IL IL - Lane Bryant Murders, Tinley Park, 2 Feb 2008

[Userid]

Does anyone know where the music at the beginning of the call came from? Does Lane Bryant typically play music in their stores?

Yes, the first clip was the beginning of the call and only lasts approximately 10 seconds. You can hear it in this video:

The second clip TPPD released is the entire "call," after (presumably) the cell phone was hung up, but the blue tooth was still recording. This one is 37 seconds long, approximately 27 seconds longer than the one above:
https://cms6.revize.com/revize/tinleypark/document_center/Police Department/Lane Bryant Homicide Investigation/LaneBryant.WAV

I'm trying to pinpoint how much of the killer you can hear before the call was hung up on the cell phone. I feel like the first phrase he uttered after he hung up RF's cell phone was either "Cover up that head" or "Had to play the hero, huh," but I'm not sure. Here is a transcript of what I can hear from the TP full version, per second, compared to the AP version in the first video I posted. The red text indicates when I think both versions of the call occurred simultaneously, with the black text indicating everything that was said after the cell phone had been hung up by the killer (i.e. the bluetooth-recorded only segment):

0-3: 911 Emergency
3-5: Pause
5: Lane Bryant
6: "Yo!"
7-8: Pause ('Where at' possibly edited out)
9: "Man"
9-10: Pause
10-11: (killer speaks, but indecipherable, too brief to make out)
11-12: Pause
12-13: "Cover up that head"
13-14: Pause (dial tone of call ending and/or 'I won't hang up' possibly edited out)
14-16: "Had to play the hero, huh?"
16-17: Pause
17-18: "Hit me with dat" or "Com'ere with dat"
18-19: Pause
20: "Bull s*it"
21-22: Pause
22-23: "Shut up, then"
23-24: Pause
24-25: "I'm losing it"
26-27: Pause
27-28: "This is bull s*it"
28-29: Pause
30-31: (killer speaks, but indecipherable, my best guess is "Inna' stow" or "in the store")
31-32: Pause
32-33: "Hadda be a hero" (second time he brings this up)
33-34: Pause
35: "What?"

Transcript of AP call from first video (begins at 27 second mark in video):

27-29: 911 Emergency
29-30: Lane Bryant
30: "Yo!"
31: Where at?
32-33: Tinley Park. Hurry.
33-36: Stay on the line. Stay on the line. Let me get you to Tinley Park. Don't hang up. (this segment may be part of the two edited pauses from the 9-12 second mark above. that is why it's hard to make out what the killer says at the 10-11 second mark, because his phrase comes in the middle of the operator's continuously long phrase)
36-37: I won't hang up.

Sadly, I think the killer says "Had to be the hero" just before he shot the store manager (at the 14-16 second mark); and he says it again after he had shot her (32-33 mark). He says it directly to her, then he says it again (to himself, essentially) after he murders her. It's hard to know what the black text pauses are in the prolonged version of the call, but I think that at least one of those pauses was that particular gunshot -- and that occurred in one of the first three black-text pauses in my opinion. So if the shooting began during this recorded segment, I think at least one victim (the manager) was murdered during this time.

The "what?" in that call sounds so utterly evil and ominous. I feel like the killer shot the remaining victims immediately after saying that.

 

[dotr]

The comments the perp makes to the victims sound like the kind one would use on teens or kids, imo, speculation.

 

[flgrl017]

I’ve listened to both so many times. I honestly hear different things at different times. Really the only things I am sure about is when she first calls he’s in another part of the store talking, he hasn’t caught her yet when she says “I won’t hang up,”and the clearest words to me are “I’m losing it” so that leads me to believe he’s closet to her Bluetooth then.

I personally think he killed her after he said “I’m losing it” and is shooting the others during the pauses. The call was probably still connected when the police arrived.

 

[Userid]

I’ve listened to both so many times. I honestly hear different things at different times. Really the only things I am sure about is when she first calls he’s in another part of the store talking, he hasn’t caught her yet when she says “I won’t hang up,”and the clearest words to me are “I’m losing it” so that leads me to believe he’s closet to her Bluetooth then.

I personally think he killed her after he said “I’m losing it” and is shooting the others during the pauses. The call was probably still connected when the police arrived.

