If you look at it logically it's very clear who did it!

[AddieBoo]

I don’t know… the fact that multiple people couldn’t find her seems like it wouldn’t have been staged… I will say that if Patsy had called after finding Jonbenet’s body, it would have looked VERY bad for John and Patsy. Jonbenet died at 1 in the morning, her body was found in the basement 12 hours later at 1 pm. That’s where it gets a little fishy, how could they not find her for 12 hours. She was in the basement.

There’s that “Eleven O’Clock” statement JR made to his son-in-law…
How did the basement not smell of urine and death? Even outside the wine room-the large urine stain.
A closed cement no windowed room with a urine soaked body that had been dead a long time? No smells?

IIRC The LE who entered the bedroom of JB that day, commented on the urine smell…

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I agree.

That said, I also agree that prosecution likely would not have resulted in a guilty verdict or verdicts. But, the actions of the DA and his office in this case are very questionable. Unprecedented. And I think Hunter deserved to have been charged with prosecutorial misconduct. So much has been made about the mistakes made by police on the 26th in particular, and those criticisms are absolutely warranted. 100%. No argument there. But one really needs to look both at the big picture and what happened from then on. While acknowledging the mistakes made, the Boulder PD were not the bad guys. And the DA's office played a major role in painting a public perception of incompetence throughout the investigation.

While some like to label it "conspiracy theorist", the back channel that existed between the DA's office and Haddon & Morgan et al on team Ramsey cannot be ignored. There are some well known and very long term connections there that surely played a role in how everything went down. The Ramseys had a pretty thick layer of protection. This is obvious and undeniable.

Even a not so deep dive into DA Hunter's track record with cases that crossed his desk, and in particular cases that involved child *advertiser censored* and the abuse of children reveals unexplained leniency. Under the guise of saving taxpayers money by hardly ever prosecuting anything no matter the evidence or worthiness, he put offenders back on the streets who then fled the state & justice or offended again. When it involves the abuse of vulnerable children, IMO that is inexcusable and a dereliction of his sworn duty to keep our communities safe. It is a topic all its own. And it opens the discussion up to why the Ramseys were treated with kid gloves. And just who was in assist behind the scenes to make all of it go away.

Despite their claims of being the victims in this case, it remains that the true victim is the one who lost her life. That's JonBenet Ramsey. It's also plainly evident that the big effort put forth was not to uncover the truth and to find her killer, but to keep LE at arm's length from the truth. They have been the biggest hindrance in exposing the truth of what happened that night. I can understand hiring lawyers. That's smart. But hiring a PR team?? And then they proceeded to hide behind the cover that both the lawyers and the PR team gave them, claiming they were being targeted. If you do not actively work to clear yourselves, what do you expect?

It is truly sad that there will probably never be true justice for the victim in this case, JonBenet. She deserves justice. She deserves so much more than the charade perpetrated by the most part by her own family, that has followed her death.

But, why would he go that route?

I always come back to asking why a man would beg for nearly 30 years for police to keep investigating a case if he was the killer?

DNA may not answer all those details, but it could tell us who killed JonBenet.

Work it backwards. Can any DNA alone found on JBRs body incriminate JR? Burke? Patsy? Was there any semen found at the crime scene? If the good Lord himself whispered in your ear that JR was guilty, would his DNA alone found at the scene incriminate him enough for him to be convicted in a court of law?

 

[SunRecordFan1952]

There’s that “Eleven O’Clock” statement JR made to his son-in-law…
How did the basement not smell of urine and death? Even outside the wine room-the large urine stain.
A closed cement no windowed room with a urine soaked body that had been dead a long time? No smells?

IIRC The LE who entered the bedroom of JB that day, commented on the urine smell…

Agreed. Inside a closed cement room with no windows, not having any smell for what had happened is quite odd, considering that she had been dead 12 hours…

 

[CloudedTruth]

There’s that “Eleven O’Clock” statement JR made to his son-in-law…
How did the basement not smell of urine and death? Even outside the wine room-the large urine stain.
A closed cement no windowed room with a urine soaked body that had been dead a long time? No smells?

