If you look at it logically it's very clear who did it!

[PolyDot]

I agree, she may have been so fearful that she complied with the cover up. However, that seems very hard to believe, especially given the fact she lied so well and never wavered in all the years leading up to her death. But I will admit, I can’t prove that didn’t happen, because in that case, MOST of the pieces would fit again. I used to be a JDI believer.

But if I can just say - the BDI fits ALL of the evidence. He seemed to be (and seems to still be) troubled.

His family kept him in psychiatric help for at least 2 years (that we know of) after her death, even though he seemed unbothered in his interviews with LE. Why?

They shielded him from EVER speaking for his entire life up until a damning CBS interview was released, and the interview did not help his cause. Why?

On the morning of the murder, they tell LE they never asked him if he heard anything, even though he admits to being up late that night to play with his Xmas toys. Why?

They say he never woke up, but there is evidence he was awake and speaking in the background during the 911 call. Why?

They shipped him off to their friends house to avoid police questions while JBR was still only “missing,” then turn around and accuse that same friend of possibly being a suspect. Why?

They deny ever giving him pineapple, even though the bowl is clearly there on the table with his fingerprints. Why?

He’s confronted with the picture, and even he shuts down and refuses to admit what’s in the bowl. They had even just discussed it being his favorite. Why?

And most importantly (in my opinion,) one of their first steps after the discovery of her body is to seal his medical and psychiatric records from not only becoming public, but being accessible to police as part of the investigation… why?

In terms of the DNA, I may be misunderstanding. Just to be clear and transparent as I’m not trying to mislead anyone. There IS DNA on her that does not match the family. That’s what causes so much debate in this case. However, it is touch DNA and widely regarded (by those that understand the case) as useless and easily transferred a zillion different ways. That doesn’t mean, however, that it isn’t there and should be totally disregarded.

I do honestly believe that the intruder theory is ridiculous and no one that knows the case can honestly believe it to be true, but I respect people’s opinions, even if they’re uninformed.

I hope that one day she can have justice but sadly I agree with you, I believe we will all be having these same debates forever.

Maybe BR was woken by all the commotion ( discovery of body , mums crying ,arguing, etc ) was given pineapple , then put to bed . By lying the parents don’t haven’t answer what woke him , what was happening .
Maybe his medical records sealed - because evidence of SA

 

[Tower]

Got it, but someone known (outside the family) would be considered an intruder, no? Unless you think the family helped cover for them, knowing they killed JBR?

And I agree there is so much mystery. But for the sake of argument, can you point out the holes in my theory? I welcome them because I want to figure it out. Obviously I’ll never know, but I welcome problems so I can reevaluate!

No unknown intruder. Someone they knew, invited in, not intruding. Someone they trusted, after all the lying, they could not change their story because the family was partially responsible. It’s not a good theory, but I don’t like any theory, nothing fits perfectly.

 

[Jink3]

Maybe BR was woken by all the commotion ( discovery of body , mums crying ,arguing, etc ) was given pineapple , then put to bed . By lying the parents don’t haven’t answer what woke him , what was happening .
Maybe his medical records sealed - because evidence of SA

That’s a great theory! I hadn’t heard this idea before. If that was the case, ca you expand on it? How would this explain JBR having a piece of pineapple too? Who perpetrated the crime and why?

 

[Jink3]

No unknown intruder. Someone they knew, invited in, not intruding. Someone they trusted, after all the lying, they could not change their story because the family was partially responsible. It’s not a good theory, but I don’t like any theory, nothing fits perfectly.

They invited a friend in that night after the party, he killed JBR and left, then the family covered it up and lied for 30 years to protect their child killer friend? I’m not sure I follow but maybe I’m misunderstanding.

If you see something wrong with my theory please let me know! You say it has holes, but I’m failing to see what those holes are, and I want to!

 

[Jink3]

I think they could have told the truth - he was 9 yrs old, accidental death , they could have used their wealth to get him best legal representation-likely he would have received treatment he needed & no custodial sentence - given his age .

I understand what you’re saying. But for arguments sake, let’s say they report the head blow, but she doesn’t make it. Now JBR IS dead, and she has signs of SA abuse. Who was it? Does JR blame/admit it was BR? Does JR take the fall/admit it was him? How do you prove who it was? How does your wealthy and influential family recover from a deceased child who had been SA in the past being found in the home? Was the family drinking? How does a drunk JR explain that his murdered child was killed and SA by their son, especially if they knew about the SA before hand but didn’t disclose it?

I totally understand your point, and that’s the major rebuttal I hear from non BDI theorists.

