If you look at it logically it's very clear who did it!

[Chypre]

Someone who knew the family, someone JBR was very familiar with, someone who knew the layout of the Ramsey house, and someone who had keys to the house and wouldn't be questioned (much) if he were discovered there, wouldn't have any problem getting JBR to eat a little pineapple.

If only the monster inside him wouldn't have surfaced after that. But it did. And JBR paid the ultimate price for trusting the man.

All MOO

I wonder if house blueprints and renovations were kept by the town, and perhaps online in 1997.

 

[Deleted member 187229]

Could you provide a link for this? TIA.

I don’t know if I can provide a link because we don’t know if the background noises were voices, we don’t know who’s voices they were etc. I’m saying it could have been anything. It could have come from the call centre, it could have been background noise at the call centre, another operator talking in the background, it could have been a crossed line which wasn’t unusual in the 90’s, it could just be static interference etc. if you look for the original 911 call without enhancements there’s nothing at the end of the call.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I don’t know if I can provide a link because we don’t know if the background noises were voices, we don’t know who’s voices they were etc. I’m saying it could have been anything. It could have come from the call centre, it could have been background noise at the call centre, another operator talking in the background, it could have been a crossed line which wasn’t unusual in the 90’s, it could just be static interference etc. if you look for the original 911 call without enhancements there’s nothing at the end of the call.

The enhanced version of the call done by Aerospace Corporation of California identified the 3 voices and what was said. As a result, the Ramseys had to change their story and admit that BR was awake. They did continue to deny he was present when the call was made, despite his voice being on the recording. Even Burke admitted to the GJ that the voice sounded like his. The 911 dispatcher heard the voices and alerted her supervisor who in turn alerted police. The public has never heard the enhanced recording that Aerospace did directly from the original recording, but the GJ did. Officials have heard it and agreed to a person that there were 3 voices, 2 adults and a child and what they said. That recording remains in police custody.

 

[Deleted member 187229]

The enhanced version of the call done by Aerospace Corporation of California identified the 3 voices and what was said. As a result, the Ramseys had to change their story and admit that BR was awake. They did continue to deny he was present when the call was made, despite his voice being on the recording. Even Burke admitted to the GJ that the voice sounded like his. The 911 dispatcher heard the voices and alerted her supervisor who in turn alerted police. The public has never heard the enhanced recording that Aerospace did directly from the original recording, but the GJ did. Officials have heard it and agreed to a person that there were 3 voices, 2 adults and a child and what they said. That recording remains in police custody.

I don’t believe it. There’s absolutely no proof that’s true.

 

[Deleted member 187229]

CBI report noted serological analysis detected creatinine on the sheets, blanket, comforter, nightgown, pants and shirt. Creatinine is excreted in urine.

If there was urine on the sheets, even if it was trace amounts, that throws the police theory out the window of patsy washing the sheets and replacing them.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I don’t believe it. There’s absolutely no proof that’s true.

No proof that what's true?

 

[Bean&Cheese]

NK's police interviews.


- 2000-02-22 Nancy Krebs: Boulder PD Interview Part 1 (Part 1 - 308kb .pdf File)
- 2000-02-22 Nancy Krebs: Boulder PD Interview Part 2 (Part 2 - 1505kb .pdf File)
- 2000-02-22 Nancy Krebs: Boulder PD Interview Part 3 (Part 3 - 1844kb .pdf File)
- 2000-02-22 Nancy Krebs: Boulder PD Interview Part 4 (Part 4 - 1195kb .pdf File)
- 2000-02-22 Nancy Krebs: Boulder PD Interview Part 5 (Part 5 - 1409kb .pdf File)
- 2000-02-22 Nancy Krebs: Boulder PD Interview Part 6 (Part 6 - 999kb .pdf File)


Scroll down to NK's interviews with Det. Trujillo.

s-Flight755-15thStreet.htm

JonBenet Ramsey Case Transcripts

www.acandyrose.com

Humm… she’s was very detailed and had the same answers when asked the same/similar questions at different phases of the interview. What blows my mind though, is that BOTH sets of grandparents were in on the sex abuse. What are your thoughts? I wish that Nancy’s interview had come out BEFORE the evidence and pictures of JB were released.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I don’t believe it. There’s absolutely no proof that’s true.