IIRC The LE who entered the bedroom of JB that day, commented on the urine smell…

The basement as a whole was a large space which had multiple “rooms” as it were. There was a broken window letting in cold winter air. Linda Arndt noted the smell of decomposition on the body. I’m not aware of comments about smells from the wine cellar, but we know it was cold, damp and moldy. That could’ve potentially covered other smells which may be another reason she was placed there.

 

[CloudedTruth]

Work it backwards. Can any DNA alone found on JBRs body incriminate JR? Burke? Patsy? Was there any semen found at the crime scene? If the good Lord himself whispered in your ear that JR was guilty, would his DNA alone found at the scene incriminate him enough for him to be convicted in a court of law?

But, why would he go that route?

I always come back to asking why a man would beg for nearly 30 years for police to keep investigating a case if he was the killer?

DNA may not answer all those details, but it could tell us who killed JonBenet.

We then should also ask, why didn’t the Ramseys cooperate with the investigation from the beginning or at any time since? JR has not been begging for 30 years. He has spent many years avoiding, manipulating the facts and obstructing.

 

[GRT]

Work it backwards. Can any DNA alone found on JBRs body incriminate JR? Burke? Patsy? Was there any semen found at the crime scene? If the good Lord himself whispered in your ear that JR was guilty, would his DNA alone found at the scene incriminate him enough for him to be convicted in a court of law?

If the DNA found on the crotch of JBR's panties (mixed with her blood, making it a composite sample) was determined to have come from any of the Ramseys, of course, it would strongly indicate their guilt because the DNA of two people (one being JBRR) were combined and then deposited on her panties.

Problem is -- that DNA did not come from any of the Ramseys.

 

[GRT]

We then should also ask, why didn’t the Ramseys cooperate with the investigation from the beginning or at any time since? JR has not been begging for 30 years. He has spent many years avoiding, manipulating the facts and obstructing.

He has been begging for nearly 30 years for the BPD to wake up and find the killer of his little girl.

The Ramseys cooperated with LE -- they just did so with their attorneys present, as anyone who's been unfairly maligned by LE should do.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

If the DNA found on the crotch of JBR's panties (mixed with her blood, making it a composite sample) was determined to have come from any of the Ramseys, of course, it would strongly indicate their guilt because the DNA of two people (one being JBRR) were combined and then deposited on her panties.

Problem is -- that DNA did not come from any of the Ramseys.

If the DNA found on the crotch of JBR's panties (mixed with her blood, making it a composite sample) was determined to have come from any of the Ramseys, of course, it would strongly indicate their guilt because the DNA of two people (one being JBRR) were combined and then deposited on her panties.

Problem is -- that DNA did not come from any of the Ramseys.

My question is would that get a conviction in a court of law? I'm asking you to add one theory a defence attorney would use to explain away as to why their DNA may be on her clothes.
Secondly, if JR knows it was either Patsy or Burke, do you think he cares who in the the hells DNA is there?
PR is dead and can be explained away. Burke was a minor that that can't be held responsible and if it's his DNA it will be explained away.
What JR should be motivated by is the mess BR has been left with for the rest of his life due to decisions made by his he and Patsy.

 

[Zodiac_Speaking]

My question is would that get a conviction in a court of law? I'm asking you to add one theory a defence attorney would use to explain away as to why their DNA may be on her clothes.
Secondly, if JR knows it was either Patsy or Burke, do you think he cares who in the the hells DNA is there?
PR is dead and can be explained away. Burke was a minor that that can't be held responsible and if it's his DNA it will be explained away.
What JR should be motivated by is the mess BR has been left with for the rest of his life due to decisions made by his he and Patsy.

3 points I gotta get out: (and I am not upset at your post at all, btw)

1) BR - even if he did it - even if he admitted to it today - is absolutely untouchable. Period. Full stop. We all know this
2) I don't give a flying flip what team Ramsey has to say about diddly squat. JR has so many changes in the story over the years it's just mind boggling...... and when pinned down on specifics, team R *ALWAYS* "can't recall" --- funny though they can recall precisely enough to keep them out of prison.....
2a) I find it absolutely comical that the bumbling idiot, JR, is careless enough to "lose" his cell phone but yet simultaneously can run a %1 billion dollar plus company. Absurd. Absolutely absurd. (cough, complete BS) especially when you consider that he loses this cell phone precisely 1 month before the murder - so there are no phone records for his cell phone for the month of December. Again, absolutely absurd BS.
3) JR is all of a sudden "begging" BPD to renew testing because *HE KNOWS* - 1) It will lead absolutely nowhere. 2) It will use up the rest of the remaining DNA so the case can never truly come back to him or his family, and 3) and most important, IMHO, *HE KNOWS* the DNA technology HAS NOT advanced to the point where there will be any new revelations...... the BPD knows this too....