That's possible -- she could have ended the call (on the cell-phone) herself, since she knew she had the bluetooth. But then, how did the killer ever know she called police if he didn't see her with the cell phone? And why wouldn't she hang up the cell phone earlier than she did?

I know there are reports of sirens being heard by Martha before any firing began, but I can't fathom how that would be possible for him to exit the front of the store if the cop was (essentially) already there -- if he exited through the back of the store, I could see -- but not the front, just my opinion.

I feel like perhaps the police were looking for the cell phone in the ponds in the area. They could have been looking for anything of course, but it would make sense for the killer to want to dispose of that item in particular. Maybe the killer snatched the phone from her when (if) he ended the call, then realized he needed to get rid of it while he was driving away.

 

[flgrl017]

That's possible -- she could have ended the call (on the cell-phone) herself, since she knew she had the bluetooth. But then, how did the killer ever know she called police if he didn't see her with the cell phone? And why wouldn't she hang up the cell phone earlier than she did?

I know there are reports of sirens being heard by Martha before any firing began, but I can't fathom how that would be possible for him to exit the front of the store if the cop was (essentially) already there -- if he exited through the back of the store, I could see -- but not the front, just my opinion.

I feel like perhaps the police were looking for the cell phone in the ponds in the area. They could have been looking for anything of course, but it would make sense for the killer to want to dispose of that item in particular. Maybe the killer snatched the phone from her when (if) he ended the call, then realized he needed to get rid of it while he was driving away.

I honestly think they just added that beeping before they released it at first. They also said the phone went dead which we know is a lie.
I think the cop was on Harlem when Martha heard it. The second cop that arrives (dash cam cop) was probably dispatched first. I’m not sure if Target cop was immediately dispatched since he was already on a call.

 

[jbirner]

I have listened to the call probably over 100 times now and I come up with pretty much the same words all the time. Yo...do not....cover your head...you're such a hero huh....you're gonna die...you're lucky...I'm losing it....foolishness...be a hero....right

That is just my interpretation having listened to it many times. I think he shoots RM first in the forehead and then shoots the rest. I would not rule out the possibility that he had already killed one before the phone call was made.

 

[Userid]

I have listened to the call probably over 100 times now and I come up with pretty much the same words all the time. Yo...do not....cover your head...you're such a hero huh....you're gonna die...you're lucky...I'm losing it....foolishness...be a hero....right

That is just my interpretation having listened to it many times. I think he shoots RM first in the forehead and then shoots the rest. I would not rule out the possibility that he had already killed one before the phone call was made.

Yeah, I've listened to it dozens of times now. Seems like the majority hear what you hear. Personally, I don't hear "you're lucky" at all -- I've tried to specifically hear it too, but I just can't. I think I can hear what many think is the "foolishness" part, but I hear him saying "bull sh*t" again -- he's stretching out the syllables...."buuuullll s***"

If he had killed one of the victims before the phone call, wouldn't Martha have been able to provide that info to police? Maybe she did and I just didn't hear about it.

I feel like he had to have caught RF in the act of the making the call, before Martha ever heard the sirens -- that's why she was shot in the forehead. The fact she was the only one shot this way, to me, indicates she was shot before the others; and shot early in the phone call.

Also, the more I listen to it, the more I hear "You!" as opposed to "Yo!" If it is "You," he could be talking to any one of the victims.

 

[flgrl017]

I assume they got the info from Martha. If the phone call was never disconnected they could tell if he shot someone before the call. They could cross reference the sounds from the call versus bullets found on the scene to verify Martha’s story.

The main reason I think he hadn’t discovered RM on the phone when she says “I won’t hang up” is because she was able to stay focused while talking to the 911 operator. It probably took him a few seconds to even realize she was on the phone when he noticed her out of her bondage.

I wonder if it’s the sirens that made him go check on the hostages.

 

[jbirner]

I think there are many things Martha told them that we do not know about. We've heard several versions from various media outlets and podcasts. I think if we ever hear the whole complete story we would be shocked and bewildered at the same time.

I have heard many people interpret the call and what he said and this is on e of those scenarios where if you asked 100 people you would get 100 different interpretations of what he said and that is ok.

