IL IL - John Wayne Gacy

  • #141
I don't think it should come to a surprise to anyone that the same guy who was more or less saying the whole Norman angle couldn't be right because 'no evidence' was ever found also would make the argument that Michael Aquino was just 'misunderstood' because 'no evidence' to the contrary was ever found

You very well may be right, but, you consistently seem to expect smoking guns (with prints and DNA on em) to be produced before you will admit that anything could have happened

The problems with that are numerous, including that the perpetrators could possibly have been good at covering their tracks, could have had help from influential people to do so, and pre-DNA law enforcement wasn't always the most sophisticated

Take Bonacci for instance, of course a lot of what he said can't be proven, how could it be? Everything they did to him and the girl who they threw in prison was done to discredit them as 'criminal drug addicts who will say anything'

Writing off everything without hard evidence is doing exactly what "they" want you to do, and this is how most of the general public thinks about these things, so "they" get exactly what they want and no one ever gets found out
Asking for evidence is not an unreasonable request. The complete lack of evidence in most of these cases and the fact that people are rehashing debunked hoaxes is straying into QAnon territory which shouldn't be something anyone wants to be part of.

You can accuse anyone of anything by this logic it's completely worthless without evidence. You can't disprove a negative it's the burden of those making the accusations to prove them not the other way round.
 
  • #142
Great post Moev

Bonacci is a very interesting piece to all of this, I know a lot of people doubt him, but he did bring them to the place he described in Colorado

Another name we haven't mentioned in this is Michael Aquino, possible/probable devil worshipping masochist who may have been behind the Colorado leg of the operation and who also had ties to more dirt going on in the Bay Area decades earlier
This is part of my problem with a lot of what Noreen says, she had originally tied Aquino to what happened.

When you read her new update of the book she still has mentions here or there of the colonel being Michael Aquino. But then in the updated section of the book mentions that the colonel is Norman as he had used this name at one point. Interestingly Michael Rossi mentioned Gacy used it too.

I know Aquino has a book out there he wrote about the McMartin scandal and though I have a copy of it I've never dug into it.. which is something I need to do. But I truly can't say if I think or don't think he was involved in Gosch or anything occurring in Colorado.

I have read Mindwar by Aquino and I interpreted it as almost a playbook for a pacifistic way to take out war, using psychology over any physical harm to individuals. I think a lot of his ideas have been misconstrued from that book.
 
  • #143
Anyway, since we are on the topic of John Wayne Gacy and accomplices has anyone read into the background on the John Mowery disappearance?
 
  • #144
In every move when it comes to Norman, and whoever else was working with him, there seems to be a quick action of "shut it down and debunk." The Franklin scandal is another example. Was there actually something going on? We will never know because it was shut down and the only people they point to have had a campaign to discredit them. There is a lot of smoke in all of these situations and because of powerful people, you will never get anything but "Oh they were a drug addict, oh they are a criminal. Sammy Gravano was a murderer of 19 people, but what he said about Gotti was true.

Maybe taking a look 20, 30, 40 years later might uncover that there was something going on. Maybe not to the extent that people think, but it could be even bigger than we know. That's the real truth.....we don't know and the people saying "Nothing to see here" might have a reason for shutting it down. Thousands of index cards with powerful people on them.....nothing to see here. Warehouse full of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬......nothing to see here. Questionable behavior, and rich and powerful friends with the president of a savings and loan......move along it's a drug addict accusing. Ties to people that have links to two serial killers operating in similar ways......oh that's fiction.
Franklin scandal, Pizza gate, Epstein, Norman, all shut down fast and moving along.

I have a friend who is from Australia. They have agents who handle sex crimes for the government. They are not allowed to even tell their spouses that they work in this agency. The suicide rate is enormous for these agents. He says that it is set up that way so if something comes out about high ranking government officials its easy to make it go away.

I think we are quick to just shut down any questions because "someone" in a position of power said there was nothing. The Hollywood studios had fixers for a reason.
 
  • #145
In every move when it comes to Norman, and whoever else was working with him, there seems to be a quick action of "shut it down and debunk." The Franklin scandal is another example. Was there actually something going on? We will never know because it was shut down and the only people they point to have had a campaign to discredit them. There is a lot of smoke in all of these situations and because of powerful people, you will never get anything but "Oh they were a drug addict, oh they are a criminal. Sammy Gravano was a murderer of 19 people, but what he said about Gotti was true.

Maybe taking a look 20, 30, 40 years later might uncover that there was something going on. Maybe not to the extent that people think, but it could be even bigger than we know. That's the real truth.....we don't know and the people saying "Nothing to see here" might have a reason for shutting it down. Thousands of index cards with powerful people on them.....nothing to see here. Warehouse full of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬......nothing to see here. Questionable behavior, and rich and powerful friends with the president of a savings and loan......move along it's a drug addict accusing. Ties to people that have links to two serial killers operating in similar ways......oh that's fiction.
Franklin scandal, Pizza gate, Epstein, Norman, all shut down fast and moving along.