Ever notice in spite of the headlines that NO ONE from an official capacity, IE: BPD, FBI, etc has come right out and said: "Yes, DNA tech has advanced significantly in the past X # of years and we will be doing new DNA testing on XYZ materials....." ????? Ever notice that???? It's only team R and clickbait headlines that ultimately lead to nothing.....no movement in the case whatsoever.

It's awfully funny to me how team R DID NOT WANT testing done on the "hair" found in the blanket UNTIL they could be sure that "other evidence" in the case would also point to the killer, because there wasn't much of the hair left to test..... but now all of a sudden they do want testing on the remaining evidence???? All under their supervision I'm sure.

If I sound frustrated, it's because I am. I can only imagine how the investigators felt because they know very well who killed JB - and they can't say because JR will sue them into oblivion - while at the same time the investigators have to literally sit back and let team R dictate the narrative --- since when do suspects get to dictate the narrative to the public?????

Bottom line: Math. 4 people went in the house. 3 came out alive. There was no intruder.

 

[CloudedTruth]

He has been begging for nearly 30 years for the BPD to wake up and find the killer of his little girl.

The Ramseys cooperated with LE -- they just did so with their attorneys present, as anyone who's been unfairly maligned by LE should do.

I have to argue that point. The Ramseys only cooperated what the law mandated they cooperate with.

Beginning on the 27th after they had given samples for DNA the cooperation came to a screeching halt. They did not sit for interviews for 4 months and only did so at that time after their attorneys negotiated having the investigation files handed over to them, which inconceivably the DA did. As a result, when they were finally interviewed they knew what the police knew, and they had 4 months to rehearse and agree to a story and what questions they were not going to answer. 4 months that everyone knows is precious time lost for such an investigation.

Any similar investigation would have started with the family, those closest to the victim, and especially in this case when those family members were present in the home when the murder occurred. If they felt maligned they have only themselves to blame. Smart to hire lawyers, of course, but to then go on speaking with the media before speaking with police? What did they hope to accomplish in moving forward the investigation with that move? It was solely to try and present themselves as victims and gain sympathy from the public, which btw spectacularly backfired. Then they hired a PR team, again all the while refusing to speak with police. As uncomfortable as it is, they should have allowed the investigation to rule them out first so that it could then focus elsewhere. JR made a point of telling everyone they knew and understood that they had to be looked at, but then went on to whine about it as being unfairly targeted.

Even their closest circle of friends started to question what they were doing. They recognized the non-cooperation as well as the changing stories and downright lies that the Ramseys were trying to push. The carefully curated press conferences to ensure no questions were really adequately answered because those questions were not allowed to be asked. It's very much like the celebrities who whine about being followed by paparazzi and unwelcome press, but then use the press for attention when it serves their purpose. The Ramseys danced with the press coverage when they wanted to and it served their purpose, but whined about it when they were playing victims. JR is still doing it to this day, after he very famously told Dr. Phil in no uncertain terms that was the last interview he would ever give and that we would never hear from him publicly again. Laughable. I just looked at my watch and wondered when and where the dog and pony show would resurface.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

3 points I gotta get out: (and I am not upset at your post at all, btw)

