Found Deceased IL - Vanessa Ceja Ramirez, 22, murdered, Midlothian, 2 Nov 2020

[evilwise]

It just seems odd to me that a perp would go to such lengths to conceal evidence but be so foolish as to take his victim's phone to his home. I also don't know why there would be sacks of evidence removed if it wasn't a crime scene.

 

[Yemelyan]

It just seems odd to me that a perp would go to such lengths to conceal evidence but be so foolish as to take his victim's phone to his home. I also don't know why there would be sacks of evidence removed if it wasn't a crime scene.

They usually put each item in a separate brown bag to avoid cross contamination so removing several sets of clothes and shoes, items that matched a ligature, etc may look like quite a lot of evidence. JMO as I don't really know exactly what was taken away.

And some offender behaviors do seem foolish, I doubt the person responsible for this is a criminal mastermind, as most people who attack and rape women are not masterminds. When they get away with it, it's often through dumb luck.

 

[Userid]

Police were called, and helicopters and dogs were dispatched to the 2-square-mile, triangle-shaped wooded area. They picked up Ceja Ramirez's scent at 151st and Pulaski and then her cellphone's last ping, which led investigators to an apartment building 2 miles away in Oak Forest. A police canvass found nothing.
$10K reward offered for information in Harvey woman's murder, disappearance in Midlothian forest preserve

The trail near 153rd & S. Pulaski Road in the Midlothian Meadows Forest Preserve, where police found the body of Vanessa Ceja-Ramirez.
(Bill Jones / Daily Southtown)
Activists increase reward to $9,000 in ‘heinous and blatantly evil’ death of Harvey woman found in Midlothian forest preserve

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏!

So if I understand this right - dogs picked up Vanessa's scent @151st & Pulaski.

Vanessa's body was found @153rd & Pulaski.

Bremen Forest comes into play because of the flyer family made right after she went missing. They listed Bremen Forest as her "last seen" location-11/2@4:00PM.

Great post, thank you. This is always confusing when it comes to media. Specifically regarding the Southtown picture you pasted in your post, it states that the picture itself is one of the trail near 153rd and Pulaski, but it still isn't known if the body was found near this particular section of the trail, in my opinion. I say this partly because, the section of the trail at 153rd and Pulaski is a riskier location to leave a body compared to 151st and Pulaski, as this stretch of the trail is essentially between the only two entrances of the parking lot (indicated in the red marker in this map): خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

Of course, it's not impossible to believe the body was left here, especially if the crime took place in these woods and not somewhere else. However, I believe that it would have been more logical for the killer to leave the body in the northern section of Midlothian Meadows, because I imagine that the foot traffic there would be far less that the foot traffic at the section of the trail at 153rd and Pulaski, because many people perhaps would simply walk the loop of the parking lot and not venture north around the entire length of the trail. For example, in this map here, the trail for people who wouldn't want to walk the entire length is highlighted in blue. You can see it's at least a 2 mile walk, 40 minute walk, which the majority of walkers would opt for as it's shorter in distance and time, as opposed to walking the entire length of Tinley Creek all the way around: خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

My point is this: if her body was found at 153rd and Pulaski, it was pretty much found in the heart of Midlothian Meadows, where the majority of walkers and searchers would have been. If this was indeed the case, how in the world didn't police find her body, if it wasn't dumped there after they searched? And if it was dumped there after it was searched, again, why would the killer dump it in the heart of the forest preserve?

Another interesting note is that there is a green clearing that stretches into the woods, you can see it in relation to the Tinley Creek trail in this map: خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

 

[Userid]

It just seems odd to me that a perp would go to such lengths to conceal evidence but be so foolish as to take his victim's phone to his home. I also don't know why there would be sacks of evidence removed if it wasn't a crime scene.

You know, the thought occurred to me that perhaps she got lost on her way back to Midlothian Meadows. It would have been very easy for someone who isn't familiar with the area. If she turned around at Bremen Grove and was walking east on 159th trying to get back to MM, she could have easily taken a left on Central, mistaking it for Cicero. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, but it is possible and would explain why her cell pinged at that apartment complex -- because it was still on and still in her possession.

But for this theory to work, it would need to require an unbelievable coincidence for the killer to dump her body in the very nature preserve were her family just so happened to walk that day.

