IL - Man gets life in prison for trying to sell 50 gm of cocaine

[southcitymom]

I agree with you Brefie. I also think it is too harsh of a sentence. I do not support our 3 strikes law as written here in CA. I have voted against it consistently.
The only thing I am trying to explain is the rationale behind the sentence. It is about trying to throw the book at serial, felony criminals. We are always upset when a serial rapist is released and able to commit his crime over and over. here in CA, he would get life on his third felony whether it was for rape or stealing a loaf of bread. Sort of a zero tolerance. Some applications of the law sound pretty good and some do not.
That is what this drug law is about. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with it, I am only trying to explain it.
Now whether the crimes rise to the level of each of our personal notions of felony or criminal is a separate issue entirely.

I hate the 3 strikes law too. I think everyone who drafted it and played a part in getting it passed should receive a life sentence!

 

[mysteriew]

I think it is important to remember that this dealer did not receive his extended sentence for just 50 gms of coke, he did receive the extended sentence for repeated drug violations. It is also important to remember that most users, abusers, and even dealers do get light sentences for 1st time offenses. He may have spent little or even no time in county jail for that, may have gotten only a fine. 2nd time he probably got a stiffer sentence. So having been caught twice, sentenced twice, and serving his time twice, and knowing what a future conviction would do- he still went back to dealing. So no I don't feel real sorry for him.

Will taking one person off the street stop the drug trade? No. Is this the answer to stopping the drug trade? No. What will stop? I don't know. Maybe more preventative efforts. Maybe putting more effort in to first time offenders. More rehab, vocational efforts, counseling, better rehab programs and etc. Stronger 2nd offense penalties. More of an effort to keep them from the 3rd strike. But the fact is, there will always be those who will go for the third strike no matter what you do. Some people always seem driven to take it as far as they can go.

Comparing DUI's to drug dealers is like comparing apples and oranges in some ways. But in some ways it is the same. Repeat offenders often get off or get light sentences many times. They lose their license, they drive anyway. They continue to drive drunk. They just try to hide better. Just like 3rd strikers, they take it to the limits- until they kill someone or they get sent to prison (then they are back at it when they get out.) But it is important to understand- they are also addicts- just like the drug addicts. So maybe they need to do the same as with drug addicts.

Courts don't often order rehab- that is often considered a personal choice (besides if the court orders it they have to pay for all or some of it), and most rehabs are overbooked. Depending on the area, getting into a rehab can take a year or more. Some areas it isn't even available except as an outpatient.

LOL, Please don't get me started on child abusers and murderers.

 

[JBean]

I hate the 3 strikes law too. I think everyone who drafted it and played a part in getting it passed should receive a life sentence!

That would be the majority of Californians. It is quite popular.
I do think there is a version of it that would make sense. For example with the consistent violent offender or certain strike felony criminals. But therein lies the rub. As you can see in this thread, we do not all agree as to who is and who isn't a serious criminal.
IMO, as written it is too broad. I have supported movements to rewrite it.

 

[JBean]

I think it is important to remember that this dealer did not receive his extended sentence for just 50 gms of coke, he did receive the extended sentence for repeated drug violations. It is also important to remember that most users, abusers, and even dealers do get light sentences for 1st time offenses. He may have spent little or even no time in county jail for that, may have gotten only a fine. 2nd time he probably got a stiffer sentence. So having been caught twice, sentenced twice, and serving his time twice, and knowing what a future conviction would do- he still went back to dealing. So no I don't feel real sorry for him.

Will taking one person off the street stop the drug trade? No. Is this the answer to stopping the drug trade? No. What will stop? I don't know. Maybe more preventative efforts. Maybe putting more effort in to first time offenders. More rehab, vocational efforts, counseling, better rehab programs and etc. Stronger 2nd offense penalties. More of an effort to keep them from the 3rd strike. But the fact is, there will always be those who will go for the third strike no matter what you do. Some people always seem driven to take it as far as they can go.

Comparing DUI's to drug dealers is like comparing apples and oranges in some ways. But in some ways it is the same. Repeat offenders often get off or get light sentences many times. They lose their license, they drive anyway. They continue to drive drunk. They just try to hide better. Just like 3rd strikers, they take it to the limits- until they kill someone or they get sent to prison (then they are back at it when they get out.) But it is important to understand- they are also addicts- just like the drug addicts. So maybe they need to do the same as with drug addicts.