1) BR - even if he did it - even if he admitted to it today - is absolutely untouchable. Period. Full stop. We all know this
2) I don't give a flying flip what team Ramsey has to say about diddly squat. JR has so many changes in the story over the years it's just mind boggling...... and when pinned down on specifics, team R *ALWAYS* "can't recall" --- funny though they can recall precisely enough to keep them out of prison.....
2a) I find it absolutely comical that the bumbling idiot, JR, is careless enough to "lose" his cell phone but yet simultaneously can run a %1 billion dollar plus company. Absurd. Absolutely absurd. (cough, complete BS) especially when you consider that he loses this cell phone precisely 1 month before the murder - so there are no phone records for his cell phone for the month of December. Again, absolutely absurd BS.
3) JR is all of a sudden "begging" BPD to renew testing because *HE KNOWS* - 1) It will lead absolutely nowhere. 2) It will use up the rest of the remaining DNA so the case can never truly come back to him or his family, and 3) and most important, IMHO, *HE KNOWS* the DNA technology HAS NOT advanced to the point where there will be any new revelations...... the BPD knows this too....

Ever notice in spite of the headlines that NO ONE from an official capacity, IE: BPD, FBI, etc has come right out and said: "Yes, DNA tech has advanced significantly in the past X # of years and we will be doing new DNA testing on XYZ materials....." ????? Ever notice that???? It's only team R and clickbait headlines that ultimately lead to nothing.....no movement in the case whatsoever.

It's awfully funny to me how team R DID NOT WANT testing done on the "hair" found in the blanket UNTIL they could be sure that "other evidence" in the case would also point to the killer, because there wasn't much of the hair left to test..... but now all of a sudden they do want testing on the remaining evidence???? All under their supervision I'm sure.

If I sound frustrated, it's because I am. I can only imagine how the investigators felt because they know very well who killed JB - and they can't say because JR will sue them into oblivion - while at the same time the investigators have to literally sit back and let team R dictate the narrative --- since when do suspects get to dictate the narrative to the public?????

Bottom line: Math. 4 people went in the house. 3 came out alive. There was no intruder.

I can't agree more with every point poster has made particularly the gaslighting of Boulder PD. Well, actually, the gaslighting of the entire world. But while JR is still collecting money on the back of JBR, his media campaign is a band aid. There will come a day when someone is nearing the end of their days and they will speak. While JR performs for NetFlix, 100 more YouTubers and social media creators will pop up and reveal the facts of the case and the outright ridiculousness from the very beginning.
If it wasn't so sad, it would make a perfect " script" for a Agatha Christie film.
Murder on Stage in Three Acts.

 

[GRT]

1) BR - even if he did it - even if he admitted to it today - is absolutely untouchable. Period. Full stop. We all know this

RSBM for focus.

That's true, if BR did it, he was, and is, untouchable.

More to the point, however, is that if BR did it, and LE knew that, the investigation would have to a screeching halt 28 years ago, because there would be no further need to investigate.

2a) I find it absolutely comical that the bumbling idiot, JR, is careless enough to "lose" his cell phone but yet simultaneously can run a %1 billion dollar plus company.

I'm not sure I see any connection between someone losing their phone and being able to run a billion-dollar business.

3) JR is all of a sudden "begging" BPD to renew testing because *HE KNOWS* - 1) It will lead absolutely nowhere. 2) It will use up the rest of the remaining DNA so the case can never truly come back to him or his family, and 3) and most important, IMHO, *HE KNOWS* the DNA technology HAS NOT advanced to the point where there will be any new revelations...... the BPD knows this too....

1) DNA experts beg to disagree. They claim it is possible now to isolate the unknown male DNA that was found under JBR's fingernails and also mixed with her blood in her panties and run it through a genealogical database. 2) If the DNA is used up, how does that benefit JR since we already know it didn't belong to any of the Ramseys?

It's awfully funny to me how team R DID NOT WANT testing done on the "hair" found in the blanket UNTIL they could be sure that "other evidence" in the case would also point to the killer, because there wasn't much of the hair left to test..... but now all of a sudden they do want testing on the remaining evidence???? All under their supervision I'm sure.

There's no credible evidence that the Ramseys ever opposed testing the hair. And it was tested—years ago.

There was no intruder.

There was an intruder. At least one who murdered JonBenet. But odds are, that intruder wasn't a stranger.

 

[GRT]

I have to argue that point. The Ramseys only cooperated what the law mandated they cooperated with.

Which is what any good parents would do. They had legal representation and they followed it. Nothing amiss there.

