GUILTY IL - Antinette 'Toni' Keller, 18, DeKalb, NIU Student, 14 October 2010

[trigger]

I don't understand how DNA can be degraded by burning in a bon fire. I was under the impression that you can not really burn a body in a fire unless the heat reaches 1500 °F. So even though her body may burned beyond recognition, they should still be able to identify it. Remember the pregnant marine that was burned in the fire pit by her "boyfriend". They were even able to identify the baby.

ITA ..On 9/11 attack they were able to Id people so...IDK

 

[eyes4crime]

I don't understand how DNA can be degraded by burning in a bon fire. I was under the impression that you can not really burn a body in a fire unless the heat reaches 1500 °F. So even though her body may burned beyond recognition, they should still be able to identify it. Remember the pregnant marine that was burned in the fire pit by her "boyfriend". They were even able to identify the baby.

Hopefully, DeKalb brought in a forensic Medical Examiner with experience. Maybe, somewhere in all all those bones, there is a smiget of DNA that could be tested for positive ID so parents can have peace of mind. moo

I do remember the pregnant Marine, wasn't it through the baby DNA evidence was found?

What kind of perp predator would know the temp that destroys DNA in bones? How would he know how long to expose the bones to intense heat to destroy DNA? I don't think Crematory heat destroys teeth, and they have DNA in them...where are the teeth? moo

How do we know (I hate to write this) that the predator doesn't take the body, leave someone elses bones surrounded with personal items of the missing person? How can we rule that out? moo mho

 

[SuziQ]

Seems to be a short time between the disappearance and discovery to have accomplished what this perp did. JMO.

 

[truthsleuth]

OK, another view of Prairie Park, this time from Bing Maps (the earlier map was from Google Maps). Can someone answer the following questions?

1. Is that a road OR a walking path running through the park?
2. Do you know where the fireplaces are stationed within the park?
3. Is there an actual park entrance by the the area marked "Toni last seen here" in the previous map?

Thank you for any help anyone can give me.

 

[dreamweaver]

...In cases of extreme fire impact, only hard tissues (bones, teeth) may be left for DNA analysis. DNA extracted from burnt bone fragments may be highly degraded, making an amplification of genetic markers difficult or even impossible. Furthermore, heavily burnt bones are very prone to contamination with external DNA.

We investigated whether authentic DNA profiles can be generated from human bones showing different stages of fire induced destruction (well preserved, semi-burnt, black burnt, blue–grey burnt, blue–grey–white burnt). DNA was extracted from 71 bone fragments derived from 13 individuals. Obtained genetic patterns (STRs and mtDNA sequences) were compared to the genetic pattern of the respective bodies.

...identification via DNA analysis is reliably and reproducibly possible from well preserved and semi-burnt bones. In black burnt bones the DNA was highly degraded and in some cases no nuclear DNA was left, leaving mitochondrial DNA analysis as an option. Blue–grey burnt bones lead only sporadically to authentic profiles. The investigation of blue–grey–white burnt bones barely led to reliable results.
Forensic Science International: Genetics published 2010 http://bit.ly/cpzpFF

In a local case, a man was murdered, his cabin set on fire and only his charred remains were left. Local medical examiner could have identified him by dental records, but none were available.
His official identity was confirmed by the the national dna lab in TX;
The University of North Texas Health Science Center.

 

[Joe Friday]

This from Wikipedia.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cremation

A cremator is an industrial furnace capable of generating temperatures of 870–980 °C (1,598–1,796 °F) to ensure disintegration of the corpse.

(Snipped)

The time required for cremation thus varies from body to body, and in modern furnaces may be as fast as one hour per 45 kilograms (99 lb) of body weight.

________________________

My thoughts on this is the killer assaulted Antinette during the day, killed her and hid her body in the brush returning later that evening in the cover of darkness to dispose of her when there would be no one or less people in the park.

A good bon fire will burn around 1500+ degrees F. From the pictures on fb Antinette was not a very large girl. So I would think if the perp dismembered the body it would take less then a few hours to be burn the body to just ash and bones according to what is said on Wikipedia.

If there are homeless camps near by in the same park someone with a fire would not stand out that much IMO. Does anyone know how close the remains were found to the fireplace area that was mentioned earlier in this thread or if there are camping sites in this park that would have fire pits or rings?

 

[Soul125]

I haven't been to the park in years. It seems it has gone downhill since I visited last. I have read comments from several people about homeless people there. That would creep me out I think. Why would the local LE allow them to be there?:waitasec:

Here is an interesting comment I noticed posted below a Tribune article.

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/...scheduled-in-case-of-missing-niu-student.html

"I was at that park not more than two weeks before this happened. I believe it was a homeless person who committed this act. When I was there I saw evidence of homeless people including burnt out fires, broken Everclear bottles and even their feces left behind.
I did feel a little unsafe, especially after I saw some pretty shady characters who looked like they were homeless. This park is very close to the train tracks too.
It is so disturbing that this happened at the same park I was walking around in not long before this happened and in the middle of the day!
It's sad to say, but the probability they will catch the homeless person who did this is low. The person is probably far from the area already. "

 

[Claudette]

Read in an article today that LE would not comment on excellerant being found on the body, or if the burning happened post-mortem.