Courts don't often order rehab- that is often considered a personal choice (besides if the court orders it they have to pay for all or some of it), and most rehabs are overbooked. Depending on the area, getting into a rehab can take a year or more. Some areas it isn't even available except as an outpatient.

LOL, Please don't get me started on child abusers and murderers.

I agree with most of your post in general and have been trying to say something similar regarding the rationale behind this sentence.
The only thing I want to comment on is that our courts do order rehab for dealers and users alike.At least in CA they do.
the convicted criminal must pay for it themselves. If they cannot, off to jail they will go. These rehabs are not inpatient hospital like facilities, but rather residential treatment programs with very strict curfews, rules,meetings, drug testing, therapy,work requirements, etc.
So the rehab is not necessarily on the taxpayers dime.

 

[southcitymom]

That would be the majority of Californians. It is quite popular.
I do think there is a version of it that would make sense. For example with the consistent violent offender or certain strike felony criminals. But therein lies the rub. As you can see in this thread, we do not all agree as to who is and who isn't a serious criminal.
IMO, as written it is too broad. I have supported movements to rewrite it.

Hmmm...what would the world think if I put the majority of Californians in jail for life??!!

Yes - I'm with you and should have been more specific. It's poorly written and there is a version that could make sense and do good and remove some dangerous creatures from polite society. But - as you point out - that's NOT what's happening with this law as is.

 

[JBean]

Hmmm...what would the world think if I put the majority of Californians in jail for life??!!

Yes - I'm with you and should have been more specific. It's poorly written and there is a version that could make sense and do good and remove some dangerous creatures from polite society. But - as you point out - that's NOT what's happening with this law as is.

I voted for this, but people looked at me like I had 3 heads. There was a public image of prop 66 releasing thousands of serious felons. but if anyone had read it and really done the homework, they would have seen that was not the case.
C'est la vie.
Needless to say it failed:

http://www.calvoter.org/voter/elections/2004/props/prop66.html


Proposition 66: Limitations on "Three Strikes" Law. Sex Crimes. Punishment. Initiative Statute. Failed

Official Summary

Amends "Three Strikes" law to require increased sentences only when current conviction is for specified violent and/or serious felony. Redefines violent and serious felonies. Only prior convictions for specified violent and/or serious felonies, brought and tried separately, would qualify for second and third "strike" sentence increases. Allows conditional re-sentencing of persons with sentences increased under "Three Strikes" law if previous sentencing offenses, or prior convictions used to increase sentences, would no longer qualify as violent and/or serious felonies. Increases punishment for specified sex crimes against children.
Summary of estimate by Legislative Analyst and Director of Finance of fiscal impact on state and local governments: Unknown, but significant net savings to the state ranging from several tens of millions of dollars to several hundreds of millions of dollars annually due to lower prison operating costs partially offset by costs associated with court-related activities, parole supervision, and the incarceration of and counseling services for sex offenders. Potential state deferral of several hundreds of millions of dollars in capital outlay costs associated with delayed construction of additional prison beds. Increased one-time costs of up to several tens of millions of dollars for jail and court-related costs; ongoing costs of a couple of tens of millions of dollars

 

[SewingDeb]

Someone (I've forgotten who now) replied to one of my posts regarding street level dealers not making any money. They do make tons of money...that's one of the main reasons they risk jail time to do it. If they were not making the $$$ there would be no point in doing it.

I agree that if drugs were legalized and government controlled, a lot of this would be eliminated because the profit factor would be gone. Children and teens would be much less likely to be able to get the drugs to get hooked in the first place. Prohibition didn't work, neither does the war on drugs.

Please don't think I'm a drug user because I am not. It's just logical to compare prohibition with the war on drugs.

 

[nanandjim]

Someone (I've forgotten who now) replied to one of my posts regarding street level dealers not making any money. They do make tons of money...that's one of the main reasons they risk jail time to do it. If they were not making the $$$ there would be no point in doing it.

I agree that if drugs were legalized and government controlled, a lot of this would be eliminated because the profit factor would be gone. Children and teens would be much less likely to be able to get the drugs to get hooked in the first place. Prohibition didn't work, neither does the war on drugs.

Please don't think I'm a drug user because I am not. It's just logical to compare prohibition with the war on drugs.