Beginning on the 27th after they had given samples for DNA the cooperation came to a screeching halt. They did not sit for interviews for 4 months and only did so at that time after their attorneys negotiated having the investigation files handed over to them, which inconceivably the DA did. As a result, when they were finally interviewed they knew what the police knew, and they had 4 months to rehearse and agree to a story and what questions they were not going to answer. 4 months that everyone knows is precious time lost for such an investigation.

What is your source for that claim?

Any similar investigation would have started with the family, those closest to the victim, and especially in this case when those family members were present in the home when the murder occurred. If they felt maligned they have only themselves to blame. Smart to hire lawyers, of course, but to then go on speaking with the media before speaking with police? What did they hope to accomplish in moving forward the investigation with that move? It was solely to try and present themselves as victims and gain sympathy from the public, which btw spectacularly backfired. Then they hired a PR team, again all the while refusing to speak with police. As uncomfortable as it is, they should have allowed the investigation to rule them out first so that it could then focus elsewhere. JR made a point of telling everyone they knew and understood that they had to be looked at, but then went on to whine about it as being unfairly targeted.

Again, nothing amiss here. The case exploded into the international scene. Their daughter's face (hundreds of poses) was on every magazine and tabloid cover. They were hounded by the paparazzi. Just as anyone who finds themselves in a high-profile situation, they arranged interviews to (hopefully) keep the tabloid reporters from storming their home. The same thing happens with celebrities all the time.

Even their closest circle of friends started to question what they were doing. They recognized the non-cooperation as well as the changing stories and downright lies that the Ramseys were trying to push.

That was LE's fault, and it's a common LE tactic. The BPD started telling the Ramseys their friends were pointing fingers at them, and they told their friends the Ramsey's were accusing them.

That's going to destroy even the closest friendships.

JR is still doing it to this day, after he very famously told Dr. Phil in no uncertain terms that was the last interview he would ever give and that we would never hear from him publicly again. Laughable. I just looked at my watch and wondered when and where the dog and pony show would resurface.

Someone changed their mind--they must be a killer.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Which is what any good parents would do. They had legal representation and they followed it. Nothing amiss there.


What is your source for that claim?


Again, nothing amiss here. The case exploded into the international scene. Their daughter's face (hundreds of poses) was on every magazine and tabloid cover. They were hounded by the paparazzi. Just as anyone who finds themselves in a high-profile situation, they arranged interviews to (hopefully) keep the tabloid reporters from storming their home. The same thing happens with celebrities all the time.


That was LE's fault, and it's a common LE tactic. The BPD started telling the Ramseys their friends were pointing fingers at them, and they told their friends the Ramsey's were accusing them.

That's going to destroy even the closest friendships.


Someone changed their mind--they must be a killer.

Yes, I'm sure it's all LE fault that everyone didn't believe their many many contradictions. It is rather hard to believe people had a hard time believing the kidnapping, that turned into a silent murder, from an untruder that was living under the bed, who fed, dressed, penned a 3 page letter( quite possibly with JBs help) changed their mind from kidnapping to murder cuz, oh screw it. I don't need no stinking money! And then dematerialized like a ghost. Poof. Never to be found. Without a trace.....
Yeah

 

[CloudedTruth]

Which is what any good parents would do. They had legal representation and they followed it. Nothing amiss there.


What is your source for that claim?


Again, nothing amiss here. The case exploded into the international scene. Their daughter's face (hundreds of poses) was on every magazine and tabloid cover. They were hounded by the paparazzi. Just as anyone who finds themselves in a high-profile situation, they arranged interviews to (hopefully) keep the tabloid reporters from storming their home. The same thing happens with celebrities all the time.


That was LE's fault, and it's a common LE tactic. The BPD started telling the Ramseys their friends were pointing fingers at them, and they told their friends the Ramsey's were accusing them.

That's going to destroy even the closest friendships.


Someone changed their mind--they must be a killer.

I don't think hiring lawyers is limited to what a "good parent would do". That's kind of an odd statement to make. It's a smart move, of course. But a parent truly invested in finding the murderer of their child also cooperates with the investigation as guided by their counsel.

