to set a script in motion and make sure Misty did not screw up ... he was very stressed.

underlined and bolded by me

You just made a comment that made me think of another reason Ron was stressed...

Perhaps the plan WAS...for Misty to have ALREADY made the 911 call JUST before he got home...and the fact she didn't..until AFTER he arrived, now he had to deal with talking to the operator and the questions...I believe that stressed him having to deal with the call//

I believe if Misty had made the call...before Ron got home..the operator would have heard Misty FRANTIC, UPSET, SOUNDING LIKE SHE JUST WOKE UP....and more CONVINCING...than Ron was....Ron didn't sound frantic...Ron didn't sound Upset...Ron sounds annoyed and angry...The call sounds more staged with Ron participating in it.

I have always felt Ron was more angry with Misty because she hadn't called yet...including also he was trying to follow a script...
imo

 

[suspicious1]

Here's something I have been thinking about....

Misty wanted GMFlo to call the Cummings and let them know that LE would be searching near the StJohns dock....WHY?

I am one who believes that Misty is afraid of the Cummings...so why would she want them to know that the dock was being searched?

1. did Misty just decide to tell the Cummings the truth...that Haleigh was killed and/or dumped in this area?

2. was Misty trying to give the Cummings a heads up, trying to remain on their side good because they all knew how significant this area was?

3. was this a set-up by Misty so LE could watch the Cummings next move?

What reason would Misty have to "warn" the Cummings of this area being searched?

I don't think Misty felt guilty and had her "godly moment"....deciding to just give in and tell the Cummings where they could find Haleigh's remains...I also don't think that this was a set up by Misty to lure the Cummings to that area....because that would mean that she had implicated them.....and I feel that we would've been a lot further in this case had Misty done just that....It appears Misty is still hiding the truth at least prior to her sentencing hearing...so IMO, Misty was trying to give them a heads up....but a heads up for what? after that phone call Teresa and GMSykes went to "search" this area themselves..a day before LE got there.....but then they turn around...the day after and show up at the search site trying to get answers and was asked to leave....as if they had "no clue" as to why LE was searching this area....when clearly they knew why LE was there....they wanted to appear as if they didn't know what was going on and "wanted answers"...

These phone calls are recorded....so did LE set Misty up? were they listening in on those calls and found out about this little bit of information?...How long would it take for LE to put a tap on GMFlo's phone? I don't know..Could LE have heard the conversation between GMFlo and GMSykes too? Did LE have someone watching this area to see if these two women would show up? Right after this search.....LE said they had multiple persons of interest and one would be a surprise to everyone....

I know some want to justify WHY GMSykes and Teresa showed up before the actual search to do their own searching...I understand that BUT....my problem lies with WHY MISTY FELT THE NEED TO "WARN" THEM?

If Haleigh was in this area...that means that Misty knew Haleigh was there....and it would also mean that Teresa and GMSykes knew that Haleigh was there.....and if Tommy took LE to this area...that means that Tommy knows that Haleigh was there too...WTH is going on here...?

So if they all thought that Haleigh was in this area....why didn't LE find her? Where did she go?

 

[cyberborg]

It can even make you wonder if Gma Flo was trying to break open the case.

Gma Sykes acknowledged the communications and calls between the two when there was the head-to-head confrontation on NG.

Gma Sykes did not bite though or react other than to pull faces at some of the stories that Gma Flo was floating.

Was Gma Flo trying to push Gma Sykes buttons to get a reaction and was LE watching to see which stories Gma Sykes dismissed versus those/any that cause a reaction.

There was something breaking at that time and while I don't think Gma Flo and LE were working in cooperation, as you say, LE could have been priming Misty and Misty was calling Gma Flo -- giving LE the desired effect.

That's maybe why LE believe the area is correct but not so much the actual dock? There were these reactions that stirred things up for a while.

 

[suspicious1]

Cyber, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that LE was working with GMFlo....could they have just tapped her phone without her knowing?....that's what I meant...I'm sorry for the confusion...

 

[justus4all]

Here's something I have been thinking about....

Misty wanted GMFlo to call the Cummings and let them know that LE would be searching near the StJohns dock....WHY?

I am one who believes that Misty is afraid of the Cummings...so why would she want them to know that the dock was being searched?

1. did Misty just decide to tell the Cummings the truth...that Haleigh was killed and/or dumped in this area?

2. was Misty trying to give the Cummings a heads up, trying to remain on their side good because they all knew how significant this area was?

3. was this a set-up by Misty so LE could watch the Cummings next move?

What reason would Misty have to "warn" the Cummings of this area being searched?