 

[evilwise]

You know, the thought occurred to me that perhaps she got lost on her way back to Midlothian Meadows. It would have been very easy for someone who isn't familiar with the area. If she turned around at Bremen Grove and was walking east on 159th trying to get back to MM, she could have easily taken a left on Central, mistaking it for Cicero. I don't necessarily subscribe to this theory, but it is possible and would explain why her cell pinged at that apartment complex -- because it was still on and still in her possession.

But for this theory to work, it would need to require an unbelievable coincidence for the killer to dump her body in the very nature preserve were her family just so happened to walk that day.

It's the closest wooded area right?

 

[Yemelyan]

It's the closest wooded area right?

No, not even close. The apartment complex is right across the street from an even larger and more wooded area, Rubio Woods.

 

[Userid]

It's the closest wooded area right?

Good question -- no, there is another wooded area called Rubio Woods directly northeast to the Manchester Court Apartment Complex where her cell pinged, you can see the complex in relation to both wooded areas in this map, MM is 4 miles southwest of the apartment complex, whereas Rubio Woods is a stone's throw away: خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

 

[Userid]

I just stumbled upon this Facebook video where it states: "After she was already missing, her phone pinged..." We don't know exactly how long after she was missing that it pinged -- was it hours after she was reported missing? Day(s)? -- but I interpret this to mean that it was a decent length of time (like the next day or so) after she was reported missing at least, though I could be wrong. Video: Who killed Vanessa Ceja Ramirez? She was in the Midlothian Meadows Forest Preserve with her family Monday

But this brings us back to square one: if the killer was smart enough to turn off her phone, why would he turn it back on once he got back to his apartment? Killers do like to take trophies and perhaps the killer did want to see the contents of her phone, but still. Perhaps he somehow thought he was safe to turn it on because he lived in an apartment complex and that the other cellphones in the building would interfere/hide the victim's cellphone signal/location -- that's my best guess thus far.

 

[CatsMeoww]

I wonder if there’s any possible connection with Jake Cefolia’s disappearance (the airline exec).

IL - IL - Jake Cefolia, 49, jogging, car found, SVP of United Airlines, Chicago, 6 Aug 2020

His car was found about 26 minutes from where Vanessa’s body was found. It was also a nature preserve type area with hiking trails.

Not much else in common between these two cases, but enough that reading this thread set off the alarm bells in my head to check if this all happened nearby where Jake went missing,

imgur.com
^ screenshot of both locations marked on Google maps

 

[Yemelyan]

One of the reasons I don't think she took a wrong turn and ended up encountering foul play somewhere else (Aka the apartment complex), only to be dumped later back at Midlothian Meadows, is that her family found pieces of her clothing at Midlothian Meadows when they searched for her.

I guess it's not totally out of the realm of possibility that the perpetrator scattered her stuff to cause confusion but I think it's more likely that it speaks to a struggle taking place at Midlothian Meadows.

It is confusing why her body was not found until 2 days later, just as it always is in these types of cases, but I think most ground searching was done by civilian volunteers and they weren't organized grid searches. IMO it can be shockingly hard to find a body in a wooded area/brush even if you are trained to look for one.

 

[Userid]

One of the reasons I don't think she took a wrong turn and ended up encountering foul play somewhere else (Aka the apartment complex), only to be dumped later back at Midlothian Meadows, is that her family found pieces of her clothing at Midlothian Meadows when they searched for her.

I guess it's not totally out of the realm of possibility that the perpetrator scattered her stuff to cause confusion but I think it's more likely that it speaks to a struggle taking place at Midlothian Meadows.

It is confusing why her body was not found until 2 days later, just as it always is in these types of cases, but I think most ground searching was done by civilian volunteers and they weren't organized grid searches. IMO it can be shockingly hard to find a body in a wooded area/brush even if you are trained to look for one.

With regard to your last paragraph, I've read that police, search dogs, and helicopters were all involved in the search -- not just volunteers. She still could have been missed of course, even with police and search dogs performing a ground search.

Occam's razor would be that the crime occurred in the trails and that police/searchers missed the body, so I tend to believe that. Her phone pinged after she had disappeared because it was taken as a trophy and the killer couldn't help himself to turn it on to see what was on it. Right now, that's what I think happened.

I wonder if there are any small creeks or ravines in the area, or where exactly the body had been found. Either way, the police will have a better idea once the autopsy is performed and the TOD is determined. If she were in the elements for two days, that would also give police an idea as to whether or not the crime occurred in the trails or elsewhere.