I have a friend who is from Australia. They have agents who handle sex crimes for the government. They are not allowed to even tell their spouses that they work in this agency. The suicide rate is enormous for these agents. He says that it is set up that way so if something comes out about high ranking government officials its easy to make it go away.

I think we are quick to just shut down any questions because "someone" in a position of power said there was nothing. The Hollywood studios had fixers for a reason.
The thing with Gravano and other Mafia Informants is their deal to avoid prosecution requires them to tell the truth. If it turns out they lied LE can renege on the deal and prosecute them this typically results in reliable witnesses. There's nothing like that for any of these conspiracy witnesses like Paul Bonacci their claims have nothing behind them.

I agree with you on some of the coverups there definitely was but i don't think it was an overarching nationwide conspiracy i think it was much lower level than that we see those kinds of coverups all the time. The FBI mention the index cards in Paske's FBI Files and it was two State Department Employees that concerned them it wasn't the President, his whole Administration, every Governor, it was two State Department Employees iirc they were middle management which was still concerning but it very much sounds like it was two random pedo's who just so happened to work for the Government.

Unfortunately there's a lot of child abusers out there and some of them have good jobs including Government ones. Dennis Hastert the former Speaker of the House and thus one of the most powerful US Politicians was convicted of child sex crimes. If there's this massive coordinated effort to abuse kids by the Government with nationwide coverups then why wasn't he protected? That dude was third in the line of succession. Had Bush and Cheney died at the same time he'd have been President and he didn't benefit from this massive conspiracy.
 
  • #146
Asking for evidence is not an unreasonable request. The complete lack of evidence in most of these cases and the fact that people are rehashing debunked hoaxes is straying into QAnon territory which shouldn't be something anyone wants to be part of.

You can accuse anyone of anything by this logic it's completely worthless without evidence. You can't disprove a negative it's the burden of those making the accusations to prove them not the other way round.

You can't compare it to QAnon because the 1970's arent the 2020's

They aren't debunked hoaxes, they are only considered debunked by you because you live in the 2020's and have unreasonable expectations for evidence from things that happened behind closed doors fifty years ago that powerful people may have put a ton of effort into hiding

Case in point:

I know Aquino has a book out there he wrote about the McMartin scandal and though I have a copy of it I've never dug into it.. which is something I need to do. But I truly can't say if I think or don't think he was involved in Gosch or anything occurring in Colorado.

I have read Mindwar by Aquino and I interpreted it as almost a playbook for a pacifistic way to take out war, using psychology over any physical harm to individuals. I think a lot of his ideas have been misconstrued from that book.


You seem to take his words in his own books at face value.... guess what guy... pieces of 🤬🤬🤬🤬 might lie about being pieces of 🤬🤬🤬🤬, and they might also try to hide the fact that they are pieces of 🤬🤬🤬🤬, and some of them may have been very good at doing just that

Its like you would only every say Aquino was who some think he was if he admitted (which he was never going to do) or if you saw a video of it (which he may have been smart enough to ever be in)

You can't learn anything about what these people do privately from what he or "they" choose to tell us publicly


There's nothing like that for any of these conspiracy witnesses like Paul Bonacci their claims have nothing behind them.

Then how did he take them to the house in Colorado with the hidden underground bunker and the writing on the wall?

And once again you state 'their claims have nothing behind them' because the people in power who are able to cover this all up are saying so, I mean, did you get every covid vaccine and booster possible? Are you still getting them? Because that is what the people in power recommend


The FBI mention the index cards in Paske's FBI Files and it was two State Department Employees that concerned them it wasn't the President, his whole Administration, every Governor, it was two State Department Employees iirc they were middle management which was still concerning but it very much sounds like it was two random pedo's who just so happened to work for the Government.

Oh, well the people who would be hurt by the real truth are saying their own truth, and guess what, once again, nothing to see here just move along



Dennis Hastert the former Speaker of the House and thus one of the most powerful US Politicians was convicted of child sex crimes. If there's this massive coordinated effort to abuse kids by the Government with nationwide coverups then why wasn't he protected?


Maybe he was caught red handed, maybe he didnt play ball with the real people in power, maybe they wanted to send a message, maybe maybe maybe


Has the 🤬🤬🤬🤬 show the world has become since covid not taught you anything? That whole thing was handled in first a 'how can we pretend this isn't happening' way keeping the public in the dark and making their situations worse before it pivoted to a 'how can we profit off this as much as possible and position ourselves as best we can before the impending financial doom' way, I mean, they were telling people with one of the deadlier viruses of our life time to just stay home and do nothing, to wait on a for profit vaccine that was coming a year later, while at the same time prescribing as many other meds for as many other far less important things as possible

If they will blatantly do that in front of all of our eyes you don't think they could cover up other things?
 