I don't think Misty felt guilty and had her "godly moment"....deciding to just give in and tell the Cummings where they could find Haleigh's remains...I also don't think that this was a set up by Misty to lure the Cummings to that area....because that would mean that she had implicated them.....and I feel that we would've been a lot further in this case had Misty done just that....It appears Misty is still hiding the truth at least prior to her sentencing hearing...so IMO, Misty was trying to give them a heads up....but a heads up for what? after that phone call Teresa and GMSykes went to "search" this area themselves..a day before LE got there.....but then they turn around...the day after and show up at the search site trying to get answers and was asked to leave....as if they had "no clue" as to why LE was searching this area....when clearly they knew why LE was there....they wanted to appear as if they didn't know what was going on and "wanted answers"...

These phone calls are recorded....so did LE set Misty up? were they listening in on those calls and found out about this little bit of information?...How long would it take for LE to put a tap on GMFlo's phone? I don't know..Could LE have heard the conversation between GMFlo and GMSykes too? Did LE have someone watching this area to see if these two women would show up? Right after this search.....LE said they had multiple persons of interest and one would be a surprise to everyone....

I know some want to justify WHY GMSykes and Teresa showed up before the actual search to do their own searching...I understand that BUT....my problem lies with WHY MISTY FELT THE NEED TO "WARN" THEM?

If Haleigh was in this area...that means that Misty knew Haleigh was there....and it would also mean that Teresa and GMSykes knew that Haleigh was there.....and if Tommy took LE to this area...that means that Tommy knows that Haleigh was there too...WTH is going on here...?

All great great questions suspicious...

I have a question that might cause an answer...

How did Misty know there was going to be a search near the St. John's dock??

who told her...the LE?...

IMO...if it was the LE that TOLD Misty they were planning a search..why would the LE have a reason to tell ANYONE..when and where they were going to search...

If the LE told Misty that...IMO...they wanted to see what she would do with that information...who she would let know that information..and what would happen when she told that information..IF TRUE..they let her know..IMO..they were watching to see what would happen...probably under survelliance..the area preparing to be searched...

IMO the LE can tap....ANYTHING...and you would never know it...

I hope I haven't confused you more...These are all my own opinions..FWIW

 

[suspicious1]

All great great questions suspicious...

I have a question that might cause an answer...

How did Misty know there was going to be a search near the St. John's dock??

who told her...the LE?...

IMO...if it was the LE that TOLD Misty they were planning a search..why would the LE have a reason to tell ANYONE..when and where they were going to search...

If the LE told Misty that...IMO...they wanted to see what she would do with that information...who she would let know that information..and what would happen when she told that information..IF TRUE..they let her know..IMO..they were watching to see what would happen...probably under survelliance..the area preparing to be searched...

IMO the LE can tap....ANYTHING...and you would never know it...

I hope I haven't confused you more...These are all my own opinions..FWIW

Good thinking, Justus4all...That's taking it one step further....That makes me wonder...How did Misty come by this information? Who all knew about the search prior? LE....Tommy....Tommy's lawyer-Werter.....Steve Brown....am I missing someone maybe? Out of this bunch who would tell Misty? LE? Maybe they did tell her....but why would they do that? The only thing I can think of is what you have stated....they wanted to see what Misty would do with that information....and they waited...

But if LE did that...that would mean that they had a feeling that Misty would warn someone else....they just wanted to know WHO that someone else would be...they may have already suspected that Misty would give the Cummings a heads up....especially if they thought that Misty was covering for them...couldn't this "pre-search" from the Cummings be used against them if charges were filed? Could it be considered as evidence against them?

 

[suspicious1]

Ok but wait a minute...

Tommy didn't meet with LE until that Monday right? IIRC, Tommy and his attorney met with LE that afternoon and took them to the dock later on that evening....Monday..

IIRC...Misty told GMFlo to call the Cummings on Sunday....how did Misty find out Sunday if LE didn't know until Monday? Any thoughts?

 

[justus4all]

Good thinking, Justus4all...That's taking it one step further....That makes me wonder...How did Misty come by this information? Who all knew about the search prior? LE....Tommy....Tommy's lawyer-Werter.....Steve Brown....am I missing someone maybe? Out of this bunch who would tell Misty? LE? Maybe they did tell her....but why would they do that? The only thing I can think of is what you have stated....they wanted to see what Misty would do with that information....and they waited...

But if LE did that...that would mean that they had a feeling that Misty would warn someone else....they just wanted to know WHO that someone else would be...they may have already suspected that Misty would give the Cummings a heads up....especially if they thought that Misty was covering for them...couldn't this "pre-search" from the Cummings be used against them if charges were filed? Could it be considered as evidence against them?

bolded by me

Hmmmmmmm??...Don't know...It would be interesting to know...IF..there was a survellience on the area.....AND TN/GMMS...was seen removing evidence/planting evidence/...destroying evidence....