I don't know about the legalization of drugs. I think that I might use some of them if they were legal. As it stands, I just wouldn't jeopardize what I have to do something illegal. I think that there might be lots of people who would use them if they were legal. Many might unintentionally get hooked on drugs. Then, you have an entire new batch of addicts that need help. I guess that we would have to open all sorts of new clinics to deal with the new addicts. Of course, this would have to come from our taxes.

I don't know the answer except to say that if you teach your children about personal responsibility, perhaps, they'll grow up to make the right decisions most of the time.

My husband didn't have a drink until he was 21 years of age. He never has had a drink at home. He is a moderate drinker now. I tried alcohol at the age of 15 and got very sick. I don't remember drinking for years. I never really liked the taste of alcohol. Of course, it never kept me from drinking way too much in my 20's and 30's. Now, I am pretty mellow. I rarely drink. When we go out and I have a drink or two, I always wish that I hadn't. Drinking just makes me tired and it makes me feel psychologically yucky all the next day.

 

[Brefie]

Someone (I've forgotten who now) replied to one of my posts regarding street level dealers not making any money. They do make tons of money...that's one of the main reasons they risk jail time to do it. If they were not making the $$$ there would be no point in doing it.

I was the one who said that street level dealers probably resort to that due to a lack of other option or resources. I never said they did not make any money.

I stand by my opinion that they can rarely afford the best attorneys, which is absolutely what I was alluding to.

 

[southcitymom]

I was the one who said that street level dealers probably resort to that due to a lack of other option or resources. I never said they did not make any money.

I stand by my opinion that they can rarely afford the best attorneys, which is absolutely what I was alluding to.

I agree with this. I bought from street level dealers. They can earn a decent living - mainly because it is tax-free. However, with rare exception (ie - I never met one who wasn't), street level dealers are addicts.

The big fish in the drug game usually aren't addicts. The drug trade is business and they aren't about to eat up the profits. They tend to look down at addicts and to feel themselves to be superior.

Last year I sat on a jury for a large drug trafficking case with some pretty big players. The high level dealer who moved kilos and kilos of cocaine and heroin and hundreds of thousands of tabs of XTC into the Atlanta market over the course of a year got furious when he found out his mistress (a stripper, of course) had taken a hit of X one night. Other testimony during the course of the trial showed his disdain for people who used.

This high level dealer had a great attorney, but all of the street level dealers that tesitifed against him were addicts with court-appointed counsel.

 

[imthemom]

Selling drugs is illegal. Selling alcohol is not.

But driving drunk is.

 

[KansasCutie]

uhh this is absolutely nuts. i think its completely unfair!

 

[JBean]

I also want to add that 50 grams of cocaine is probably a legal threshhold of some sort. I know here in CA, having more or less than 15 grams is a big differnce in charge and consequence and I would guess that 50 puts you into yet another category, in terms of severity of the crime.
50 grams is fair amount of coke, couple ounces. Perhaps that changes the level of felony.
His sentence is federally mandated so that is where we have to look for answers.

 

[imthemom]

I agree with this. I bought from street level dealers. They can earn a decent living - mainly because it is tax-free. However, with rare exception (ie - I never met one who wasn't), street level dealers are addicts.

The big fish in the drug game usually aren't addicts. The drug trade is business and they aren't about to eat up the profits. They tend to look down at addicts and to feel themselves to be superior.

Last year I sat on a jury for a large drug trafficking case with some pretty big players. The high level dealer who moved kilos and kilos of cocaine and heroin and hundreds of thousands of tabs of XTC into the Atlanta market over the course of a year got furious when he found out his mistress (a stripper, of course) had taken a hit of X one night. Other testimony during the course of the trial showed his disdain for people who used.

This high level dealer had a great attorney, but all of the street level dealers that tesitifed against him were addicts with court-appointed counsel.

What was his sentence, may I ask. I agree, in our community there are well known drug dealers, big time dealers who know one messes with, they no better. The stree dealers are almost always addicts, just looking to score some cash to buy some more drugs for themselves. Wow I didn't think this thread would get this long. I never said he just should get rehab, I think he should be punished but I think life is ridiculous. People make choices and doing drugs are one of them. We all make our life what it is. These drug dealers don't force people to do them, they do them voluntarily. I just think it is unfair that people with money can get off with lighter sentences then people who have none. This is where we need to think about where our justice system is going wrong, when people can kill a baby and get probation, we have problems.

