IL - Lt. Charles 'Joe' Gliniewicz, 52, found dead, Fox Lake, 1 Sep 2015 - #4

[vestigare]

http://education.nationalgeographic.com/encyclopedia/wetland/

Gotta love google!
Everything people might want to know about "wetlands", their types and names depending on where or why they exist and other stuff.

Yeah I kept thinking this ain't no Florida swamp here folks.

 

[vestigare]

How about staged suicide gone wrong?
Does that sum the concept up?

Hm...I would say stupid accident gone deadly wrong. LOL

I don't think any of our terms apply to MOD certs though.

ETA:In Chuz's scenario he wasn't staging a suicide. He was just shooting himself to injure himself.

 

[vestigare]

Thanks, VERY good find!
At least based on this elevation and swamp area map of the location we can at least make some guesses as to the drier and swampier areas that day given the weather conditions had been dry for a while.

The most swamp like area I see is directly east of the cement plant where it appears there is a pond or standing water. And then south of the bend in Honing road.
So it would be interesting to see where Joe made the call that he saw them and that they were running to the swamp and where they might have come from prior to being seen.

And why would they run towards the swamp if near the plant rather than just behind the plant and over the road?

 

[vestigare]

Question for Task Force.
-If part of Joe's responsibility was this area that was now owned by the village why didn't he have keys to the gate down Honing Road?

 

[looking4OPH]

(although I understand why they might not want to traipsing through there with everyone in LE still on high alert).

That.

 

[looking4OPH]

http://www.illinoisfloodmaps.org/dfirm.aspx?county=lake

Enter Honing Road in the search and then make sure your basemap is Imagery.
Then zoom in and you will get a nice sat image of the swampy area where you can see the ponds and such and the trails.

You can get a similar view from Google Maps with the Earth setting (and zoom in a bit more with less effort than the floodplain site). Included a screencap below.

The dark greens are trees and bushes. The light greens (to the southwest of the incident) are standing water with the surface covered in duckweed. The brown is mostly being referred to as 'swamp'. It is mostly cattails and other scrub plants. They can grow to probably 8 feet tall.

The default Google Map satellite view is from 2015, so is pretty recent/accurate. Looks to be mid-summer as the trees are all very green, without any browning that would come in the fall and into winter in this area. The swampy areas are usually not standing water, as you would find towards the east, near the fitness center or across Rt. 59 closer to Duck Lake. The brown area would move between wet and dry throughout the spring/summer/fall, depending on rainfall. The water height in the lakes in the Chain proper are frequently affected by rainfall, as well as the abundance of swampy area in-between them.

While I don't have a data source off hand, this has been a fairly dry summer in the area and I don't recall much rain leading up to the time of this incident (late summer). Again without scientific backup, I would say that the swampy area being discussed would have been between a little wet to dry, without much standing water. There may have been some wet mud into the middle of the brown areas. At this time in the season, the cattails/scrub would have been about as thick as they would get during the year, before dying off in winter.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

http://www.wunderground.com/history...reqdb.zip=60020&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999

http://www.wunderground.com/history...reqdb.zip=60020&reqdb.magic=1&reqdb.wmo=99999

The weather was discussed earlier - a review.

The latter part of August rather cool with temps remaining in the low 70's.
On August 29th, temps. reached a high of only 67 degrees while
0.83" of rain was recorded. There was a full moon.
The 30th - a high of 71 with fog noted.
The 31st - a high of 78 with fog noted again.

Interestingly (because August is usually the warmest month),
on September 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, temps went up with highs
of 88, 89, and 88, respectively.
On the 3rd, a thunderstorm is noted, but no sum of precipitation is listed.

Since it rained heavily, for the first time in awhile, on August 29th and it remained on the cooler side with fog noted until September 1st, is it probable the swampy areas got and remained swampy until the 1st?

During August, rainfall totaled 3.92 inches, most of it fell midway or earlier in the month with temps remaining on the cooler side.

Remember the conversation about the dogs and their handlers?
The temps had been rather moderate for some time and then, figure the odds, rose substantially when the searches got underway.

 

[looking4OPH]

Yeah I kept thinking this ain't no Florida swamp here folks.