It is a puzzle to me...why...IF the LE was going to search a certain area...in an investigation...that they would let ANYONE know...IN ADVANCE...

That to me is ...like...they are going to raid a drug house...and tell everyone and their neighbor in advance...Doesn't make sense to open their mouth about it....BUT ..perhaps...tell it in the right ear......and put servalliance on the area and sees who shows up...and what they do...bingo...there are your persons of interest...just a guess...

new thought...Could TN/GMMS thrown something in the water, by the dock??? rope??? cinder blocks????...something of Tommy's/Mistys.????something of Haleigh's????..just guessing..

all in my own opinion

 

[cyberborg]

Cyber, I'm sorry, I didn't mean that LE was working with GMFlo....could they have just tapped her phone without her knowing?....that's what I meant...I'm sorry for the confusion...

Understood. I was just thinking aloud myself ... that there was no cooperation there.

LE obviously listened to all calls from Misty to Gma Flo and Misty was somehow prompted to let Gma Sykes know. I'd doubt if LE would tap Gma Flo's phone although they didn't really need to given how she talked to everyone and anyone about everything.

 

[cyberborg]

Good thinking, Justus4all...That's taking it one step further....That makes me wonder...How did Misty come by this information? Who all knew about the search prior? LE....Tommy....Tommy's lawyer-Werter.....Steve Brown....am I missing someone maybe? Out of this bunch who would tell Misty? LE? Maybe they did tell her....but why would they do that? The only thing I can think of is what you have stated....they wanted to see what Misty would do with that information....and they waited...

But if LE did that...that would mean that they had a feeling that Misty would warn someone else....they just wanted to know WHO that someone else would be...they may have already suspected that Misty would give the Cummings a heads up....especially if they thought that Misty was covering for them...couldn't this "pre-search" from the Cummings be used against them if charges were filed? Could it be considered as evidence against them?

But this is important to ponder because, if Misty was primed with the search of Shell Harbor and warned Gma Flo, to tell Gma Sykes. Why would Misty want Gma Sykes to know if this was just limited to Misty and Tommy?

It further suggests, to us and to LE that this isn't just the Croslin's and that the Cummings are very much involved. That's why LE is not buying Misty's and Tommy's 'stories' and are pressuring Misty so hard to tell the truth.

Key point.

 

[suspicious1]

bolded by me

Hmmmmmmm??...Don't know...It would be interesting to know...IF..there was a survellience on the area.....AND TN/GMMS...was seen removing evidence/planting evidence/...destroying evidence....

It is a puzzle to me...why...IF the LE was going to search a certain area...in an investigation...that they would let ANYONE know...IN ADVANCE...

That to me is ...like...they are going to raid a drug house...and tell everyone and their neighbor in advance...Doesn't make sense to open their mouth about it....BUT ..perhaps...tell it in the right ear......and put servalliance on the area and sees who shows up...and what they do...bingo...there are your persons of interest...just a guess...
new thought...Could TN/GMMS thrown something in the water, by the dock??? rope??? cinder blocks????...something of Tommy's/Mistys.????something of Haleigh's????..just guessing..

all in my own opinion

That's a good guess....I would love to know if LE told Misty about this area.

 

[cyberborg]

Ok but wait a minute...

Tommy didn't meet with LE until that Monday right? IIRC, Tommy and his attorney met with LE that afternoon and took them to the dock later on that evening....Monday..

IIRC...Misty told GMFlo to call the Cummings on Sunday....how did Misty find out Sunday if LE didn't know until Monday? Any thoughts?

Maybe Misty cracked a little and just blamed Tommy and shared the Shell Harbor dump site to take the heat off?

Then LE pursued Tommy while setting up the search and Tommy fingered JO while reducing his involvement to that of victim (when he was clean-up)?

But still ... Misty felt it important to tip Gma Flo off to tip Gma Sykes. That's the key.

 

[suspicious1]

But this is important to ponder because, if Misty was primed with the search of Shell Harbor and warned Gma Flo, to tell Gma Sykes. Why would Misty want Gma Sykes to know if this was just limited to Misty and Tommy?
It further suggests, to us and to LE that this isn't just the Croslin's and that the Cummings are very much involved. That's why LE is not buying Misty's and Tommy's 'stories' and are pressuring Misty so hard to tell the truth.

Key point.

BBM
Good point, cyber...there wouldn't be a reason for Misty to let the Cummings know that the search was going to take place if this was only between the Croslins....but then that makes me wonder WHY Tommy would make up a story as to why and how Haleigh ended up at the dock in the first place....

My brain hurts....LOL

 

[justus4all]

Ok but wait a minute...