  • #147
You can't compare it to QAnon because the 1970's arent the 2020's

They aren't debunked hoaxes, they are only considered debunked by you because you live in the 2020's and have unreasonable expectations for evidence from things that happened behind closed doors fifty years ago that powerful people may have put a ton of effort into hiding

Case in point:

I know Aquino has a book out there he wrote about the McMartin scandal and though I have a copy of it I've never dug into it.. which is something I need to do. But I truly can't say if I think or don't think he was involved in Gosch or anything occurring in Colorado.

I have read Mindwar by Aquino and I interpreted it as almost a playbook for a pacifistic way to take out war, using psychology over any physical harm to individuals. I think a lot of his ideas have been misconstrued from that book.


You seem to take his words in his own books at face value.... guess what guy... pieces of 🤬🤬🤬🤬 might lie about being pieces of 🤬🤬🤬🤬, and they might also try to hide the fact that they are pieces of 🤬🤬🤬🤬, and some of them may have been very good at doing just that

Its like you would only every say Aquino was who some think he was if he admitted (which he was never going to do) or if you saw a video of it (which he may have been smart enough to ever be in)

You can't learn anything about what these people do privately from what he or "they" choose to tell us publicly


There's nothing like that for any of these conspiracy witnesses like Paul Bonacci their claims have nothing behind them.

Then how did he take them to the house in Colorado with the hidden underground bunker and the writing on the wall?

And once again you state 'their claims have nothing behind them' because the people in power who are able to cover this all up are saying so, I mean, did you get every covid vaccine and booster possible? Are you still getting them? Because that is what the people in power recommend


The FBI mention the index cards in Paske's FBI Files and it was two State Department Employees that concerned them it wasn't the President, his whole Administration, every Governor, it was two State Department Employees iirc they were middle management which was still concerning but it very much sounds like it was two random pedo's who just so happened to work for the Government.

Oh, well the people who would be hurt by the real truth are saying their own truth, and guess what, once again, nothing to see here just move along



Dennis Hastert the former Speaker of the House and thus one of the most powerful US Politicians was convicted of child sex crimes. If there's this massive coordinated effort to abuse kids by the Government with nationwide coverups then why wasn't he protected?

Maybe he was caught red handed, maybe he didnt play ball with the real people in power, maybe they wanted to send a message, maybe maybe maybe


Has the 🤬🤬🤬🤬 show the world has become since covid not taught you anything? That whole thing was handled in first a 'how can we pretend this isn't happening' way keeping the public in the dark and making their situations worse before it pivoted to a 'how can we profit off this as much as possible and position ourselves as best we can before the impending financial doom' way, I mean, they were telling people with one of the deadlier viruses of our life time to just stay home and do nothing, to wait on a for profit vaccine that was coming a year later, while at the same time prescribing as many other meds for as many other far less important things as possible

If they will blatantly do that in front of all of our eyes you don't think they could cover up other things?
I never mentioned his book why on earth are you mentioning me in connection with it? That's a strawman in fact your posts are full of Ad Homs.

McMartin, Franklin, QAnon, Pizzagate are debunked conclusively. Norman and the various theories related to him aren't.

Hastert directly contradicts your paranoid narrative and you don't have a satisfactory answer for it he was one of the most powerful Politicians in America, if these things existed he would have plenty of knowledge of it and could easily blackmail powerful people to protect him. He didn't and he also wasn't killed he was convicted and ruined he is very inconvenient for your claims.

You also don't have any kind of evidence for any of your theories, ideas. As i said earlier with your logic you can accuse anyone of anything and you often do exactly that.
 
  • #148
So because they took down 1 politician for SA on a child we can say that the entire government is up front and straight forward? As soon as the heat started to hit Barney Frank he retired and everything was shut down. There are some people in government who are protected and used by what the government knows about them.
It is easy to shut down an investigation, they just 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 it and move investigators, and say there is nothing to it. A great example is in New Mexico with Tara Calico. People in town have said for years that they knew who was involved, and one is a relative of the chief of police. So nothing has been done until recently when a new Chief took over but most of the evidence is gone.

As soon as authorities say there is nothing to see, I become more interested.
 
  • #149
So because they took down 1 politician for SA on a child we can say that the entire government is up front and straight forward? As soon as the heat started to hit Barney Frank he retired and everything was shut down. There are some people in government who are protected and used by what the government knows about them.
It is easy to shut down an investigation, they just 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 it and move investigators, and say there is nothing to it. A great example is in New Mexico with Tara Calico. People in town have said for years that they knew who was involved, and one is a relative of the chief of police. So nothing has been done until recently when a new Chief took over but most of the evidence is gone.

