Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #10 *Still Missing*

[kittythehare]

If possible, I presume the Defense will still be calling for a mistrial (on various grounds) through the penalty phase, OR, is that something that cannot be brought up during the penalty phase of a trial?

I also presume that there will be another plea attempt to settle on LWOP if BC tells what he did with the body, and it will be the agonizing decision of the Zhang family if they want that info, knowing it may not lead to retrieval of any remains.

Lastly, just as a caution, I’ll reiterate that all we know from the forensic evidence is that YY was present, harmed, and likely dead in BC’s apt. That’s it! Specifically, what BC did to her there (choking, strangling, raping, stabbing, hitting with baseball bat, decapitating) we DON’T HAVE any direct evidence of, other than his own words on tape — the FBI says his casual claim of 12 other victims is likely a complete fabrication, yet we’re s’posed to assume everything else he says on that tape is 100% true/accurate — very fishy to me; IF mentioning 12 other victims is false, I suspect other parts are false as well.

The FBI have NOT said that the 12 claim is a complete fabrication, on the contrary, they said they don't have evidence he killed anybody else. They sent his DNA to police databases in March , this year and they are still awaiting reply.

I agree with you that there does not appear to be any evidence of anything apart from what you say.

I disagree that one lie about the 12, not disproven, is the same as everything else he claimed.
He said he took her, evidence backs that. He said he killed her, I'm not sure evidence can conclude that. He said he 'did some things', he did.
He claimed he decapitated her, maybe he did or maybe he did not. I really do not see why he would have done that. It served no end. Would not have made her body smaller or lighter..
Only reason for him to do it would have been to film it and sell his black market snuff movie.
No evidence found to suggest that is what happened either though.

 

[dm92]

If possible, I presume the Defense will still be calling for a mistrial (on various grounds) through the penalty phase, OR, is that something that cannot be brought up during the penalty phase of a trial?

Lastly, just as a caution, I’ll reiterate that all we know from the forensic evidence is that YY was present, harmed, and likely dead in BC’s apt. That’s it! Specifically, what BC did to her there (choking, strangling, raping, stabbing, hitting with baseball bat, decapitating) we DON’T HAVE any direct evidence of, other than his own words on tape — the FBI says his casual claim of 12 other victims is likely a complete fabrication, yet we’re s’posed to assume everything else he says on that tape is 100% true/accurate — very fishy to me; IF mentioning 12 other victims is false, I suspect other parts are false as well.

We do have evidence that she was hit with the bat: Her DNA was found on the bat. Specifically, it was found in a luminol-positive patch on the bat. Also, there were streaks of luminol-positive staining, indicating the bat was cleaned.

I have a baseball bat. I have never cleaned it, as far as I can ever remember. Why would you clean a baseball bat? Because you used in a way that got it dirty. True, we can't say for certain that he split her head open with it, but whatever he did was bad enough that he was compelled to clean it to remove evidence of how it was used. If you didn't use the bat, and the DNA on it was just from a few hairs and flaked off skin cells that YY shed while in the apartment, BC would never even thought to clean it - he would have no reason to suspect that some flaked-off skin and hair got on the bat.

RE: mistrial in penalty phase. I am assuming that yes, you can have a mistrial declared in this phase. Then, you would just have to have this phase re-tried; you wouldn't need to go back and start from square one.......

 

[dm92]

He claimed he decapitated her, maybe he did or maybe he did not. I really do not see why he would have done that. It served no end. Would not have made her body smaller or lighter.

.

Two words: Bundy fanboy.

Also, I am of the opinion that he dismembered her in the bathtub to facilitate her removal and disposal. If he did, I think it is likely he did decapitate her.

 

[Raptors001]

Two words: Bundy fanboy.

Also, I am of the opinion that he dismembered her in the bathtub to facilitate her removal and disposal. If he did, I think it is likely he did decapitate her.

Can't believe there are monsters like that...

 

[Raptors001]

The FBI have NOT said that the 12 claim is a complete fabrication, on the contrary, they said they don't have evidence he killed anybody else. They sent his DNA to police databases in March , this year and they are still awaiting reply.

I agree with you that there does not appear to be any evidence of anything apart from what you say.

I disagree that one lie about the 12, not disproven, is the same as everything else he claimed.
He said he took her, evidence backs that. He said he killed her, I'm not sure evidence can conclude that. He said he 'did some things', he did.
He claimed he decapitated her, maybe he did or maybe he did not. I really do not see why he would have done that. It served no end. Would not have made her body smaller or lighter..
Only reason for him to do it would have been to film it and sell his black market snuff movie.
No evidence found to suggest that is what happened either though.

I think if he target people that don't have friends or family, no one will look for them. Probably did that.