The first person to question the "Burke was asleep" story was Ramsey friend Barbara Fernie. She and her husband John knew the Ramseys very well, and they were the 2nd phone call PR made that morning to come to the house. Barbara knew Burke to be an early riser, he typically got up around 5:30AM. IIRC, PR confirms this in one of the police interviews. Barbara was suspicious that the Ramseys were saying Burke was asleep the whole time. PR's story was that she screamed, JR confirms this and that he heard the scream from their bedroom on the 3rd floor. BR's bedroom was on the 2nd floor. Barbara did not believe that early riser Burke would not have heard the scream from the 2nd floor.

Later, BR recounts PR bursting into his room, flipping the lights on looking around and saying, "oh my God, oh my God". He describes hearing her "going psycho" downstairs. He describes JR as being calm and trying to calm PR down and discussing calling the police. He recalls JR going into his room, turning the lights on and looking around. He was awake.

The 911 dispatcher (Kimberly Archuleta) heard voices on the line after PR had thought she hung up the phone. The line had not disconnected. She informed her supervisor that she had heard something and wondered if the police were aware, which they were not. So they started investigating. They at first sent the recording to both the FBI and the SS, however neither agency had the latest technology at that time in order to successfully enhance the recording. Police then contacted the Aerospace Company in California for assistance. It was determined that the original recording was an older, low-fi technology, it was recorded on dictaphone. At that time dictaphone recordings were used for capturing speech for transcription, but the overall sound quality was not very good. So the original recording first had to be transferred to another format that offered a superior quality of sound with more options to enhance audio nuances and reduce noise to obtain a more clear end product. This involved digitizing the original recording and other techniques that were available at the time that Aerospace was using in their labs. They had the latest technology to apply to ensure maintaining the integrity of the original recording in order to enhance.

They were successful in enhancing the recording so that three voices could be heard. 2 adults, 1 child. This recording has been held close to the vest by police in order to protect the integrity of the recording. All of the recordings that have surfaced on the internet have been enhanced with well known audio techniques, but they do not have the advantage of utilizing the original recording and transferring to another digital format. Audio engineers who have attempted to enhance the recording are not doing so from the original source, which is why so many people have said they can't hear the voices.

The Boulder Camera reported on the enhanced recording and that Burke's voice could be heard. JR and PR later said they did not know BR was awake.

 

[Bean&Cheese]

The first person to question the "Burke was asleep" story was Ramsey friend Barbara Fernie. She and her husband John knew the Ramseys very well, and they were the 2nd phone call PR made that morning to come to the house. Barbara knew Burke to be an early riser, he typically got up around 5:30AM. IIRC, PR confirms this in one of the police interviews. Barbara was suspicious that the Ramseys were saying Burke was asleep the whole time. PR's story was that she screamed, JR confirms this and that he heard the scream from their bedroom on the 3rd floor. BR's bedroom was on the 2nd floor. Barbara did not believe that early riser Burke would not have heard the scream from the 2nd floor.

Later, BR recounts PR bursting into his room, flipping the lights on looking around and saying, "oh my God, oh my God". He describes hearing her "going psycho" downstairs. He describes JR as being calm and trying to calm PR down and discussing calling the police. He recalls JR going into his room, turning the lights on and looking around. He was awake.