What went down on the 27th is well documented. They went to the police station to give samples. When police arrived at the Fernies to question them further, they were turned away by the plethora of friends who were there providing the layer of protection. PR was drugged out of her mind by Dr. Beuf. They answered no questions and did not agree to sit down with police until the end of April, and only after lengthy negotiations and certain terms were agreed to. Their terms.

The Ramseys went to the press first. What did they expect? They could have laid low, they chose to court the press with the CNN interview. That was a mistake. Then they proceeded to make a media circus out of the memorial service in Boulder. They publicized it, they invited the press. The congregation of the church was not happy, they felt used and rightly so. The dance was very obvious. Neither JR or PR seemed to have much awareness as to how their actions were perceived, and that remains to this day. They used the media when it served, but then turned their hatred on them as the bad guys. JR in particular harbored more hate for the media than he did for his daughter's murderer. Again, this was all for the most part self inflicted. It became the circus that it did by their invitation.

The friends were very loyal until they started noticing things on their own. LE had nothing to do with what Barb Fernie saw published in the papers put forth by the Ramseys. The finger pointing started with the Ramseys. The friendships were not destroyed by LE interference, they were destroyed by increasing distrust with the Ramseys actions and false stories they were putting out that the friends knew were false. They saw over time that things the Ramseys were claiming simply did not add up.

 

[GRT]

I don't think hiring lawyers is limited to what a "good parent would do". That's kind of an odd statement to make. It's a smart move, of course. But a parent truly invested in finding the murderer of their child also cooperates with the investigation as guided by their counsel.

Yes, and that's what their counsel guided them to do.

What went down on the 27th is well documented. They went to the police station to give samples. When police arrived at the Fernies to question them further, they were turned away by the plethora of friends who were there providing the layer of protection. PR was drugged out of her mind by Dr. Beuf. They answered no questions and did not agree to sit down with police until the end of April, and only after lengthy negotiations and certain terms were agreed to. Their terms.

It's standard practice to offer heavy medications to a mother who has just suffered the loss of a beloved child. "Drugged out of her mind" might be accurate, but it's not flattering.

And, I think everyone agrees no interview should be conducted when someone is in such a state.

The Ramseys went to the press first. What did they expect? They could have laid low, they chose to court the press with the CNN interview. That was a mistake. Then they proceeded to make a media circus out of the memorial service in Boulder. They publicized it, they invited the press. The congregation of the church was not happy, they felt used and rightly so. The dance was very obvious. Neither JR or PR seemed to have much awareness as to how their actions were perceived, and that remains to this day. They used the media when it served, but then turned their hatred on them as the bad guys. JR in particular harbored more hate for the media than he did for his daughter's murderer. Again, this was all for the most part self inflicted. It became the circus that it did by their invitation.

Again, when someone is foisted into celebrity status, they often seek to pacify the press/tabloids by offering to make an appearance rather than be hunted daily.

For the most part, the media was the bad guy. They published all manner of lies.

I agree, it became a circus. One the Ramseys did not deserve.

The friends were very loyal until they started noticing things on their own. LE had nothing to do with what Barb Fernie saw published in the papers put forth by the Ramseys. The finger pointing started with the Ramseys. The friendships were not destroyed by LE interference, they were destroyed by increasing distrust with the Ramseys actions and false stories they were putting out that the friends knew were false. They saw over time that things the Ramseys were claiming simply did not add up.

Long before Fernie saw anything published, LE was pitting friend against friend. LE got the finger-pointing started. After that, it was a snowball gathering bulk and speed.

 

[GRT]

Yes, I'm sure it's all LE fault that everyone didn't believe their many many contradictions. It is rather hard to believe people had a hard time believing the kidnapping, that turned into a silent murder, from an untruder that was living under the bed, who fed, dressed, penned a 3 page letter( quite possibly with JBs help) changed their mind from kidnapping to murder cuz, oh screw it. I don't need no stinking money! And then dematerialized like a ghost. Poof. Never to be found. Without a trace.....
Yeah

Absolutely, they were set up.

 

[Zodiac_Speaking]

@GRT - I simply don't find your posts to be credible.

I'm out.

 

[GRT]

@GRT - I simply don't find your posts to be credible.

I'm out.

Okay.

Have a nice day!

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Absolutely, they were set up.

Or maybe the friends had an above average IQ