If you believe the Ramsey's did it please answer this for me...

[Camper]

I dont get why its called the elaborate staging cuz they did a very poor job of it-they did it in a room where the window was small and it could be doubted whether or not it was even used by an intruder - the size being smaller than most men.
They left things very unclear if they wanted to have others believe there was an intruder cuz most of u think they are guilty.
The biggest problem I have with the whole notion they staged it is that the staging was so poorly done-only an idiot would write that ransom note-make it that long..and leave her in a room with nothing out of place but a suitcase..
These are smart people-they would have done a better job..such as break a window-put a chair under it-they would make it more obvious and believeable..jmo
And i get stopped for sure when its explained as sexual abuse gone awry..there is nothing in his history to suggest he was an abuser-even his ex wife stood up and said so-and she is an ex.
Not one person has come out of the closet with these things having been true in his history..i mean it makes no sense that they did it..and if the crime scene was screwed up by incompetent police work, why does everyone think it was the ramseys..once a scene is contaminated-it points to no-one or everyone..not just the ramseys.

Mark Lunford didnt kill his child-and the grandfather had a record and yet it wasnt him..it was an intruder-and noone heard him come take her
His trailer was pply the same distance as the basement was from the ramseys bedroom so its very possible the intruder could go unheard.

Surely the ramseys could have done a much better job of staging it. Even an intruder could have bashed her over the head and just left it at that..they didnt have to stage a strangulation to stage this.
That was overkill not just kill..it wasnt necessary.
(all this from catching john ramsey abusing her or patsy killing her for bedwetting..it just is so weak in my opinion-they could have done a softer kill and still have it point to an intruder)
Its the work of a depraved paedophile -they kill like that..non-killers such as the ramseys dont kill like that for the first time..god-they could have smothered her and left her in her room and still have it point to an intruder.
Look at elizabeth smart-it happens-when noone wants to believe it wasnt an inside job-until elizabeth was found a lot of folks blamed the dad or the uncles-people said many rotten things about them..and even the case of that duncan guy-they had no idea who he was-he just picked that house to watch and line up a kill.
It happens-so i just do not get how everything the ramseys did or did not do makes them evil.

It doesnt make any sense and even the fact that some of u think it was john and others think it was patsy and others think it was burke tells me they would not have been convicted..it would have to be clearer and it wasnt.
If 2 explanations are equal u have to give the defendant the benefit of reasonable doubt- for every argument that has been presented I can think of a reasonable counter possibilitiy..so if I can its possible they were not involved-cuz I am not trying hard to counter claim..it just looks differently to me.
Now-one thing that is out of place for me is no footsteps in the snow..these intruders dont fly out of a house..however, the investigation was so poorly done that I have doubts about that - for one thing tons of people came to the house before they knew she was dead..how can they say there were no footsteps in the snow-and I also heard other reasons for it-like the snow wasnt everywhere they could have walked.
yada

--->>>There was no snow on the sidewalks, look at the crime scene pics.

.

 

[Peter Hamilton]

MaybeSo,you are missing the point--those women are in prison,not in a mental health center--juries found them guilty--juries didn't buy any excuse for what they did--and they certainly didn't buy any alleged abuse,mental health issues as mitigating factors--sorry

 

[Peter Hamilton]

and,may I add,that I have read over 700 true crime books,including books about the aforementioned evil 3 mothers--perhaps you should investigate more on why mothers kill,it may open your eyes a bit

 

[tumble]

--->>>There was no snow on the sidewalks, look at the crime scene pics.

.

Yes, at 9.00 when the photoes were taken. We really don't know that state of the sidewalks at 6.05 when officer French arrived. The policemen first on the scene reported that there were no footprints, there could have been snow or frost on the footpaths that morning.

John Fernie left footprints 'in the snow' at about 8.00 and he was confunded why noone asked him about them later. Probably those prints were already gone by 9.00 when the photos were taken.

 

[twinkiesmom]

An accident is not a homicide...

But accidental death during a sexual assault is still felony murder...