Using the Nat Geo site's definitions, this area is "wetland", not "swamp" or "marsh" and also not technically "bog" (as I'm pretty familiar with Volo Bog a couple of miles to the south on Rt. 12). There are similarities to the plant makeup in a bog, but I'm pretty sure this would not be classified one.

 

[vestigare]

You can get a similar view from Google Maps with the Earth setting (and zoom in a bit more with less effort than the floodplain site). Included a screencap below.

The dark greens are trees and bushes. The light greens (to the southeast of the incident) are standing water with the surface covered in duckweed. The brown is mostly being referred to as 'swamp'. It is mostly cattails and other scrub plants. They can grow to probably 8 feet tall.

The default Google Map satellite view is from 2015, so is pretty recent/accurate. Looks to be mid-summer as the trees are all very green, without any browning that would come in the fall and into winter in this area. The swampy areas are usually not standing water, as you would find towards the east, near the fitness center or across Rt. 59 closer to Duck Lake. The brown area would move between wet and dry throughout the spring/summer/fall, depending on rainfall. The water height in the lakes in the Chain proper are frequently affected by rainfall, as well as the abundance of swampy area in-between them.

While I don't have a data source off hand, this has been a fairly dry summer in the area and I don't recall much rain leading up to the time of this incident (late summer). Again without scientific backup, I would say that the swampy area being discussed would have been between a little wet to dry, without much standing water. There may have been some wet mud into the middle of the brown areas. At this time in the season, the cattails/scrub would have been about as thick as they would get during the year, before dying off in winter.

Thanks
So, if Joe were on honing road and saw some plople somewhere from that road and they were running what he called a swamp could that be anywhere south and east of honing or would he have said the swamp only if he were already standing in the trees? Because it looks to me like the trees are along the road before you ever get to swamp.

On the flood plain map it is winter because you see no foliage so it is a bit more difficult to understand where the trees are exactly.

And was he found in the trees our in the more swamp land?

 

[looking4OPH]

On the 3rd, a thunderstorm is noted, but no sum of precipitation is listed.

I remember this storm as it was brief, but intense. A good bit of rain fell, but was spotty and localized. I remember hearing about LE of some sort going back to the scene soon before this and thinking that they knew they had one last shot at examination/evidence before mother nature reclaimed some of it.

 

[looking4OPH]

Thanks
So, if Joe were on honing road and saw some plople somewhere from that road and they were running what he called a swamp could that be anywhere south and east of honing or would he have said the swamp only if he were already standing in the trees?

And was he found in the trees our in the more swamp land?

Those are really good questions that I would love to know the answers to.

Trying to put myself in his shoes, I would think he would have been referring to suspects running away from him on Honing/in the trees in any of the east/southeast/south directions, knowing that it is mostly wetlands in those directions beyond the trees. He wouldn't necessarily have seen them running to/into wetlands, but was familiar with the area knowing what was in those directions that they would encounter.

 

[Chuz Life]

For a guy who's a firearms instructor and Sniper? That's what I call having a really bad day.

Unless the toxicology results show he was hammered, I don't see him making that mistake.

Would like like to see some videos of firearms instructors who should have known better - having serious gun related accidents caught on tape?

 

[al66pine]

Sometime back a poster asked - if one of the three men at the site shot Lt G, why don't the other two come forward to LE, admit their involvement/presence, get immunity, testify for the state, and collect & split the $100,000 reward?


IIRC someone responded along this line: Unless & until other evidence (whether DNA, fingerprints, etc or witness' testimony) points to the identity of these two and their involvement in those events, they both may think ~ 'no reason to come forward, we've gotten away w it so why turn selves in' (what-ev their involvement was). Agreeing w that.

Adding another thought: If one or both are arrested for other crimes, immunity for those crimes may imo be sufficient incentive for one or both to admit to involvement/presence at Lt G shooting. Imo, still not likely for reward to be given to either.

BTW, what are reward terms? Do they allow reward to be given to a person involved in that crime, even if given immunity?

IDK, I could be all wrong

 

[vestigare]

Would like like to see some videos of firearms instructors who should have known better - having serious gun related accidents caught on tape?