As soon as authorities say there is nothing to see, I become more interested.
Stop with the strawmen no one said that. There's plenty of scumbags in the Government. The point is is there's not a nationwide Government Conspiracy to sell kids out of pizza places. There are coverups but they are much smaller scale like the one in your example which ftr is shaky if you look into it. We have no idea what happened to Tara we have a Chief responding to rumours, there's been countless other rumours over the years. The accused is dead ftr and has been for a long time,
 
  • #150
I never mentioned his book why on earth are you mentioning me in connection with it? That's a strawman in fact your posts are full of Ad Homs.

McMartin, Franklin, QAnon, Pizzagate are debunked conclusively. Norman and the various theories related to him aren't.

Hastert directly contradicts your paranoid narrative and you don't have a satisfactory answer for it he was one of the most powerful Politicians in America, if these things existed he would have plenty of knowledge of it and could easily blackmail powerful people to protect him. He didn't and he also wasn't killed he was convicted and ruined he is very inconvenient for your claims.

You also don't have any kind of evidence for any of your theories, ideas. As i said earlier with your logic you can accuse anyone of anything and you often do exactly that.
Fair enough, I shouldn't have mentioned you with Aquino, I got confused about who said what

Franklin scandal has not been debunked conclusively, people like you just choose to only believe things that have video or DNA for some reason

Let me ask you this? Have you ever seen your parents having sex? Does that mean they never did? Or, just maybe, could they do it in private behind closed doors and no one else has any clue what the F they are doing behind those doors

Hastert happened in the 2000's after the internet, if you think the 2000's internet world is the same as the 1970's then you are delusional, which is what all of my 'strawman' arguments are trying to show

The whole covid rant was because THEY JUST DID ALL THAT CRAP AND MORE IN THE INTERNET ERA AROUND THE BIGGEST WORLD EVENT OF OUR LIFETIME WITH ALL EYES ON THEM AND WITH NO SHAME NOR CONSEQUENCES

And you don't think powerful people were pulling the same kind of shenanigans before the internet? And for things that happened behind closed doors that are 10000000000x easier to cover up than what they just did?

Also, please show me where I have ever said a thing about pizza gate or any trafficking post the Norman timeline, I haven't, until now:


Because you said this:

There are coverups but they are much smaller scale like the one in your example

You mean like Epstein? That sure seems small in scale doesnt it? Not like it has been major world news for a decade, and we still dont know any more about the other conspirators than we did a decade ago

I am sure you will just write that off as 'there is no evidence of any other conspirators' tho, cuz its easier to just trust the official narrative then use your own brain and logically think things through


I would also like to ask you to please show me where "I often accuse anyone of anything"

Again, I will wait (and probably wait awhile, because both of the things I am waiting for have "no evidence" so they didnt happen)
 
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  • #151
J Edgar Hoover had files on politicians to a point that people that hated him kept him in office. Nixon wanted those files and did everything he could to get them after Hoover died. Using children to get politicians and other people to "fall in line" is absolutely possible and likely!
 
  • #152
J Edgar Hoover had files on politicians to a point that people that hated him kept him in office. Nixon wanted those files and did everything he could to get them after Hoover died. Using children to get politicians and other people to "fall in line" is absolutely possible and likely!
Hoover himself was blackmailed, he was tied into Guy Strait and Billy Byars Jr operations. Strait had called him a closet queen in his publications, but It's mentioned in one of the books on Hoover that he had been abusing underage kids. There's also tons of evidence of Hoover being tied to the Byars family, their tied into child trafficking and JFK.

There was some gay publications when he died that also pose the theory further that he was gay as there was a lot of talk around the time about him being gay. He had also left his fortune to the guy below him who's name I forgot, but some believed they were lovers.
 
  • #153
In October we're supposed to get a new John Wayne Gacy film and supposedly one episode features Phillip Paske? Yet no mention of Michael Rossi, which multiple people came forward with testimonies in recent years of having said he was involved in John Mowery's disappearance. There was also a guy he had assaulted in the early 80s who had been interviewed who said he had talked of being involved, the people who knew Mowery also said he talked about this and was very apprehensive about notifying Mowery's family about his disappearance.
 
  • #154
By the way guys, I have just launched a fiction book that was very inspired by all of this, it is called The Wrong Kind Of Perverts and you should be able to find it free on Amazon for the next week or three (doing a bunch of 5 day free promos)

I am quite sure anyone who is interested in this topic will enjoy it and pick up on tons of little nuggets throughout, sorry for the self promotion, but hey, at least I didn't put a link :)
 
  • #155
This is an interesting article https://www.thehotstar.net/odysseynetwork.html

On August 13th detectives then called Dallas PD to inform them of the possibility connection between their case and Dallas.10

The very next day, on August 14th, Dallas PD received a tip from an anonymous informant about a man running a mail-order child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and prostitution service out of his Dallas apartment. Acting on this, they arrested a 45 year old man named John David Norman found at the address in the company of five teenaged boys, and from inside the apartment seized photographic equipment and child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬. In addition to this it had been filled with enough publishing stationary, files, and literature to fill an entire van, all pertaining to an organization called “The Odyssey Foundation”. Amongst the files were thousands of index cards with names and addresses reportedly “listing clients around the country, some of them prominent people and some federal employees in Washington”.11 12 13 14 15