 

[Userid]

I assume they got the info from Martha. If the phone call was never disconnected they could tell if he shot someone before the call. They could cross reference the sounds from the call versus bullets found on the scene to verify Martha’s story.

The main reason I think he hadn’t discovered RM on the phone when she says “I won’t hang up” is because she was able to stay focused while talking to the 911 operator. It probably took him a few seconds to even realize she was on the phone when he noticed her out of her bondage.

I wonder if it’s the sirens that made him go check on the hostages.

It's also possible that she didn't realize he had seen her until after the fact, as she was no doubt avoiding eye contact with him, especially while making the call.

Did the Target cop put his sirens on? I would assume he did. If the killer did hear sirens, how do we know which sirens (the Target cop or the Harlem cop) he heard first?

I feel like RF called police after he had fondled one of the victims and after that fight that had occurred; after the killer had struck the other victim with the butt of his gun. That's when this became more than a simple robbery for RF, as she knew the killer was capable of physical and sexual violence.

 

[flgrl017]

It's also possible that she didn't realize he had seen her until after the fact, as she was no doubt avoiding eye contact with him, especially while making the call.

Did the Target cop put his sirens on? I would assume he did. If the killer did hear sirens, how do we know which sirens (the Target cop or the Harlem cop) he heard first?

I feel like RF called police after he had fondled one of the victims and after that fight that had occurred; after the killer had struck the other victim with the butt of his gun. That's when this became more than a simple robbery for RF, as she knew the killer was capable of physical and sexual violence.

I can see it taking her a few moments to notice that she was caught.

10 Years Later: The Lane Bryant Murders Still Haunt Tinley Park
Idk, in this video it doesn’t seem like target cop’s lights are on. I’m assuming that the dash cam cop was dispatched first since target cop was already on a call. We know that the killer was able to shoot everyone and get away unseen by target cop. All target cop had to do was jump in his car and dart across the lot. Since they were in the back room of the store, I think that a siren could easily be heard if the police car was heading south on Harlem or coming off I 80 (not sure if TP patrols the interstate though). Given all that I think she heard dash cam cop heading south on Harlem. That’s just my thoughts.

I think she took the first opportunity she had to work herself free of the duct tape. I think the suv had him distracted. It would have taken her awhile to get herself free before calling. I agree that since his violence was escalating that made her more determined to get free and call and stop complying with his demands.

 

[jbirner]

I agree she would not have called 911 if this were a simple robbery. She truly feared for her life and the lives of the other women and she felt she had a better chance calling 911 and getting caught than just to wait it out. I wonder if she overheard him say something to a possible accomplice that forced her to make the call.

 

[Userid]

I agree she would not have called 911 if this were a simple robbery. She truly feared for her life and the lives of the other women and she felt she had a better chance calling 911 and getting caught than just to wait it out. I wonder if she overheard him say something to a possible accomplice that forced her to make the call.

This is possible. Although I have to wonder: if there was an accomplice, why wouldn't police ask for help in identifying him/her? They had no problem asking for help in identifying the killer. Even if they didn't have anything (description, etc.) of the accomplice to provide to the public, I feel like they would still at least mention the fact that there were two (or however many) people involved. They would especially do this in the hope that the accomplice would flip -- meaning, at a press conference, etc., they would suggest that they have information on this accomplice (even though they didn't), and that they were withholding that from the public for the time being -- with the hope that the accomplice would come forward to save his/her own skin.

If there was an accomplice, I don't think he/she ever went into the store. And if police had known that there was an accomplice, I think they would have released that information. But anything is possible.

 

[jbirner]

I don't think anyone ever got a look at the accomplices. It was the cars caught on the Target cam leaving the scene at 10:45 that makes me, and many other people, believe there were accomplices. The occupants of those vehicles have never been identified so we don't really know if they were involved or just bystanders. My guess is that at least one of those cars were involved and most likely a getaway car.