 

[southcitymom]

What was his sentence, may I ask. I agree, in our community there are well known drug dealers, big time dealers who know one messes with, they no better. The stree dealers are almost always addicts, just looking to score some cash to buy some more drugs for themselves. Wow I didn't think this thread would get this long. I never said he just should get rehab, I think he should be punished but I think life is ridiculous. People make choices and doing drugs are one of them. We all make our life what it is. These drug dealers don't force people to do them, they do them voluntarily. I just think it is unfair that people with money can get off with lighter sentences then people who have none. This is where we need to think about where our justice system is going wrong, when people can kill a baby and get probation, we have problems.

I don't know what the big-time dealer's sentence was. We did find him guilty on a number of counts - we also found some others guilty. I have not kept up with his case to know what the sentencing was.

It was sad to me. This guy was a good businessman. If he had chosen a legal product, he would be CEO of some company by now.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

True that he is that but he is not a threat to people, those are the ones who need to be locked up. I agree he should be punished but this is harsh, the rest of his life. It basically comes down to him not having money for a fancy lawyer and so he spends the rest of his life in prison. Everyone has a story, I would like to hear his. He probably came from a poor family, possible abuse, now has drug and alcohol issues. These people need rehabilitation not prison.

Not a threat to people??? Do you realize how much dope 50 grams is? How many lives need to be ruined by these scum sucking dealers? If nothing else, one less dealer is on the street and if they can send a message to the others, I think this is space well used. Moreover, anyone who deals with this much dope is not a basic street level dealer. This guy probably makes more money that we do. He could probably afford a decent attorney. And, we don't even know that he was an addict, do we? Many dealers are smart enough to not use their own product. The assumption that he came from a poor family is just that. An assumption. He may have two hard working, successful parents and he's just a spoiled lazy brat who didn't want to have to work for a living. Apparently, he didn't learn any lessons from being busted the first few times, so perhaps he didn't think prison was such a bad place to be. He knew what he was facing.

 

[imthemom]

Not a threat to people??? Do you realize how much dope 50 grams is? How many lives need to be ruined by these scum sucking dealers? If nothing else, one less dealer is on the street and if they can send a message to the others, I think this is space well used. Moreover, anyone who deals with this much dope is not a basic street level dealer. This guy probably makes more money that we do. He could probably afford a decent attorney. And, we don't even know that he was an addict, do we? Many dealers are smart enough to not use their own product. The assumption that he came from a poor family is just that. An assumption. He may have two hard working, successful parents and he's just a spoiled lazy brat who didn't want to have to work for a living. Apparently, he didn't learn any lessons from being busted the first few times, so perhaps he didn't think prison was such a bad place to be. He knew what he was facing.

We do know that he is an addict his attorney stated so and he has never been convicted of a violent crime, just drug offenses, 28 years was enough I think, life is ridiculous, if we went by this standard our prisons would be even more overcrowded then they are now, like someone stated earlier the only ones winning the war on drugs are the ones working for the cause. People choose to do drugs like I said before, like drinking alcohol or anything else no one forced them to do it. I'm just saying if this is good for one then it should be for all including the rich and famous and definitely child abusers, murders, molesters.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

We do know that he is an addict his attorney stated so and he has never been convicted of a violent crime, just drug offenses, 28 years was enough I think, life is ridiculous, if we went by this standard our prisons would be even more overcrowded then they are now, like someone stated earlier the only ones winning the war on drugs are the ones working for the cause. People choose to do drugs like I said before, like drinking alcohol or anything else no one forced them to do it. I'm just saying if this is good for one then it should be for all including the rich and famous and definitely child abusers, murders, molesters.

Three strikes laws!!!

 

[JBean]

We do know that he is an addict his attorney stated so and he has never been convicted of a violent crime, just drug offenses, 28 years was enough I think, life is ridiculous, if we went by this standard our prisons would be even more overcrowded then they are now, like someone stated earlier the only ones winning the war on drugs are the ones working for the cause. People choose to do drugs like I said before, like drinking alcohol or anything else no one forced them to do it. I'm just saying if this is good for one then it should be for all including the rich and famous and definitely child abusers, murders, molesters.

well it does apply to all if they are convicted of these same offenses, in number and severity. It is federally mandated.

 

[imthemom]

well it does apply to all if they are convicted of these same offenses, in number and severity. It is federally mandated.

Yes three strikes but he did not have to get life it could have been 28 years. That was the judges decision for life.