The 911 dispatcher (Kimberly Archuleta) heard voices on the line after PR had thought she hung up the phone. The line had not disconnected. She informed her supervisor that she had heard something and wondered if the police were aware, which they were not. So they started investigating. They at first sent the recording to both the FBI and the SS, however neither agency had the latest technology at that time in order to successfully enhance the recording. Police then contacted the Aerospace Company in California for assistance. It was determined that the original recording was an older, low-fi technology, it was recorded on dictaphone. At that time dictaphone recordings were used for capturing speech for transcription, but the overall sound quality was not very good. So the original recording first had to be transferred to another format that offered a superior quality of sound with more options to enhance audio nuances and reduce noise to obtain a more clear end product. This involved digitizing the original recording and other techniques that were available at the time that Aerospace was using in their labs. They had the latest technology to apply to ensure maintaining the integrity of the original recording in order to enhance.

They were successful in enhancing the recording so that three voices could be heard. 2 adults, 1 child. This recording has been held close to the vest by police in order to protect the integrity of the recording. All of the recordings that have surfaced on the internet have been enhanced with well known audio techniques, but they do not have the advantage of utilizing the original recording and transferring to another digital format. Audio engineers who have attempted to enhance the recording are not doing so from the original source, which is why so many people have said they can't hear the voices.

The Boulder Camera reported on the enhanced recording and that Burke's voice could be heard. JR and PR later said they did not know BR was awake.

Do we know the content of the voice recordings? I’m not in one boat or the other as to who did what and who killed who… but, say Burke was awake… I know that JR and PR said he was asleep the entire time, but he could have woken up briefly, asked what was going on and then JR and/or PR could have said go back to sleep. He could have been given dimetapp or something so that he would sleep in after being up late (but, if you’re a parent, you know that doesn’t work haha). I think that it can be easily explained away.

 

[Bean&Cheese]

June 8,2005

'What do JonBenet's clothes say?'​

N

Thread 'What do JonBenet's clothes say?'

Jun 8, 2005

from the Patsy Ramsey interrogation (excerpts) interview June 1998, as transcribed by ACR:
PR: (looking through photo album) "Looks like the little red turtleneck, little cotton red turtleneck that I wanted her to wear to the White's and she didn't want to wear."

Det. Tom Haney: "How did it end up there?"

PR: (looking through photo album): "Well," (Patsy then very quietly begins to cry)

Det. Tom Haney: "It's about 10:25; you want to take a break?"

PR: (Patsy crying..muffled) "Sorry." (Muffled)

Interrogation tape appears to break here and a new conversation...

• Nehemiah
• Replies: 214
• Forum: JonBenet Ramsey

Side thought: If PR was wearing her red sweater all night and had contact with JBR, then JBR would have those red fibers on her and that’s how they could have gotten on the duct tape? (I haven’t taken a side yet as to who did what).

 

[concernedcitizen706]

You know, I just learned that the paintbrush was not actually in jbr when she was found. So apparently they thought it was in there, because they found a few wood chips inside. So apparently somebody put the paintbrush in, and then took it out.

That actually is even better for my theory. Because now I don't have to explain why there was no DNA left on the paintbrush there. Because now we know there was no paintbrush left.

So everybody always talked about the new underwear and that the DNA came from the new underwear etc. That is not really the likely scenario. And that is because the DNA was found only in the couple blood spots. So that means, the DNA got there from the blood dripping into the underwear, from the vagina. And that also means, the blood picked up some DNA from either the previous inserted paintbrush, or the side of the vaginal walls, or both, as it dripped down.

Also the blood drops showed up after the outside area was cleaned by the perp. So the blood must have dripped as a last thing.

So this is what I think happened. I do not think the DNA is from the perp. Because clearly he was careful at wiping everything up.

So I think this DNA came from a random cloth or napkin that the perp picked up last moment for some last moment maneuvers. I think a used paper napkin from the trash would work great for this. Or maybe one of the paint cloths Patsy had laying around, from the package.