 

[kittythehare]

We do have evidence that she was hit with the bat: Her DNA was found on the bat. Specifically, it was found in a luminol-positive patch on the bat. Also, there were streaks of luminol-positive staining, indicating the bat was cleaned.

I have a baseball bat. I have never cleaned it, as far as I can ever remember. Why would you clean a baseball bat? Because you used in a way that got it dirty. True, we can't say for certain that he split her head open with it, but whatever he did was bad enough that he was compelled to clean it to remove evidence of how it was used. If you didn't use the bat, and the DNA on it was just from a few hairs and flaked off skin cells that YY shed while in the apartment, BC would never even thought to clean it - he would have no reason to suspect that some flaked-off skin and hair got on the bat.

RE: mistrial in penalty phase. I am assuming that yes, you can have a mistrial declared in this phase. Then, you would just have to have this phase re-tried; you wouldn't need to go back and start from square one.......

He habitually stored the bat in his bedroom.
Her DNA on the bat is not evidence he hit her with the bat, only that the bat became contaminated with her DNA, that could just as easily be contact DNA, from where her blood spilled on the thing.
9I think it is more likely that he did actually hit her with it, but my opinion is not evidence of what happened, nor is cleaning a blood stained bat evidence of bat's actions.

 

[kittythehare]

I think if he target people that don't have friends or family, no one will look for them. Probably did that.

He did actually refer to missing prostitutes in the vigil tape.

I did a search for missing prostitutes but I came up empty. That is probably because I searched incorrect parameters.
I wonder if there is a database on websleuths ?

 

[Laughing]

He did actually refer to missing prostitutes in the vigil tape.

I did a search for missing prostitutes but I came up empty. That is probably because I searched incorrect parameters.
I wonder if there is a database on websleuths ?

BC lived in Wisconsin. Anyone notice a missing person, vulnerable lifestyle, in Milwaukee?

Chicago is a relatively short drive, likely a larger vulnerable population there?

JMHO YMMV

 

[Webthrush]

BC lived in Wisconsin. Anyone notice a missing person, vulnerable lifestyle, in Milwaukee?

Chicago is a relatively short drive, likely a larger vulnerable population there?

JMHO YMMV

I (and I think others) long ago did a lengthy search for missing persons and unsolved deaths near places BC resided over the last 10 yrs... and came up empty... maybe two cases even remotely matching his whereabouts (of course he could've travelled) and they didn't fit his "type" at all. In the course of 2+ yrs. I think the FBI would've easily made some connection if there were any to make to other deaths (I suspect the report of a March DNA submission to databases was some sort of re-submission, as is commonly done, as they surely submitted his DNA and other info probably within the first two wks. following arrest, JMO).
Very hard to fathom that the first time out-of-the-gate he commits a crime of this magnitude, but also hard to fathom he's such a brilliant monster that he got away with 12 other murders... I think he was just so absorbed in his fantasies and readings that he did this one as a one-off.

 

[Laughing]

I (and I think others) long ago did a lengthy search for missing persons and unsolved deaths near places BC resided over the last 10 yrs... and came up empty... maybe two cases even remotely matching his whereabouts (of course he could've travelled) and they didn't fit his "type" at all. In the course of 2+ yrs. I think the FBI would've easily made some connection if there were any to make to other deaths (I suspect the report of a March DNA submission to databases was some sort of re-submission, as is commonly done, as they surely submitted his DNA and other info probably within the first two wks. following arrest, JMO).
Very hard to fathom that the first time out-of-the-gate he commits a crime of this magnitude, but also hard to fathom he's such a brilliant monster that he got away with 12 other murders... I think he was just so absorbed in his fantasies and readings that he did this one as a one-off.

I remember tracking highway routes between Steven's Point & cities. I'm afraid that there are missing people that no one has reported missing. We see this sad situation fairly often here at WS.

Possibly in his fantasy life/own sick mind he's completed 12 previous murders? He admitted following a woman home. If he imagined that crime to completion, he may grant himself 'credit' for the kill?

IDK, pretty sure I don't want to venture any further into this guy's head!

JMHO YMMV

 

[kittythehare]

I remember tracking highway routes between Steven's Point & cities. I'm afraid that there are missing people that no one has reported missing. We see this sad situation fairly often here at WS.

Possibly in his fantasy life/own sick mind he's completed 12 previous murders? He admitted following a woman home. If he imagined that crime to completion, he may grant himself 'credit' for the kill?

IDK, pretty sure I don't want to venture any further into this guy's head!

JMHO YMMV

Well spoke.
He could quite easily have targeted women that nobody missed.
I don't like his head either.
But it would require very little skill to pick up prostitutes and strangle them and throw them in a river.
Opportunity? Plenty.
Easiest thing in the world to do.
The defense got the 2013 graveyard case thrown out. That was an attempted strangulation too.
He could drive, never a problem discerning the red-light districts in any town or city in the world.
Small ads advertising sex, burner phones, women working alone... too easy.
They need to investigate and no @Webthrush, the only mention of his dNA being sent to databases was in March, this year. Whereas one might wish or speculate it was the second such trawl, there is no evidence to support that available.
The resources they used were limited or they used them in a limiting way.