(not sure of Colorado jurisdiction specifically).

 

[Elberethe]

I feel it was an accident and pretty much happened the way Steve Thomas describes in his book. This really isn't as uncommon a scenerio as people seem to think.

 

[dottierainbow]

I couldn't agree with you more NewTv.
Amy

I dont get why its called the elaborate staging cuz they did a very poor job of it-they did it in a room where the window was small and it could be doubted whether or not it was even used by an intruder - the size being smaller than most men.
They left things very unclear if they wanted to have others believe there was an intruder cuz most of u think they are guilty.
The biggest problem I have with the whole notion they staged it is that the staging was so poorly done-only an idiot would write that ransom note-make it that long..and leave her in a room with nothing out of place but a suitcase..
These are smart people-they would have done a better job..such as break a window-put a chair under it-they would make it more obvious and believeable..jmo
And i get stopped for sure when its explained as sexual abuse gone awry..there is nothing in his history to suggest he was an abuser-even his ex wife stood up and said so-and she is an ex.
Not one person has come out of the closet with these things having been true in his history..i mean it makes no sense that they did it..and if the crime scene was screwed up by incompetent police work, why does everyone think it was the ramseys..once a scene is contaminated-it points to no-one or everyone..not just the ramseys.

Mark Lunford didnt kill his child-and the grandfather had a record and yet it wasnt him..it was an intruder-and noone heard him come take her
His trailer was pply the same distance as the basement was from the ramseys bedroom so its very possible the intruder could go unheard.

Surely the ramseys could have done a much better job of staging it. Even an intruder could have bashed her over the head and just left it at that..they didnt have to stage a strangulation to stage this.
That was overkill not just kill..it wasnt necessary.
(all this from catching john ramsey abusing her or patsy killing her for bedwetting..it just is so weak in my opinion-they could have done a softer kill and still have it point to an intruder)
Its the work of a depraved paedophile -they kill like that..non-killers such as the ramseys dont kill like that for the first time..god-they could have smothered her and left her in her room and still have it point to an intruder.
Look at elizabeth smart-it happens-when noone wants to believe it wasnt an inside job-until elizabeth was found a lot of folks blamed the dad or the uncles-people said many rotten things about them..and even the case of that duncan guy-they had no idea who he was-he just picked that house to watch and line up a kill.
It happens-so i just do not get how everything the ramseys did or did not do makes them evil.

It doesnt make any sense and even the fact that some of u think it was john and others think it was patsy and others think it was burke tells me they would not have been convicted..it would have to be clearer and it wasnt.
If 2 explanations are equal u have to give the defendant the benefit of reasonable doubt- for every argument that has been presented I can think of a reasonable counter possibilitiy..so if I can its possible they were not involved-cuz I am not trying hard to counter claim..it just looks differently to me.
Now-one thing that is out of place for me is no footsteps in the snow..these intruders dont fly out of a house..however, the investigation was so poorly done that I have doubts about that - for one thing tons of people came to the house before they knew she was dead..how can they say there were no footsteps in the snow-and I also heard other reasons for it-like the snow wasnt everywhere they could have walked.
yada

 

[Old Broad]

If JonBenet was killed as a result of Patsy losing it, wouldn't JonBenet have many more marks on her body? If a mother went into a rampage I picture things like grabbing the child by her arms, shaking her, slapping her across the face, there would be many areas that would be bruised from many different types of blows wouldn't there?

OB

 

[englishleigh]

...PR found JR doing something unspeakable to JB in the basement, and instead of being angry at HIM, she lashed out at JB in a twisted jealous rage and bashed her over the head? Just a thought....I'm not saying this is what happened.

 

[southcitymom]

Some of the scenarios are possible but I have never read a RDI theory that I found probable.

Until someone comes up with a better explanation for the DNA under her nails and in her panties than the sneezing garment factory worker.....(I'd also like an explanation for the marks that appear clearly to be stun gun marks)...I am firmly planted on the fence.

You know, I've never found a scenario in the Darlie Routier that I found probable - I can't for the life of me figure out a motive in that case that makes sense to me - but the evidence in that case points overwhelmingly to Darlie's guilt.