So last moment, the perp picked up a random cloth or napkin, and maybe wiped the edge of jbr's fingertips again to make extra sure. He decided to check inside the underwear again. So he lowered the long johns and underwear. And using the napkin, he held the bottom of the already inserted paintbrush. Maybe he wasn't sure what to do with it. And then maybe he pushed the paintbrush in a little bit as he was messing with it. Thereby pushing some of the DNA from the napkin on the lower brush handle, inside the vaginal walls. Then he decided, no, to pull the paintbrush out. And then he pulled up the long johns on the side, getting some DNA on that from his gloves, and also pulling up the underwear with the same motion.

After he pulled up the long johns, a couple blood drops came out, carrying some of the DNA on the vaginal walls down to the underwear. The perp was not aware of this, because he had already pulled the long johns up.

 

[Chypre]

Do we know the content of the voice recordings? I’m not in one boat or the other as to who did what and who killed who… but, say Burke was awake… I know that JR and PR said he was asleep the entire time, but he could have woken up briefly, asked what was going on and then JR and/or PR could have said go back to sleep. He could have been given dimetapp or something so that he would sleep in after being up late (but, if you’re a parent, you know that doesn’t work haha). I think that it can be easily explained away.

From Kolar's book:
"Producing a previous set of handwritten notes, the technicians revealed their interpretation of the words spoken by the voices heard on the tail end of the tape. They all stared in amazement. Everyone who had listened to the enhanced version of the 911 tape had independently identified the same words and gender of the people speaking them.
There were 3 distinct voices heard on the tape and the conversation was identified as follows:
Male (angry): “We’re not speaking to you!”
Female: “Help me Jesus. Help me Jesus”
Young male: “Well, what did you find?”

Edit to add: The 911 operator Kimberly Archuletta, thought she heard it as Patsy saying, "OK, We called the police . . ." but that little discrepancy doesn't get mentioned everywhere. Even though the words aren't the same I think she explained PR's frantic breathing stopped and tone changed.

IMO, when I hear it, Burke's tone seems like an innocent question and JR was telling him to keep out of it.

 

[Bean&Cheese]

From Kolar's book:
"Producing a previous set of handwritten notes, the technicians revealed their interpretation of the words spoken by the voices heard on the tail end of the tape. They all stared in amazement. Everyone who had listened to the enhanced version of the 911 tape had independently identified the same words and gender of the people speaking them.
There were 3 distinct voices heard on the tape and the conversation was identified as follows:
Male (angry): “We’re not speaking to you!”
Female: “Help me Jesus. Help me Jesus”
Young male: “Well, what did you find?”

Edit to add: The 911 operator Kimberly Archuletta, thought she heard it as Patsy saying, "OK, We called the police . . ." but that little discrepancy doesn't get mentioned everywhere. Even though the words aren't the same I think she explained PR's frantic breathing stopped and tone changed.

IMO, when I hear it, Burke's tone seems like an innocent question and JR was telling him to keep out of it.

And perhaps Patsy stopped being frantic because she saw Burke come out and didn’t want to frighten him (tried to compose herself).

 

[Chypre]

And perhaps Patsy stopped being frantic because she saw Burke come out and didn’t want to frighten him (tried to compose herself).

That's a possibility.

 

[Tower]

I sent you a DM @OneLove because I don’t know if these sources are allowed here.

Evidence that female perpetrators, especially domestic violence SA, do not use object penetration.

“All involved male”
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1752928X09001760



10 cases of women initiating sexual sadism including penetration with object toward another female out of thousands of cases reviewed. None matching mother to child (most were in same sex adult relationships, some date rape or positions of power), and most were younger, poorer, less educated, less confident, many other demographics were nothing like PR. They were intended for humiliation of their victim.
https://stars.library.ucf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1086&context=etd