 

[Userid]

I wonder if there’s any possible connection with Jake Cefolia’s disappearance (the airline exec).

IL - IL - Jake Cefolia, 49, jogging, car found, SVP of United Airlines, Chicago, 6 Aug 2020

His car was found about 26 minutes from where Vanessa’s body was found. It was also a nature preserve type area with hiking trails.

Not much else in common between these two cases, but enough that reading this thread set off the alarm bells in my head to check if this all happened nearby where Jake went missing,

imgur.com
^ screenshot of both locations marked on Google maps

I'm surprised I never heard of this case. When I first heard of VM's case, the one case it reminded me of was the Delphi Historic Trail Murders in Indiana.

 

[Yemelyan]

With regard to your last paragraph, I've read that police, search dogs, and helicopters were all involved in the search -- not just volunteers. She still could have been missed of course, even with police and search dogs performing a ground search.

Snipped.

I am aware police, helicopters and search dogs were used (I've discussed the scent dogs previously in this thread); however, it's my opinion that a great deal of the searching was done by civilian volunteers. IMO she may even have been first located by volunteers. Which is why I said "most" in my post not "just" or "only." And part of the reason why I believe this, is from watching videos posted of the family's vigil that took place a few days ago. A lot of people in the surrounding area organized themselves to look for her and seem to be frustrated with both the official search effort and lack of official updates. All MOO.

 

[Userid]

Snipped.

I am aware police, helicopters and search dogs were used (I've discussed the scent dogs previously in this thread); however, it's my opinion that a great deal of the searching was done by civilian volunteers. IMO she may even have been first located by volunteers. Which is why I said "most" in my post not "just" or "only." And part of the reason why I believe this, is from watching videos posted of the family's vigil that took place a few days ago. A lot of people in the surrounding area organized themselves to look for her and seem to be frustrated with both the official search effort and lack of official updates. All MOO.

In one video I saw, the volunteers were told by police to clear the area once the body was found, so I would assume it was the police that discovered it. I find it hard to believe that police wouldn't do the majority of searching, particularly in those first two days, as opposed to volunteers -- but that's as speculative as your assumption.

 

[Userid]

I can't imagine that someone premeditated enough to be walking around with a bottle of accelerant would be so careless as to then take her phone back home with him though one of his associates might. The burned body smacks to me of gang activity although they usually do it in an abandoned building so probably just inspired by gang mode of operation.

I think this was someone who knew her or who picked her up from the park. I think that she was lured back to that apartment which is the location in which she was assaulted (bags containing bedding and rugs and stuff), that's why her phone was on up until that time - she went willingly. I can't imagine that a ping would be accurate enough to identify a specific apartment in an apartment complex so I lean toward the suspect having some established relationship to the victim.

As far as the abundance of strangled sex workers in the Chicagoland area, while it might be accurate to say that one or probably more "serial killers" are operating there, it's more of a social/cultural problem than what you might think of when you think about investigating serial killers and one that requires more of a social/cultural solution than stopping a traditional serial killer.

Your first paragraph made me think that perhaps this wasn't necessarily premeditated. It depends on what was used. There is a report that her hands were bound, but with what? Just for an example, if her shoelaces were used, that would point to being a spur of the moment crime, etc. We know the body was "burned," but we don't know the degree. If the body was burned with the intent to destroy it in its entirety, then the killer had to have returned to the body within the 2 days before it was discovered. I don't think he was carrying a gas can around when he abducted her, but rather, he stashed the body and returned to the crime scene at some point (i.e. overnight), to further destroy evidence that he couldn't initially -- would have been extremely risky, but more plausible, in my opinion.

 

[Yemelyan]

In one video I saw, the volunteers were told by police to clear the area once the body was found, so I would assume it was the police that discovered it. I find it hard to believe that police wouldn't do the majority of searching, particularly in those first two days, as opposed to volunteers -- but that's as speculative as your assumption.

As to the bolded, yep, it sure is. Each of us can take information that we find from various sources (unfortunately we can't discuss all of them here, but for good reason) and use it to form our opinion and that's the beauty of Websleuths - anything that's clearly as an opinion and stated as such can be taken with a very large grain of salt. I know that's certainly what I do.

Now to get back to the murder of Vanessa Ceja Ramirez, this video by Univision Chicago shows good footage both of Midlothian Meadows and the Manchester Court Apartments where the last signal from her phone originated for those who are curious what it looks like.