I do think there is an awful lot of misplaced emphases on him being ex military and a supposed sniper and this or that trained expert. We don't know what his skill levels are in any of those areas and as you said even highly skilled intelligent people do some really foolish things so it doesn't matter much if he was this or that.

 

[Chuz Life]

The first shot was good enough to say I was shot at and hit in the vest. So the 2nd shot would have served no purpose unless he wanted to slightly wound himself so he can get more time off or have more glory or whatever.

Which in that case. A quick graze to the arm or leg would have sufficed. Jmo

I agree the 2nd shot would not have been necessary but that doesn't mean he might not have decided to go for it. We don't really know what was going on in his head that morning. I simply proposed a possible scenario that fits both the evidence and the lack of anything that shows his reported three suspects were actually there.

So the 2nd shot to the vest would serve no purpose since he was already hit in the vest. He still could have claim the same temporary benefits or time off or media glory with only the 1 shot to the vest. So if that was his plan. Then the 2nd shot wasn't needed.

See above. I agree that the 2nd shot was not 'needed.'

However, that is not proof against the possibility that he might have taken it anyway.

Btw. LT would have known that they would match the bullets to his gun. So he would have shot at himself with a different gun. So this definitely debunks that as being his original intention. Jmo

I disagree.

Especially if the Lt had survived.

In the scenario I detailed earlier - had the Lt survived, it wouldn't matter if his gun was tested because his story would have been something like; "they jumped me and took my gun and turned it on me. I took two shots to my vest and I was in a fight for my life! When I finally wrestled my weapon back out of the shooters hands, he (they) took off in that direction. . ."

Of course the bullets would match his gun but it wouldn't matter if that was his intended story line.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

As to the article above - scary.

Yesterday, my brother called me from the big city.
He was venting about a letter/notice he received in the mail.
It warned that on blankety-blank street, a four lane highway type within the city (has a school along one small section), will be issuing tickets in the amounts of 35 to 65 dollars depending on the speeding info the new surveillance system now in place provides.

Talk about Big Brother!

Also, the school is on but set back from the broad highway.
Are people speeding despite obvious signage indicating a school?
I asked my brother to look for clear warnings and get back to me because I'd hate to believe this is meant as a trap aimed at unsuspecting drivers. In other words, not primarily to keep the children safe. Whatever happened to crossing guards?

Maybe, since my bro pays city taxes, he was forewarned out of courtesy - nah!

 

[looking4OPH]

Yesterday, my brother called me from the big city.
It warned that on blankety-blank street, a four lane highway type within the city (has a school along one small section), will be issuing tickets in the amounts of 35 to 65 dollars depending on the speeding info the new surveillance system now in place provides.

Talk about Big Brother!

Are people speeding despite obvious signage indicating a school?

Assuming "the big city" is Chicago, welcome to the Chicagoland area (city and suburbs). The number of redlight and speed cams has increased so much in the past 5 years. Revenue, revenue, revenue.

 

[Chuz Life]

Hm...I would say stupid accident gone deadly wrong. LOL

I don't think any of our terms apply to MOD certs though.

ETA:In Chuz's scenario he wasn't staging a suicide. He was just shooting himself to injure himself.

Not even that.

In my scenario he was only staging an encounter with a shooting. No injuries were necessarily wanted or warranted .

In my scenario, he was just shooting his vest to make it look like he was shot at.

 

[vestigare]

Assuming "the big city" is Chicago, welcome to the Chicagoland area (city and suburbs). The number of redlight and speed cams has increased so much in the past 5 years. Revenue, revenue, revenue.

A recent study found that towns increase their number of tickets issued by 0.5% for every 1% decline in revenue.

It is an epidemic.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Putting aside tangential rants on several emotional hot topics, most of what is posted about the area is pretty bluntly spot on. While a lot of bad is pointed out, there is good too that is not.

No doubt, but some of what is said in that post may be a reason why the elected coroner seems to be resented by some.
He is one person versus a bunch of cops and afaik there is no reason to question his ethics.
Maybe he's too thorough on the job whether it works for or against the police. His presence makes it harder to sweep things under the rug if it would be easier for the department to do so.

The above is only a what if but could be a possibility.

Adding ~ was the Precision Chrome Heliport ever a topic?
How often and who uses it?