I feel the same way about the Ramsey case. I can't find a RDI theory that I find probable in my own mind, but I find the evidence to suggest overwhelmingly that JBR's death (whether murder or accident) was an inside job.

I believe that the stun gun theory has been properly debunked by the vast majority of people and experts involved in the case. I don;t think JBR's body had stun gun marks on it. Additionally, the DNA under her fingernails was found to be old and not from a fresh struggle. It is my personal opinion that most of the IDI "evidence" has been roundly debunked. And so I can only lean towards the improbable because it makes the most sense and fits the solid evidence that I know about.

 

[Eagle1]

JonBenet may as well have been a doll. In fact, it might be worth checking the doll's nether regions for "DNA"... if you catch my drift...

Unusual idea but maybe they should do that. Where's the doll now?

 

[Eagle1]

I think LE or anyone could tell if the 2 sets of footprints in the basement mold were fresh, or what degree of fresh, right?

Are the documentaries plain wrong, just to sell a story?

We've also been thinking the handprint was Melinda's, but the docu's say it has not been identified. (Could be one of the recent remodlers, I know. Could they tell how fresh the handprint was, too?)

 

[southcitymom]

I think LE or anyone could tell if the 2 sets of footprints in the basement mold were fresh, or what degree of fresh, and they wouldn't have used them so much in the documentaries if they weren't, right? Or are they wrong? We've also been thinking the handprint was Melinda's, but the docu's say it has not been identified. (Could be one of the recent remodlers, I know. Could they tell how fresh that was, too?)

It's my understanding that the handprint has been positively identified as Melinda's.

 

[Eagle1]

It's my understanding that the handprint has been positively identified as Melinda's.

I've heard that too. In fact, heard it both ways. I was still editing above when you posted, if you care to read it.

 

[southcitymom]

I've heard that too. In fact, heard it both ways. I was still editing above when you posted, if you care to read it.

Thanks - got it!

 

[SallyLu]

I'm a fence sitter with questions that I'm sure have been posed and answered before.


Do you think the paint brush handle could tie in with her soiling her bed? A parent's anger?


I think the phone records from the land line and cells are holding the answer.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

If JonBenet was killed as a result of Patsy losing it, wouldn't JonBenet have many more marks on her body? If a mother went into a rampage I picture things like grabbing the child by her arms, shaking her, slapping her across the face, there would be many areas that would be bruised from many different types of blows wouldn't there?

OB

Meyer noted temporal lobe bruising, like in shaken baby syndrome. Someone grabbed JonBenet and shook her pretty hard for that to happen.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

I'm a fence sitter with questions that I'm sure have been posed and answered before.


Do you think the paint brush handle could tie in with her soiling her bed? A parent's anger?


I think the phone records from the land line and cells are holding the answer.

A lot of people think the vaginal abuse indicated was directly tied into JonBenet's continued incontinence. Perhaps Patsy was abusing JonBenet as punishment for wetting herself so often, and perhaps she was wetting herself because she was being abused.

Interesting to me is Patsy calling JonBenet's pediatrician three times on December 17th, but no one has answered why she called three times or what she was told. JonBenet also visited her school nurse two Mondays in a row just prior to her death, and no one has ever said what that was about either.

It seems to me that something was definitely wrong in that house in concern to JonBenet's health, and I have to wonder why it's such a secret.

 

[newtv]

If JonBenet was killed as a result of Patsy losing it, wouldn't JonBenet have many more marks on her body? If a mother went into a rampage I picture things like grabbing the child by her arms, shaking her, slapping her across the face, there would be many areas that would be bruised from many different types of blows wouldn't there?

OB

I agree-and if the father was abusing her right at the time wouldnt there be more markings as well?

 

[tumble]

.....(I'd also like an explanation for the marks that appear clearly to be stun gun marks)...I am firmly planted on the fence.

Regarding the marks on JBR's back, have you read this
http://websleuths.com/forums/showth...ings#post463185