Mail correspondence from the apartment had been forwarded through a post office box registered in San Diego to organization called The Odyssey Foundation. The foundation ostensibly operated as a non-profit mentorship program of adult ‘sponsors’ providing lodging and travel expenses to out of State boy ‘fellows’ for educational visits. The 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and profiles of available boys would be listed like classified ads within the foundations literature sent to subscribers, who could then arrange for a boy they liked to come visit them for an extra fee. The operation spanned from coast to coast across the United States using mostly young runaways who’d be sent interstate, making them reliant on the men who ordered them for room and board. The service had been popular amongst child pornographers who sought an influx of ’fresh talent’ to use in their photographs and films.


Found within the apartment used as the nexus to facilitate this trafficking ring had been pictures of boys marked with details such as their age and personality quirks. Among these had been four with the word “kill” written on them.16

Supposedly these had also been found by the informant who’d tipped off Dallas PD. They’d heard news of murdered boys in Houston and panicked after then receiving a call from someone requesting the networks services there.

johnnorman_dp.jpg

John D. Norman
To clarify the chain of events covered so far:

On August 8th Houston police discovered a mass grave of boys murdered by Dean Corll and two teenaged accomplices, Wayne Henley and David Brooks.

On August 9th both Henley and Brooks gave independent statements Dean Corll had claimed to belong to an organisation based in Dallas involved in trafficking boys and the same murderous activities.

On August 11th Houston police discovered a private post office box Dean Corll was thought to have used to ‘secretively’ receive 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 through the mail.17 18

On August 13th Houston police contacted Dallas PD regarding a possible link to their case in Dallas.

On August 14th detectives in Dallas bust an interstate boy trafficking network facilitated by a man named John David Norman using the postal service. And in his apartment they found four photographs of boys with the word “kill” written on them.

Possible links between the murders in Houston and the network in Dallas were alluded to in the press but never properly substantiated. All that was publicly known, was the tip received on the trafficking network in Dallas had come from an informant spooked by the murders in Houston. And in the apartment of the man running the network in Dallas, four photographs of boys had been found with the word ‘kill’ written on them. As it was expressed by the New York Times, “Assistant Police Chief Donald Steele reported that four pictures of young boys found in the apartment had the word “Kill” written on them. However, the police said they were told the word referred to their removal from the procurement ring's literature because they were uncooperative and did not mean they had been ordered killed.”.
My take is this: Dean had mentioned a "Dallas-based trafficking ring" to Brooks and Henley in 1971. John Norman was in California jail at the time and wouldn't be out until 1972. Considering that Corll was involved with Roy Ames at the time, it is possible that there was a kernel of truth there. As far as I am concerned, Norman was operating in California starting in the late 50s. It is possible he had prior operations in Dallas prior to his 1970 arrest, but it wasn't the Odyssey Foundation. (It is rumored that he let Jack Ruby rent a Dallas apartment, though I am unsure if it was him). Assuming he started the Odyssey Foundation in 1972, there is no way he would rack up 30,000 clients so quickly. My guess is that he retains clients from previous trafficking organizations. Dean did tell Brooks that some of the victims were supposed to have been sent to California. Well, Roy Ames had an operation sending boys to and from Houston and California. It is more than likely Norman knew of Corll and Ames, having grown up in Houston. Birds of a feather flock together as they say. Crazy how history repeats itself with the Epstein coverup
 
  • #156
Hey guys, I read through all of this and thought I should post a summary here so you don't have to spend that much time looking through it yourself

Full disclosure, I have been working on a crime fiction book on human trafficking in the 60's and 70's, it is pretty much written, if anyone wants a free copy send me a DM and that will be no problem

Anyways, here is what stood out in that article to me, the book I wrote has a lot to do with New Orleans so that is why they are included:

NORMAN STUFF

I opposed certain boy-sex schemes I knew about such as Father Bud Yermyle's Welcome Wagon deal, the political-motives of Guy Strait and his pushing of sex with very young boys, the "cadet" rackets of the Oddysy Foundation, and others.

Delta Project had 35,000 to 45,000 members across the nation, the Don Program, can hire a "cadet", $50 a month, then rent out to others in their area, and Norman would get a cut

Norman also had the Cross Country Program where you could fly somewhere for a quick encounter, but got shut down quickly when he got arrested in Illinois

John Norman has had similar projects before. He has set up John Norman Odyssey Foundation out of Dallas, Tex, He has set up the Oonquest Agency out of San Diego, Demalco International out of San Diego, and he set up Sex 2 publications out of St. Louis, Mo.