 

[flgrl017]

There are a few reasons I think there was an accomplice, but the main reason is the timeline. We have a suv pull up and park right in front of the store between 10:38 and 10:39 and leave between 10:45-10:46. The 911 call comes in at 10:44 and we know the perp is there 35 seconds into the call. Dash cam cop arrives at 10:46.16 and Target cop is sitting there. We have statements by the TP police dept that they missed him by 60 seconds maybe less. As of March 14, 2008 (date of newscast) the police hadn’t identified the driver of that suv so no one had come forward willingly several weeks after the crime. He was also very brazen and able to get away in the blink of an eye. I’ve noticed the trend in the area is to operate in groups and that helps them to be more efficient.
Martha was blindfolded and tied up in the back room so she only saw so much. I’m guessing he bound and blindfolded them pretty quickly after the phone call to the Orland store. My guess is they were keeping it close to the vest as they say so that’s why they never came right out and said they suspect he had accomplice(s). Cops do that sometimes.

 

[Userid]

Just throwing this out there because I have yet to see it hypothesized thus far: Is it possible that the killer could have tied up all the victims, then exited the store and moved his car there himself? I ask because, we know that RF was able to get free during a period of time when the killer exited the room and went to the front of the store. Perhaps when he exited the room, he exited more than just the room, but the entire store?

It's obvious that his initial plan -- whatever it was, exactly -- had failed, and he was improvising on the fly at this point. Perhaps he had parked in another more inconspicuous spot in front of the store, but after tying the victims and with his initial plan in tatters, perhaps he ran out to move his car as close to the entrance of the store as possible -- maybe because he was planning on abducting one of the victims at this point. It would take at least a couple minutes, which would explain how RF was able to get free during this time.

I know there was a lady who walked up to the door and was about to enter, but for whatever reason, decided not to at the last second -- I wonder where she parked.

 

[dotr]

Includes video with the brother of one of the victims, he thinks the perp must be eaten up with guilt.
How could the perp ever look at any female ever again, without thinking of all those innocent women tied up and shot dead in cold blood. The shame, such cowardice! imo.
February 4, 2020
Search for Leads Continues 12 Years After Lane Bryant Shooting

“ Just last year we got 58 tips, which is astonishing knowing that the case is 12 years old it is very active in the public’s mind,” Tinley Park Detective Raymond Violetto said.''

''A $100,000 reward has been offered for information in the case, and is not contingent upon a conviction.

Violetto says that the killing still haunts him, but he remains confident that a suspect will eventually be captured.
“I don’t know if it will happen by the time I retire, but I’m confident it will happen in my lifetime,” he said.''

''Despite those setbacks, Hamilton and other family members of the victims of the heinous attack believe that one day they will get the justice and the closure that they have sought for more than a decade.

“I know it will be solved. Anything is possible through God,” he said.''

 

[flgrl017]

Just throwing this out there because I have yet to see it hypothesized thus far: Is it possible that the killer could have tied up all the victims, then exited the store and moved his car there himself? I ask because, we know that RF was able to get free during a period of time when the killer exited the room and went to the front of the store. Perhaps when he exited the room, he exited more than just the room, but the entire store?

It's obvious that his initial plan -- whatever it was, exactly -- had failed, and he was improvising on the fly at this point. Perhaps he had parked in another more inconspicuous spot in front of the store, but after tying the victims and with his initial plan in tatters, perhaps he ran out to move his car as close to the entrance of the store as possible -- maybe because he was planning on abducting one of the victims at this point. It would take at least a couple minutes, which would explain how RF was able to get free during this time.

I know there was a lady who walked up to the door and was about to enter, but for whatever reason, decided not to at the last second -- I wonder where she parked.

That possibility has been brought up before so I’ve considered it. I think it’s possible but not probable. That would add to his risk to leave the store, go into the parking lot, move a car, and then reenter. All that with 6 people taped up by the back door plus someone could have came into the store while he was gone.

The police would know where she parked and they asked about those two cars specifically. If she hadn’t came forward by March 18 then one of those two vehicles could have been her. We don’t know when she came forward though (as far as I know). The first mention of her is July 18, 2008 that I can find. The way the article is worded makes it seem like police have known about her for awhile.

 

[flgrl017]

Also if he did go into the lot and move the suv, he’s back between 10:38 and 10:39 because that’s when the suv first shows up in the Target photo.

 

[dotr]

Looking around to see if the FBI have a profile of the type of perp who would do this.
Looking at this photo, it seems like somebody could see what was going on in the store, if so- wondering if there are apartment buildings close enough for someone (the perp) to watch the store, perhaps with binoculars?

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