Tommy didn't meet with LE until that Monday right? IIRC, Tommy and his attorney met with LE that afternoon and took them to the dock later on that evening....Monday..

IIRC...Misty told GMFlo to call the Cummings on Sunday....how did Misty find out Sunday if LE didn't know until Monday? Any thoughts?

suspicious...when exactly did the search begin of LE with the dock...Sunday??...Were they searching BEFORE Monday...Which were they searching FIRST...the grounds/woods.....or the dock first????

 

[suspicious1]

Maybe Misty cracked a little and just blamed Tommy and shared the Shell Harbor dump site to take the heat off?

Then LE pursued Tommy while setting up the search and Tommy fingered JO while reducing his involvement to that of victim (when he was clean-up)?

But still ... Misty felt it important to tip Gma Flo off to tip Gma Sykes. That's the key.

BBM

You're right....

So Teresa and GMSykes showing up at this location...do you think it was to drop off evidence or retrieve/pick up evidence?.....if I had to choose between the two...it would be....retrieve/pick up evidence. What would be there to pick up?....besides Haleigh herself?

I am just stuck on the fact that Teresa, GMSykes, Misty, and Tommy knew or thought that Haleigh was there.....but LE didn't find her....so where did she go? I would hate to think that Teresa and GMSykes went to a grave site and retrieved her body....what if LE found a shallow grave or disturbed soil...where Haleigh may have been....and there was traces of decomp :waitasec:

OK my brain is scrambling now...that may be a stretch:waitasec: but it's just a thought.

 

[suspicious1]

suspicious...when exactly did the search begin of LE with the dock...Sunday??...Were they searching BEFORE Monday...Which were they searching FIRST...the grounds/woods.....or the dock first????

Good question....IIRC, the search started on Tuesday and it ended on Friday...IIRC, Monday evening is when Tommy took LE to the dock....and we learned that the Cummings had been there Monday afternoon....

So Tommy, LE and the Cummings were all in that area within hours of each other on Monday....ooh I wish LE would've ran into the Cummings while they were there.

I don't know if they were searching before Monday.

 

[Dr. Know?]

Great thoughts. Thanks. What if Misty had promised GGS that she would tell her if she found out what happened or found out about where Haleigh was or remembered what happened? Misty knew it would arouse attention with GGS for sure, or solidify the story of Joe did it. Just guessing but that came to me.

 

[bessie]

This is a great discussion. Y'all have raised some interesting questions and made good points. I think that guy Brown, the PI who worked for Tommy's lawyer, was talking to Tommy and Misty, if not directly then through their lawyers. I wonder if that's how Misty found out about the search. IDK.

I'm looking over notes from the phone calls between Tommy and his parents around the time of the search. Remember when Tommy told H and L that Joe was going to be arrested, and Joe had a knife to his throat when he saw Haleigh in the van. I'm pretty sure that was the week before the search. Tommy was sure Joe's arrest was imminent. He didn't expect them to search the dock at that point. The tapes aren't in sequence, so it's hard to tell the dates. Anyway, at one point Tommy mentions Brown and that everything is confidential with him. He also says his lawyer is going to meet with Misty "about something" on Monday. Brown also claimed to be the guy who solved the case.

 

[dodie20]

This is a great discussion. Y'all have raised some interesting questions and made good points. I think that guy Brown, the PI who worked for Tommy's lawyer, was talking to Tommy and Misty, if not directly then through their lawyers. I wonder if that's how Misty found out about the search. IDK.

I'm looking over notes from the phone calls between Tommy and his parents around the time of the search. Remember when Tommy told H and L that Joe was going to be arrested, and Joe had a knife to his throat when he saw Haleigh in the van. I'm pretty sure that was the week before the search. Tommy was sure Joe's arrest was imminent. He didn't expect them to search the dock at that point. The tapes aren't in sequence, so it's hard to tell the dates. Anyway, at one point Tommy mentions Brown and that everything is confidential with him. He also says his lawyer is going to meet with Misty "about something" on Monday. Brown also claimed to be the guy who solved the case.

actually, I've been thinking a lot about Steve Brown lately. maybe because Joe seems to be in the clear, (at least for now), & Misty's pointing at Tommy. All of this has made me wonder exactly how Brown, who was working for Crystal, got mixed up with Werter & Tommy. Honestly, I think if there was an overlooked detail in an LDT, Tommy freaked because he knew it pointed to him, so he either swapped roles with Joe, or added him, to his own doings. MOO. & As for Misty giving GGS a heads up, I just thought she was letting them know because they were Haleigh's family, & she knew they'd want to know. If LE didn't want her blabbing, they should've monitored her calls a little closer.