When he was in the Cook County Jail he published a newsletter called the John Norman Newsletter. This was to get in]nates to give him money for his cause for setting up these type of foundations so that he could get up his bail money to get out on the outside and get new clientele for his operation.

I think that is what happened and about that very time was the time that the Illinois obscenity law was thought by many to be unconstitutional and ultimately several months ago, about a year ago, it was declared unconstitutional. Therefore, the individuals felt more secure in selling this type of material openly. (my note, this also perfectly coincides with Norman showing up in Chicago)

I believe the only type of material that I had ever seen in the past always seemed to be and appeared to be of foreign origin^ but in the last 18 months I was talking about there is a proliferation of what appear to be more domestic type of material.

I would like to read one statement by John Norman describing himself. "I am a nonviolent person, who has never found it necessary to force anyone to do anything, but I am persuasive, and I have a certain charm for young people."


When you enrolled as part of the Delta Project, did you have direct communication with him ?

Mr. Lehman. I did receive all his newsletters and publications, but my only communications were with his partner, Phil Paski. That was over the telephone.


Norman keeps his own files on anyone who will subscribe to him. He has had them for years. He has a system set up that he will send them a membership card. The membership card has a little star on it. It might be red. It might be blue. It changes from time to time. If it is red, it means he is a member. He gets Norman's pamphlets. If it is blue — I am just throwing out different colors right now — but if it is blue, that means he not only gets pamphlets, but he has contacted him by telephone and has shown an interest in making arrangements to meet a young individual. Another color is used if the individual has indeed used a child on occasion for a weekend or what have you. Another color, final color, would be used if a person has either set up a dormitorv or has an apartment building, and is letting children stay there between their tours back and forth to the other individuals.

He related to me when John Norman was arrested out there, they confiscated 40,000 index cards (clients)

Mr. Lehman. Yes. These cards were then forwarded to the State Department in "Washington. I have since contacted the State Department in Washington to see if I could get a copy of his files, and the files are no longer there. I don't know if they ever received them or not. They just told me that they didn't have the files.

We asked the State Department to check into it and they say that they shredded the 35,000 cards in 1974 because they couldn't find any use for them. They didn't pertain to their department.

the first question they asked was, "Why us? "Why not the Justice Department?" The State Department took some time to investigate and their response to us was yes, that they had indeed received the cards, and the information they received with the cards had been shredded and destroyed. Apparently the reason was because they could find no passport fraud violation. That was the response we received. (from William Minitz)

There was also some information there that some passports were issued for taking a boy across the seas and into another country. (norman)

These lists are both from Norman: essentially, the Dallas 35,000 as well as the 5,000 here locally; is that correct?


When I was in Los Angeles talking to police officials there, they were very familiar with Mr. Norman. I might add that Mr. Strait, who testified before you today, was very familiar with Mr. Norman. Mr. Norman has been operating this kind of situation since the fifties. He went by various names: Evan Goodwin, Allen Hitchcock. John Shanks, John Norman, the Odyssey Foundation, Hasting Foundation, and Epic International. The Delta Project was set up and in operation in Illinois when Mr. Norman was arrested.

Hundreds of cards for cadets


Mr. Norman corresponded with people all over the country. These people all know each other. They become privy to information that one of the main people arrested, charged, and convicted in New Orleans was in one of Mr. Norman's address book

There have also been suggestions that even in the Houston situation, there were boys brought in that were subsequently murdered.

Ms. Sneed. Well, in Dallas, for instance, they were investigating John Norman as a possible solicitor for these boys that were among the 27 boys that were found murdered in Texas.


Looks like 3 Norman lists, 35k (Dallas), 10k, and 5k


A few years ago in Houston, the police investigated the case of a man who first had sex with runaway boys, then killed them and buried the bodies. Altogether, twenty-seven bodies were recovered. The Houston police say they know nothing about such films, but a man in Los Angeles told us he had recently viewed a film showing the actual murders.

The probe led police to the discovery that Norman has a long career of sexual abuse of children. Norman, who came to the Chicago area in mid-1973 from Dallas, has a record of 13 arrests for sex offenses going back to 1954.

The Delta Project was only the latest of a series of organizations he set up to supply boy prostitutes to male customers around the country, police said.

Earlier, they said, his operation had gone by such names as the Norman Foundation, Epic International, and the Odyssey Foundation. Ironically, Dr. Judianne Densen-Gerber of New York City, heads a national movement to prevent child abuse and neglect, called Odyssey Institute. She is an outspoken foe of child 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.

Dallas police told Sgt. Ronald Kelly, head of the Area 6 youth division, that they have information associating Norman with the ring that helped transport to Texas the 27 boys murdered in Houston in 1973 in a widely publicized sex and sadism case.

The clandestine newsletter is known as Hermes. Police said the principal figures in its publication are Elden Gale [Rusty] Wake 40, an employee of Trinity College in Lake Forest ; Patrick Townson, a Chicago man who operates a citizens band radio information show for homosexuals and is connected with the Gay News and Events newspaper, and David Berta, who along with Townson was involved in Norman's operation.