Any parent would call 911 for an accident, we all agree. But when you have a murdered child that was being SA in the house, everyone loses no matter what, there is no moving on.

That is also why I theorize BR to have done the head blow and the “garrote.” If the JR/PR found her in that state, a cover up is a NECESSITY, not an option. BRs not getting the “oops it was accident” treatment. Another reason I theorize this is because of the abrasions in her back perfectly matching being poked/prodded by BR’s train tracks. Would a parent do this? It shows a young mind, possibly confused or frightened at JBR being unresponsive after the head blow.

Again, all speculation and theory, but it’s based on EVIDENCE instead of what we think they should have done in a situation in which the actual circumstances we’re all completely unaware of.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Anything you want to research yourself can be found in both statements by lead investigators and law enforcement and now books by those involved. I choose to believe them but if you want to call them liars you can, that’s your choice.

The only one I implied was less than trustworthy was Kolar.

You can also do you own research using the below link to all documents and info regarding the case.

I specifically asked you for a source that Linda Hoffman Pugh said in an interview that Burke and JonBenet played doctor. You didn't provide one.

I specifically asked for a source that the feces in JonBenet's bed belonged to Burke. You didn't provide one.

Can you?

Other than that, I’m not going to debate facts of the case with you just because you like trolling and/or are too lazy to research the case yourself.

Hard to research something that doesn't exist.

I never said my theory was right, that’s why it’s a theory. But I sure as hell back it up. So if you want to wine “but the DNA” (even though I’ve addressed its fallacies,) while ignoring every other piece of evidence, then head on over to an IDI thread where you can help exonerate the family once and for all. Because that’s what we all want, right?

You haven't addressed its fallacies, actually. I suggest you read the actual reports.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Like this?

But you offer plenty of opinions that are not fact and take a lot of liberty drawing your own conclusions.
Please dont insist from others that in which you do not do.

I provide sources when asked for them, and I expect others to do likewise.

 

[PolyDot]

That’s a great theory! I hadn’t heard this idea before. If that was the case, ca you expand on it? How would this explain JBR having a piece of pineapple too? Who perpetrated the crime and why?

Did JBR eat pineapple in fruit salad at party ? I thought I read that but maybe not ?
Or maybe both kids get a snack before bed ? But why would parents lie about that ? Maybe because it just fitted their narrative , it must be have been hard to cover everything.

All just theories, we don’t have all the facts. Limited evidence otherwise there would be an arrest .

 

[PolyDot]

I understand what you’re saying. But for arguments sake, let’s say they report the head blow, but she doesn’t make it. Now JBR IS dead, and she has signs of SA abuse. Who was it? Does JR blame/admit it was BR? Does JR take the fall/admit it was him? How do you prove who it was? How does your wealthy and influential family recover from a deceased child who had been SA in the past being found in the home? Was the family drinking? How does a drunk JR explain that his murdered child was killed and SA by their son, especially if they knew about the SA before hand but didn’t disclose it?

I totally understand your point, and that’s the major rebuttal I hear from non BDI theorists.

Any parent would call 911 for an accident, we all agree. But when you have a murdered child that was being SA in the house, everyone loses no matter what, there is no moving on.

That is also why I theorize BR to have done the head blow and the “garrote.” If the JR/PR found her in that state, a cover up is a NECESSITY, not an option. BRs not getting the “oops it was accident” treatment. Another reason I theorize this is because of the abrasions in her back perfectly matching being poked/prodded by BR’s train tracks. Would a parent do this? It shows a young mind, possibly confused or frightened at JBR being unresponsive after the head blow.

Again, all speculation and theory, but it’s based on EVIDENCE instead of what we think they should have done in a situation in which the actual circumstances we’re all completely unaware of.

I hadn’t heard about train track marks on back , maybe she was lying on the train tracks ?

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I think they could have told the truth - he was 9 yrs old, accidental death , they could have used their wealth to get him best legal representation-likely he would have received treatment he needed & no custodial sentence - given his age .