He studied foreign object insertion. “A male phenomenon” Profiled an adult serial s*xual predator SAing JonBenét (does not rule out JR in his writings, but essentially rules out any female or child)
“Mothers don’t torture their children to death unless they are extremely disturbed” They show sadistic and personality disorders that PR did not show.
Video: The Interview Room 1/12/25 YouTube.com
Dr. Gary Brucato, forensic profiler, Ph.D. Columbia University, psychiatrist, research in severe violence



A massive review of SA cases, adult female on young child penetration with object with internal injury is zero for all of those criteria to be met. Penetration SA was for personal s*xual gratification and usually done in same sex adult relationships. Females less likely to SA their own biological children, less likely to injure anyone with object. This is 2014 and they note a sharp rise in female perpetrators.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...omparison_of_Female_and_Male_Sexual_Offenders



Interesting study that media massively over reports female abusers compared to males and writes in ways that are more sensationalist. Women offenders are more shocking to society, so they are over reported. Jmo, but I think this could apply to PR. In addition to the RN, people just generally seem to think she was physically abusive, despite no evidence at all to support this.
https://www.dissertations.wsu.edu/dissertations/summer2009/j_chiotti_071409.pdf

 

[Gigiky]

You’re talking about a 6 year old. Do you think it’s appropriate to say this? It’s not even true.

So no one else has replied to this so I guess I will.
This is a horrible crime. And one committed against a child. And that makes the weight so much heavier. But I believe that everyone comes here to try and give their opinions / thoughts on this case. And at times it can get a little graphic. I do not think anyone here is trying to be inappropriate, but rather look for answers to why a sweet innocent child was taken from this world. And how there is no one who can tell us how or why or who is responsible. Not everyone who post on here has a formal degree. A lot of us are just people who care about other people.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Humm… she’s was very detailed and had the same answers when asked the same/similar questions at different phases of the interview. What blows my mind though, is that BOTH sets of grandparents were in on the sex abuse. What are your thoughts? I wish that Nancy’s interview had come out BEFORE the evidence and pictures of JB were released.

IMO
On the face of it it sounds highly unlikely that all the grandparents were in on the abuse.
I'm not familiar with all those involved in this case and the little I recently read about NK gave me much to ponder about her and some unanswered questions.
She is a victim of SA and her abuser was sent to prison, thankfully.
Being that she is a victim and also an accuser in the JBR case I don't know if critical comments about her accusations and claims would be considered "not victim friendly" to her here?

 

[Bean&Cheese]

IMO
On the face of it it sounds highly unlikely that all the grandparents were in on the abuse.
I'm not familiar with all those involved in this case and the little I recently read about NK gave me much to ponder about her and some unanswered questions.
She is a victim of SA and her abuser was sent to prison, thankfully.
Being that she is a victim and also an accuser in the JBR case I don't know if critical comments about her accusations and claims would be considered "not victim friendly" to her here?

Totally! Thank you for bringing that to my attention!!!

 

[neverstoplooking]

I'm with Lou Smit: she was brutally murdered by someone laying in wait in the house, likely a sadistic pedo predator who knew John, had seen or perhaps even met the child at some point, and who was extremely lucky in leaving very little to no valuable forensic evidence.

He probably lives what appears to be a normal life, covertly carrying a mass of horrible secrets around with him ( i.e. BTK, Richard Allen Davis, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, David Westerfield, et al...its a long list).
He moves amongst us freely and confidently and undetected - until he is.

Outside intruder, not a family member. Lou Smit was right, IMO.

 

[Bean&Cheese]

I'm with Lou Smit: she was brutally murdered by someone laying in wait in the house, likely a sadistic pedo predator who knew John, had seen or perhaps even met the child at some point, and who was extremely lucky in leaving very little to no valuable forensic evidence.

He probably lives what appears to be a normal life, covertly carrying a mass of horrible secrets around with him ( i.e. BTK, Richard Allen Davis, John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, David Westerfield, et al...its a long list).
He moves amongst us freely and confidently and undetected - until he is.

Outside intruder, not a family member. Lou Smit was right, IMO.

I agree 100%.