But police said they could take no action against the Hermes operation in the absence of an Illinois obscenity law. The law was declared unconstitutional by a federal court last year.

The Lake County state's attorney's office has identified Wake as an employee of a children's home and two children's camps between 1964 and 1968.


Unknown to jail officials, they said, Norman used the jail's printing facilities to send out three "newsletters" about the project to homosexual clients throughout the country and to people who answered his advertisements in gay publications.

Norman told his readers that "Delta-Dorms" were being established around the country. "Each is a private residence where one of our sustaining members acts as a 'don' for two to four 'cadets'. . . . The nature of the relationship between cadet and sponsor is left entirely to the two of them."


Officials of the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services said Bell has been in and out of orphanages and foster homes since he was 6.

They said Bell was one of several hundred Chicago children sent to foster homes* in Texas between 1952 and 1973 by the department.

A scandal blew up in 1973 when it was reported that some of the children had been stripped, beaten, and kept in solitary confinement for infractions of rules in the homes.

As an indication of the close links that exist among child sex abusers, police said the address book of John Norman, now in the Illinois state prison at Pontiac, contained the name of Raymond Woodall.



GROUP HOMES

more homes in Washington State and New York State, possibly District of Columbia, Nebraska, Iowa, Vermont, California, Pennsylvania

Pornographers in at least five states — Michigan, New Jersey, Tennessee, Louisiana, and Florida — have used or have attempted to use federal, state and county funds to establish foster homes and child care camps for their operations

Richards told police all four of these organizations were fronts for homosexual activity involving boys and all were set up as tax dodges.

Police said leaders of the organizations drew up plans to obtain federal, state and county funds for child care homes they planned to establish for homosexual and pornographic purposes.

A letter to Richards from Dyer Grossman, a New York teacher and officer of the four organizations, said counties would pay up to $150 per month per boy, states would pay up to $400, and federal agencies up to $700.

NEW ORLEANS

Kids in New Orleans were often sent to Florida, the New Orleans guys started up with other plans in mind, they were also voluntary probation officers, they would find troubled kids, go to their parents, and recommend them to go to a special school, parents would say no money and they would give scholarship, there were 6 or 7 schools in Florida but they only abused at 1

New Orleans and LA had huge numbers of runaways cuz of weather

Boys Farm in Tennessee received federal funds


The discovery of similar photographs prompted police in New Orleans to bring charges against seventeen men who were molesting boys in a Boy Scout troop with the connivance of the scoutmaster. (had no idea it was 17)

Nineteen men have been charged with multiple counts of crimes against nature, which carries a maximum penalty of 15 years on each count. Among them are two Boston-area millionaires and a California millionaire alleged to have flown to New Orleans to have sex with the boys. Police investigation of the case extended into 34 states.

Among those arrested were Richard C. .Jacobs of Arlington, Mass.. millionaire president of the Jet Spray Corp. and a former part-owner of the New England Patriots football team; Robert B. Mailers, a California millionaire; and Hugh Scott Mellor of Brighton, Mass., millionaire president of a real estate holding company.


They said Halvorsen and Woodall went to New Orleans from Coral Gables, Fla., where they had worked as maintenance men for the Adelphi Academies, identified by Florida police as a former male prostitution front that was recently sold to legitimate operators.

Peter Bradford, formerly a co-owner of the Adelphi Academies, is among the 19 men charged in New Orleans.

In 1974, Halvorsen and Woodall organized Boy Scout Troop 137 with about 40 boys as members.

New Orleans District Att. Harry Connick said the Scout leaders also drew up applications for state and federal money to establish and operate homes for boys, but had not carried through with these plans.

Sgt. Tony Raimondo of the Coral Gables police said evidence shows that Halvorsen went to a number of mothers in New Orleans and recruited six boys for the Adelphi Academies.

As an indication of the close links that exist among child sex abusers, police said the address book of John Norman, now in the Illinois state prison at Pontiac, contained the name of Raymond Woodall.

A police search of Halvorsen's files turned up the name of Rev. Claudius Ira [Bud] Vermilye Jr.

Police seized a list of more than 270 "active sponsors'' of the farm. (Tennessee)


RANDOM

Only laws (Mann Act) were about girls/women, nothing about male prostitutes

Only 4 units in the country (Houston, Chicago, LA, New Orleans)


Strait had 1200 customers of his newsletter, thought 3 other guys making 🤬🤬🤬🤬, Ames, a guy named Jerry, and an unnamed man in the Northeast, the latter the only one not caught by this hearing


Person would mail Strait, then 'send him back a letter together with a form wherein he would have to swear that he was not a police officer or a member of the Communist Party and that he was over 21 years of age'

had an undercover guy help develop the film

sold for $100 a piece, had ordered 2000, thought could get rid of 10k to 20k

Always making it sound like the kids were never forced and wanted to do it

Police estimate Strait made $5 million to $7 million from his business, which is still in operation.