Vanessa Ceja

An earlier video from the same news source shows LE removing some bags of evidence and investigative equipment. Articles about her initial disappearance all stated that a police canvass of the apartment complex "found nothing" (see the original ABC7 Chicago articles) but this Univision video seems to indicate evidence was removed from an apartment there on November 6th. For reference, Vanessa disappeared on Monday November 2nd.

 

[Yemelyan]

As those who've followed this tragedy from the beginning know, the community rallied behind the family of Vanessa, not only helping search but community activists spoke out on her behalf to spread awareness of the crime and advocate for her. Some of the most important details we have actually came from these activists, as they've given numerous interviews to news outlets.

Here is a video from a press conference activists who've been working with the family held yesterday. Everyone interested in seeing this murder solved needs to view this video. A lot of the supposed facts we've been discussing here are apparently incorrect and this clears up some speculation.

Raul Roberto Montes

They show the exact parking spot that Vanessa's family was parked in when she went missing, and it is at the parking lot at Bremen Grove, NOT Midlothian Meadows! As they note in the video, this is a small parking lot, one entrance and one exit. This totally changes the dynamic of Vanessa separating from her group to return to her car. She wasn't walking back to Midlothian Meadows, she wasn't very far from them at all when the abduction apparently took place.

Vanessa's body was found in the Midlothian Meadows reserve a few miles away, the approximate location of the wooded area she was found is across from Bremen High School.

Now for the bombshell of the report: a POI has been identified and questioned by police but was not arrested.

The activists are advocating for the FBI to be involved and the FBI has told them that the local jurisdictions must request support.

Univision Chicago was one of the outlets at this press conference because they used information from these activists in their news report yesterday. (Posted up thread)

 

[Yemelyan]

Bremen Grove is part of the Tinley Creek Trail System and also borders the Bremen Grove Dog Park (looks like they share a parking lot). This off-leash area is part of the Forest reserves but not just anyone can show up there with their dog, to use the dog park you must have a membership. Obviously anyone can walk in the trails in the regular park section though.

Though it's part of the greater forest reserves that includes Midlothian Meadows where she was found, as has been noted here the trails themselves at Bremen Grove do not connect up directly with Midlothian Meadows.

Bremen Grove is located near a large medical center and numerous businesses.

 

[Userid]

As those who've followed this tragedy from the beginning know, the community rallied behind the family of Vanessa, not only helping search but community activists spoke out on her behalf to spread awareness of the crime and advocate for her. Some of the most important details we have actually came from these activists, as they've given numerous interviews to news outlets.

Here is a video from a press conference activists who've been working with the family held yesterday. Everyone interested in seeing this murder solved needs to view this video. A lot of the supposed facts we've been discussing here are apparently incorrect and this clears up some speculation.

Raul Roberto Montes

They show the exact parking spot that Vanessa's family was parked in when she went missing, and it is at the parking lot at Bremen Grove, NOT Midlothian Meadows! As they note in the video, this is a small parking lot, one entrance and one exit. This totally changes the dynamic of Vanessa separating from her group to return to her car. She wasn't walking back to Midlothian Meadows, she wasn't very far from them at all when the abduction apparently took place.

Vanessa's body was found in the Midlothian Meadows reserve a few miles away, the approximate location of the wooded area she was found is across from Bremen High School.

Now for the bombshell of the report: a POI has been identified and questioned by police but was not arrested.

The activists are advocating for the FBI to be involved and the FBI has told them that the local jurisdictions must request support.

Univision Chicago was one of the outlets at this press conference because they used information from these activists in their news report yesterday. (Posted up thread)

This isn't directed at you, but I have to say, this is getting ridiculous. If she/they went walking and VR went missing both in Bremen Grove, why would almost every news outlet get this wrong initially and say they were walking in Midlothian Meadows? I mean, that is a huge error.

Bremen Grove isn't even in Midlothian; it's in Oak Forest. If these volunteers are accurate, Midlothian Meadows has very little to do with the actual abduction and where the victim/group was walking. So why wouldn't they specify that when she was initially missing? It's just weird.

It's also been said by many outlets that "she never made it" back to the car, but these two volunteers are saying that she did. So are the volunteers wrong or the multiple outlets?

 

[Lusitana]

What is taking so long? This poor girl.