I think you are overlooking the SA component. If she indeed was SAd and killed by accident or with intent, how do you sell that to the police and the public that want answers? They had the best legal representation and if BR was responsible, he was shielded by Colorado law but by creating confusion they were able to protect him from public scrutiny and from being institutionalized. If you lived in Boulder and it was found out that your child was going to school with a child who not only killed but SAd his sister, there would have been a public out cry. I think its oversimplified to say they were protecting their reputation. They were protecting their childs entire future. I dont think they loved BR any less than JB. People can relate to their children differently. People focus on PR relationship with JB but what about JR and BR? We dont really know how tight the relationship was. You may have a hard time relating to your child but that doesnt mean that you dont love them .
If you look back on the case, the police knew there was a cover up. Since when does the DA assist a suspect in noncompliace with police requests in an investigation? That wouldnt fly in my town.
There was a dead child in the home and not necessarily down in the basement. You are not going to walk away from it without consequences. Why do you think the police were never given the phone records for that night? Who were they talking to that they didnt want revealed? One phone call made during the time line would have thrown the whole IDI theory. How can you ignore so many stumpling blocks thrown at the investigation?

 

[Jink3]

I hadn’t heard about train track marks on back , maybe she was lying on the train tracks ?

The train track marks and the “stun gun” marks are one and the same. They do not match the stun gun, nor have burn marks like a stun gun would leave, but instead are abrasions. In fact, the marks match BRs traib track connecting points perfectly. The theory is he prodded at her with the end of the train track when she was unconscious.

Now this can’t be proven 100% unless her body was exhumed, so we will never know. Investigators asked to exhume her body to prove it and the family shut that idea down real quick.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

The train track marks and the “stun gun” marks are one and the same. They do not match the stun gun, nor have burn marks like a stun gun would leave, but instead are abrasions. In fact, the marks match BRs traib track connecting points perfectly. The theory is he prodded at her with the end of the train track when she was unconscious.

Now this can’t be proven 100% unless her body was exhumed, so we will never know. Investigators asked to exhume her body to prove it and the family shut that idea down real quick.

At least two coroners that worked with stun gun cases said the marks were most likely stun gun marks (Schiller, "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town", ch 16 & 21). Train tracks wouldn't produce such marks, and there's also the fact that the American Flyer O Gauge (which the tracks on the basement were) have three prongs, not two.

As for the measurements, Smit claimed they matched and I've seen them lined up perfectly, so I'm less inclined to believe Kolar's calculations.

 

[FMB]

At least two coroners that worked with stun gun cases said the marks were most likely stun gun marks (Schiller, "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town", ch 16 & 21). Train tracks wouldn't produce such marks, and there's also the fact that the American Flyer O Gauge (which the tracks on the basement were) have three prongs, not two.

As for the measurements, Smit claimed they matched and I've seen them lined up perfectly, so I'm less inclined to believe Kolar's calculations.

The stun gun is a falsehood and a fabrication.

Autopsy proves the marks were abrasions not burns.

There’s never been a stun gun found that matches the mark


If it were an intruder then why would an intruder need a stun gun to subdue a 6 year old girl? A stun gun does not render a person unconscious. Everything else used in the crime was found in the house but he takes the stungun with him?

When was this stun gun allegedly used after he smashed in Jonbenet's skull or before?

If Jonbenet knew the intruder well enough to have felt comfortable enough to go downstairs and eat pineapple then why would he need a stun gun to lure her anywhere?

Even if it is ever proven, the use of a stun gun does not prove there was ever an intruder that night.....maybe it was the Ramseys gun etc

Below is a quote from the Air Taser manufacturer ( yes I copied and pasted)

Air Taser representative Stephen Tuttle said he was contacted by an investigator early on in the case and provided Smit with the same model to conduct his experiments.

"I am bewildered. I don't know what to think about the theory," Tuttle said. "It defies the logic of what the weapon does."

Tuttle conceded that two marks are close to the width of the contacts of an Air Taser, but said that's where the similarities end.

"We have never seen those types of marks when you touch somebody with a stun gun," he said. "We are talking hundreds of people that have been touched with these devices. I can't replicate those marks."

Tuttle said it is uncommon for the stun gun to leave only two marks on the skin. The body moves away from the stun gun, causing multiple, erratic marks.

"How you can keep this thing perfectly still, not once, but twice on a squirming child? It doesn't make any sense," he said. "I hope that doesn't throw water on somebody's investigation."

 

[Jink3]

At least two coroners that worked with stun gun cases said the marks were most likely stun gun marks (Schiller, "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town", ch 16 & 21). Train tracks wouldn't produce such marks, and there's also the fact that the American Flyer O Gauge (which the tracks on the basement were) have three prongs, not two.

As for the measurements, Smit claimed they matched and I've seen them lined up perfectly, so I'm less inclined to believe Kolar's calculations.

Source?

They have shown without a doubt that the train tracks match, and connecting pieces of half the tracks have 2 puncture points, the other has one in the middle so they can all fit together when assembled.