Some random thoughts:
- I would like to know if her ex is a student at the school.
- Now we know why LE told students that it was too dangerous for them to search
- This reminds me sooo much of Morgan Harrington. They look alike, were both described as artsy free-spirits and disappeared at schools that had seen horrific gun violence

He declined to answer questions as to whether there was an accelerant involved or if burning was the cause of death.
http://plainfield.patch.com/articles/remains-found-in-dekalb-woods-were-burned-beyond-recognition-police-say

Also, so far 50 people have been talked to.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/26/toni-keller-investigation_n_774183.html

-it may take several more days before a positive ID can be made (sounds like they think it's still possible then).
-All indications are, he said, that the homicide likely took place in the park.
http://plainfield.patch.com/articles/remains-found-in-dekalb-woods-were-burned-beyond-recognition-police-say

-"We've interviewed more than 50 people," he said. "Some more than once."
-The remains were found in a secluded area where dozens of campfires and bonfires are routinely built. "It's not unusual to smell smoke there," the chief said.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/Dekalb-Police-to-Break-Silence-on-NIU-Case-105762763.html#ixzz13VjSH4Cj

The wooded area is just a few feet from a bike and walking path in the park.
http://www.examiner.com/crime-in-chicago/police-niu-toni-keller-case-now-a-homicide-remains-too-badly-burned-for-id

"Remember it was homecoming weekend& This is a heavily used park."
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=7746078

For some reason Texas is doing a lot of reporting on this case, not sure why. If you do a Google news search for "DeKalb news" local places pop up with their own sections, and so does Texas. :waitasec:

 

[Claudette]

One of the missing Chicago women mentioned previously was found alive, btw.

 

[italianangel2411]

Yes I believe there is a bike path that goes through the park. I looked it up on the map

 

[italianangel2411]

Do you know which one was found alive, which women? Thanks by the way.
It is important that they are talking to some people more than once. I think they are hoping to get information from the public to aid in who did this to her. I wonder why they think this is a isolated event..they don't really know that..I mean the perp is still on the loose and its possible that there will be more victims. I hope there isn't.

 

[italianangel2411]

http://media.nbcchicago.com/images/niu-vigil.jpg
PICTURE of the vigil tonight

 

[italianangel2411]

they played pink floyd wish you were here at the gathering tonight. i listened to the song and the lyrics..made me cry..breaks my heart
why is there so much hate in this world we live in? why can't everyone just get along and have love and laughter in this world. people would be much happier

 

[italianangel2411]

just observed some photos of her that I did not see before on the facebook page..she is holding a cigarette in a lot of her photos..so I am sure she had a liter and cigarettes with her in the park....could the perp use her liter to burn her?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

OK, another view of Prairie Park, this time from Bing Maps (the earlier map was from Google Maps). Can someone answer the following questions?

1. Is that a road OR a walking path running through the park?
2. Do you know where the fireplaces are stationed within the park?
3. Is there an actual park entrance by the the area marked "Toni last seen here" in the previous map?

Thank you for any help anyone can give me.

I read this article earlier today. The writer says you can enter Prairie Park at Clifford (which looks opposite from where Toni was last seen). There must be an entrance on the other side too. There is a picture of the footbridge in the link (someone else posted it earlier too).

http://www.traillink.com/trail/dekalb-nature-trail.aspx

Another person describing the area ~ http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=423724

 

[truthsleuth]

I read this article earlier today. The writer says you can enter Prairie Park at Clifford (which looks opposite from where Toni was last seen). There must be an entrance on the other side too. There is a picture of the footbridge in the link (someone else posted it earlier too).

http://www.traillink.com/trail/dekalb-nature-trail.aspx

Another person describing the area ~ http://www.everytrail.com/view_trip.php?trip_id=423724

Thank you for the information, Woe.be.gone. Much appreciated!

Also I want to correct something: Junction Station, mentioned in an earlier map as where Toni was last seen, should be Junction Shopping Center. My error, sorry everyone.

 

[eyes4crime]

NBC News Chicago tonight at 10P:

...showed video of the beautiful candle light vigil tonight at the university

...cousin Mary was talking to students and deceased Toni...mom and dad were too upset to attend.

...cousin Mary says Toni's dad sends a kiss for every single message sent to him. They have read each and every one and appreciate all the effort.

Camus on high alert with extra security

Apparently LE still maintains that this crime is an isolate incident.

My comment: If they can't identify the body how and the heck do they know this is an isolated incident? Who knows where this predator hangs out? moo mho
That's it for now!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

What if after all of this the bones aren't Toni's? :waitasec:
Everything seems backwards to me.

I studied google and other maps for the longest time and I still can't picture the route she walked, etc. I don't think I ever left campus on foot unless to go home to my apartment that was a few blocks from campus (right off of Annie Glidden Rd). Not that any of that matters but I don't think heading out on your own toward town was a good idea even back then.

I sure hope they are able to figure out what happened to this young woman who had her whole life ahead of her. What is wrong with these sick people who don't value life? I'll never understand the misery people are willing and able to cause others. For what? That's what makes them happy? Sick, just sick. When we know of a person like this, we should take them out back and shoot 'um. I'm sorry but I'm so tired of hearing about all of these terrible things happening to children and women and boys too. You might say, well then you are just like them. I say I'm not. Loose the scum bags once and for all. How many times do we hear over and over that another person is harmed by someone released from prison. And the good guys are just helpless in this world of Russian roulette? My heart breaks for this family and all the others who have had to endure their lives being changed by evil people who obviously live in darkness. Isn't there somewhere we can drop these people and let them kill each other? :furious::furious:

 

[Noway]

If the remains have not been officially identified, why do we have Found Deceased in the thread title? I understand that LE believes the remains are hers, but still ... somehow it makes it more heartbreaking to me.

 

[Laddsy]

Yeah I agree that it should be taken off until the remains are identified