Richards said would send out photos of models then people who received would want to meet, mentions Sheldon (along with Grossman and Keller?) and said he had around 600 buyers

Better Life was main organization in mid 70s, The leader is a man named Barry Wright, which may be an alias. However, an associate told me twice that his real name was Wayne Smith, the same man who runs the Mail-0-Matic operations in Rocky Mount. Their address is a Beverly Hills, Calif., post office box. The magazine is printed by the Broad Street Journal in Colorado


they all had a number like I did, BL 147

maybe 12 prints would be maybe $10, Anywhere from $75 to $200 for a 200-foot reel

I had a girlie studio called Photo Arts studio. I just used girls there from college. But the funny thing about it is that you can make more money with young male models.

I believe that 90 percent of the business is handled by the U.S. mail

Richards said Strait's newsletter and pics still getting mailed out after he was imprisoned, now called F & F Distributors

They belonged to Big Brothers and the Boy Scouts, which, of course, is a No. 1 area for a Boy Lover to be working in that field.

Richards was molested by a baby sitter




From what other areas of the world are they coming ?

Ms. Sneed. Belgium. Countries like Belgium were listed. Other places in Europe were listed. I believe the Philippines was listed. We know that some of these people who were arrested in New Orleans for having participated in a Boy Scout operation were wanted throughout the world on buggering charges.


They are also advertisements for traveling sex shows that might be coded like a magic act» that is, ''My assistant and I would like to come visit with you."


"We knew the authorities had no idea how widespread we were and how vast we were. We just wanted to make sure that these people were sincere and had money."


right now in California where young children are transported from Mexico into the confines of a car. I am not talking about the trunk of a car — these cars are specially constructed to put children inside the body of the car. They are driven across the border, driven to Los Angeles and the method is to drop them off in a garage. Then the boys are extracted from the car. ($750-$1500)

Lieutenant Martin estimates that in Los Angeles alone about 30,000 children that they know of are involved in prostitution and 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.

I might point out that there is a journal known as Where the Young Boys Are — Where the Young Ones Are — published in California. The journal sold for $5 a copy. They sold 70,000 copies. This journal does nothing but specifically point out where you can find young children in every State of the Union



Neighborhood children that were recruited as prospective models might be taken to a camp by this very nice neighbor who the family trusted and thought was a very nice individual. Then a tradeoff would take place in which another person would have been contacted before the trip. He would be there at the camp and then the child would be out of sight for a while. This man would in effect test him out. If the boy complained to his parents that in fact something had happened, the nice neighbor would say, "Gee. that's just terrible. I didn't know what happened.

1 lost sight of him for a while. I think it's horrible."

Movies definitely being made in LA


Robin Lloyd, author of "For Money or Love : Boy Prostitution in America," found 264 different magazines depicting sexual acts between children, or between children and adults, being sold in adult bookstores throughout the country.

Although the various 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 and child prostitution operations extend across the nation, police say there is no single organization running them. But the adults involved maintain contact through newsletters and exchanges of children.

"It seems to be like spider webs strung out all over the nation,"


most child material now on the market is produced in the United States, shipped to Scandinavia, and then shipped back to America to give the impression it was made in Europe

In California, the maximum sentence for child abuse is only two years, and in 40 arrest cases in Los Angeles since September authorities have obtained just one conviction.


With the help of his partner, he incorporated as a tax exempt-front known as Brother Paul's Children's Mission.





Senator Culver. Who is Francis Sheldon?

Mr. Richards. He was a friend of mine. He paid for my office


Children in Michigan have been sexually abused at a summer camp on an island owned by a millionaire pedophile who is now in flight from Federal prosecution.


Shelden's name also appears among "sponsors" of the Boys Farm in Tennessee.

another homosexual network involving the Church of the New Revelation of Kearny, N.J., the Ocean Living Institute of New Jersey, Brother Paul's Children's Mission on North Fox Island, Mich., and the Educational Foundation for Youth of Illinois.
Francis Shelden is rumored to have financed Hermes. The media erroneously reports that John Norman printed Hermes while in jail. It was circulating before his jail sentence. It seems to have been started up by possible associates of his. He might have advertised his Delta Project on it. It's crazy how organized these schemes were. Richards actually named several people in his senate hearing that never got any sort of justice at the time. Donald Keller, a "photography swapper" from Edmonds, WA. He never faced any jailtime and died in 1993. His obituary had memorials suggested to Hogar Infantil, a legitimate mexican children's organization for at-risk youth. There are prior abuse cases. Donald G Keller (1921-1993) - Find a Grave.... Also named was Donald Sandberg, registered sex offender, and Jerome Rogg, who seems to be some gay male model. I do believe that John Norman and Phil Paske were somewhat involved with John Wayne Gacy.
 

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