Lou admits theory was disproved during independent testing showing that the stun gun nor the air taser would produce the wound on her back. Even the producer of the stun gun originally thought to be used said it was not caused my a stun gun.

You have seen them match perfectly? Please source! And also send to Boulder investigators because I’m sure they’d love to see that too!

Please source other material than a book written by an investigative journalist whose material and statements have been widely debunked. I tend to believe material used as evidence and expressed in the factual books written by case lead investigators based on that evidence. They may be biased in their theories, but they use the evidence in the case, not hearsay and molded facts that support their claims. Thanks!

 

[Kissee13]

The police were obviously unprepared for where this case was going to go, no one can argue that.

That being said, are you aware of all facts of the case? If so, can you explain to me how your theory of an intruder goes and how the evidence supports it?

Not an attack at all, I’m genuinely curious how people come to the intruder theory based on all the evidence.

Yes I am familiar . Have you watched the new Netflix doc? They found broken glass outside the window coming inside the basement window & the suitcase . Said the killer had probably waited in the home a long time .

 

[Kissee13]

The stun gun is a falsehood and a fabrication.

Autopsy proves the marks were abrasions not burns.

There’s never been a stun gun found that matches the mark


If it were an intruder then why would an intruder need a stun gun to subdue a 6 year old girl? A stun gun does not render a person unconscious. Everything else used in the crime was found in the house but he takes the stungun with him?

When was this stun gun allegedly used after he smashed in Jonbenet's skull or before?

If Jonbenet knew the intruder well enough to have felt comfortable enough to go downstairs and eat pineapple then why would he need a stun gun to lure her anywhere?

Even if it is ever proven, the use of a stun gun does not prove there was ever an intruder that night.....maybe it was the Ramseys gun etc

Below is a quote from the Air Taser manufacturer ( yes I copied and pasted)

Air Taser representative Stephen Tuttle said he was contacted by an investigator early on in the case and provided Smit with the same model to conduct his experiments.

"I am bewildered. I don't know what to think about the theory," Tuttle said. "It defies the logic of what the weapon does."

Tuttle conceded that two marks are close to the width of the contacts of an Air Taser, but said that's where the similarities end.

"We have never seen those types of marks when you touch somebody with a stun gun," he said. "We are talking hundreds of people that have been touched with these devices. I can't replicate those marks."

Tuttle said it is uncommon for the stun gun to leave only two marks on the skin. The body moves away from the stun gun, causing multiple, erratic marks.

"How you can keep this thing perfectly still, not once, but twice on a squirming child? It doesn't make any sense," he said. "I hope that doesn't throw water on somebody's investigation."

But she may have been stunn gunned in bed & later hit when she woke to keep her from screaming . She was only 6 years old . As far as her sexual assaulted , - that was to throw investigators off . J m o

 

[waterslyd]

I understand what you’re saying. But for arguments sake, let’s say they report the head blow, but she doesn’t make it. Now JBR IS dead, and she has signs of SA abuse. Who was it? Does JR blame/admit it was BR? Does JR take the fall/admit it was him? How do you prove who it was? How does your wealthy and influential family recover from a deceased child who had been SA in the past being found in the home? Was the family drinking? How does a drunk JR explain that his murdered child was killed and SA by their son, especially if they knew about the SA before hand but didn’t disclose it?

I totally understand your point, and that’s the major rebuttal I hear from non BDI theorists.

Any parent would call 911 for an accident, we all agree. But when you have a murdered child that was being SA in the house, everyone loses no matter what, there is no moving on.

That is also why I theorize BR to have done the head blow and the “garrote.” If the JR/PR found her in that state, a cover up is a NECESSITY, not an option. BRs not getting the “oops it was accident” treatment. Another reason I theorize this is because of the abrasions in her back perfectly matching being poked/prodded by BR’s train tracks. Would a parent do this? It shows a young mind, possibly confused or frightened at JBR being unresponsive after the head blow.

Again, all speculation and theory, but it’s based on EVIDENCE instead of what we think they should have done in a situation in which the actual circumstances we’re all completely unaware of.

A garrote is waaay too sophisticated for a 9 year old.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

The stun gun is a falsehood and a fabrication.

It is very easy to find pictures of stun gun wounds that look like the marks on JonBenet.

Autopsy proves the marks were abrasions not burns.

In one of the marks on JonBenet's face there is a white film, which would have come from melted adhesive from the tape that would have been over that mark. A stun gun could cause the adhesive to melt. Train tracks couldn't.

There’s never been a stun gun found that matches the mark

Schiller, "Perfect Murder, Perfect Town" p371

Mang suggested that Smit talk to Sue Kitchen, another CBI investigator, who had worked on a murder case in Steamboat Springs in which a stun gun was used. Two days later, Kitchen told the investigators that in her opinion, the small abrasions could have been made by a stun gun.

After viewing the photos, Dobersen told the investigators that the abrasions on JonBenét’s body could have come from a stun-gun injury but that there was no way to know for sure without checking the skin tissue under a microscope.

By the end of the month, Smit had tracked down several Air Taser stun guns whose measurements and characteristics were consistent with the marks in the photos. He had even discovered a local distributor, Upper Edge, in Greeley, northeast of Boulder. There Ainsworth and DeMuth photographed different types of Air Tasers.

p453

Smit and Steve Ainsworth were still investigating the possible use of a stun gun. By now they had learned that Air Tasers were sold locally by Boulder Security, and that another stun gun, called the Muscle Man, had the same characteristics as the Air Taser. When they had gathered sufficient information, Ainsworth, Pete Hofstrom, Trip DeMuth, and Detective Sgt. Wickman met with the coroner, John Meyer. After reviewing the photos and this new information, Meyer concluded that the injuries on JonBenét’s face and back were, in fact, consistent with those produced by a stun gun.

If it were an intruder then why would an intruder need a stun gun to subdue a 6 year old girl?

Why did Jaycee Dugard's captors feel the need to use a stun gun to subdue her?

A stun gun does not render a person unconscious. Everything else used in the crime was found in the house but he takes the stungun with him?

The sources for the duct tape and the cord used in the ligature and garrotte weren't found in the house either

When was this stun gun allegedly used after he smashed in Jonbenet's skull or before?

Likely before, but after he put the tape on her. If she squirmed more than he bargained for, he could have used it twice to subdue and when it failed to fully work use something (likely the bat) to hit her over the head.

If Jonbenet knew the intruder well enough to have felt comfortable enough to go downstairs

Green garland from the railing of the spiral staircase was in her hair. It would get there of he carried her downstairs, not if she walked. But I agree he likely prevented a benign image to her.

and eat pineapple

I don't believe she did.

then why would he need a stun gun to lure her anywhere?

By the time the stun gun was used there was tape over her mouth. My guess is that the ligature and the garrotte were in play by then.

Even if it is ever proven, the use of a stun gun does not prove there was ever an intruder that night.....maybe it was the Ramseys gun etc

No one could ever prove they bought one or owned one. And they tried.

 

[Jink3]

Yes I am familiar . Have you watched the new Netflix doc? They found broken glass outside the window coming inside the basement window & the suitcase . Said the killer had probably waited in the home a long time .

Ahhh, the Netflix documentary. Please do your own independent research, that documentary left out most of the evidence in the case and was extremely biased. It relied on “facts” theorized by Lou Smit in the early days of the investigation, much of which has now been proven false/debunked.

There was only one small piece of glass found inside the house by Fleet White when he inspected the basement, which he told investigators he placed on top of the suitcase. He also told investigators that he moved the suitcase under the window to better inspect the floor for more glass. So where was the suitcase before Fleet moved it? We don’t entirely know because Fleet has made sure all his testimony (both to the Grand Jury and to investigators) stays sealed. However, he does continue to push for justice and soon after stopped associating with the Ramsey Family.

JR also told investigators he had broken the window months before when he locked himself out of the house. It’s presumed he cleaned up the glass back then since his kids played down there frequently. There was no glass outside the window, in fact no disturbances at all! So why would Netflix push this theory?

Netflix also stated the Lou Smit showed foliage growing under the window grate, meaning it had been lifted. What Netflix didn’t address was that investigators found that the grate didn’t sit flush against the ground, and foliage was growing underneath the open spaces, not smushed from being lifted and closed back on top.

PR was also quick to release photos of the homes rear south side door that had damage to it, explaining that this could be another sign of an intruder trying to break in. What she must have forgotten is that she had been speaking with her friends about it in the months prior, but didn’t have it fixed. These friends stopped associating with them when they learned that PR was now pushing it out into the media while knowing full well that it was old/unrelated. Why?

 

[Jink3]

A garrote is waaay too sophisticated for a 9 year old.

Not true at all. The garrote was not actually a typical garrote. It was a Boy Scout mechanism used to help move heavy objects. The family pushed to the media how intricate the knots were, but experts have said they are relatively simple. You can even find them in the Boy Scout handbook.

I wonder if anyone in that house was a boy scout, or maybe someone was a navy veteran that specialized in knot tying? Did anyone have sailing experience?