I have a bad feeling that the same 'limited resources' factor will probably get him LWOP rather than a death sentence.
DEfense have shot their budgets sky high already and another 10-15 years of very expensive appeals lie ahead.
Which is cheaper? To kill him or keep him?

 

[Raptors001]

He did actually refer to missing prostitutes in the vigil tape.

I did a search for missing prostitutes but I came up empty. That is probably because I searched incorrect parameters.
I wonder if there is a database on websleuths ?

He didn't cons

Well spoke.
He could quite easily have targeted women that nobody missed.
I don't like his head either.
But it would require very little skill to pick up prostitutes and strangle them and throw them in a river.
Opportunity? Plenty.
Easiest thing in the world to do.
The defense got the 2013 graveyard case thrown out. That was an attempted strangulation too.
He could drive, never a problem discerning the red-light districts in any town or city in the world.
Small ads advertising sex, burner phones, women working alone... too easy.
They need to investigate and no @Webthrush, the only mention of his dNA being sent to databases was in March, this year. Whereas one might wish or speculate it was the second such trawl, there is no evidence to support that available.
The resources they used were limited or they used them in a limiting way.

I have a bad feeling that the same 'limited resources' factor will probably get him LWOP rather than a death sentence.
DEfense have shot their budgets sky high already and another 10-15 years of very expensive appeals lie ahead.
Which is cheaper? To kill him or keep him?

Kill, cheaper on tax dollars.

 

[dm92]

He habitually stored the bat in his bedroom.
Her DNA on the bat is not evidence he hit her with the bat, only that the bat became contaminated with her DNA, that could just as easily be contact DNA, from where her blood spilled on the thing.
9I think it is more likely that he did actually hit her with it, but my opinion is not evidence of what happened, nor is cleaning a blood stained bat evidence of bat's actions.

I suppose it is possible that it just spilled onto the bat, but we don't know where in the room the bat was. Maybe it was in his closet. Maybe it was by the door..... but, for it to be in a place where YY's blood can spill on it, it would likely have to be under the bed near the wall, right under where the stain on the mattress was; right next to the wall where her blood ran down and went through the baseboard and under the carpet.. Remembering the pictures of his bedroom, the stain was roughly in the middle of the makeshift bed, right next to the wall. The bed was pushed up right against the wall. It makes little sense that the bat would be under the bed there. Presumably, BC had the bat in the room as a weapon against potential intruders. If it is under there in that spot, BC would never be able to grab the bat quickly -he'd have to move the bed to get at it. Technically, it is possible the bat could have been there, but it makes little sense as to why it would be in that spot.

In the end though, our opinions don't matter. The jury's opinion is what will matter -and the jury is allowed to make reasonable inferences from what they know in order to reach conclusions.

BC had a baseball bat
A bat can be used as a weapon
Investigators found the bat in his bedroom
Luminol application revealed a patch of staining, and streaks of staining, indicating cleaning.
Stained patch negative for blood, but DNA isolated from it and shown to be YY's.
BC tells TEB he hit YY in the head with the bat in the bathtub, and it broke her head open
BC tells TEB that the FBI has the bat that he hit her on the head with -so he is clearly worried about it.
and also.... cadaver dog alerts that a corpse had been present in the bathroom.

Thus, from all this it seems more reasonable that a jury would conclude that BC did in fact use the bat as he said he did, and this is a more reasonable explanation of events than that the bat just happened to be lying in a place that made little sense for it to be, and her blood just happened to drip onto it

 

[Raptors001]

If he intends to use it as a weapon he woulda leaned it against the wall. Quick to grab and use. Imo

 

[kittythehare]

I suppose it is possible that it just spilled onto the bat, but we don't know where in the room the bat was. Maybe it was in his closet. Maybe it was by the door..... but, for it to be in a place where YY's blood can spill on it, it would likely have to be under the bed near the wall, right under where the stain on the mattress was; right next to the wall where her blood ran down and went through the baseboard and under the carpet.. Remembering the pictures of his bedroom, the stain was roughly in the middle of the makeshift bed, right next to the wall. The bed was pushed up right against the wall. It makes little sense that the bat would be under the bed there. Presumably, BC had the bat in the room as a weapon against potential intruders. If it is under there in that spot, BC would never be able to grab the bat quickly -he'd have to move the bed to get at it. Technically, it is possible the bat could have been there, but it makes little sense as to why it would be in that spot.

In the end though, our opinions don't matter. The jury's opinion is what will matter -and the jury is allowed to make reasonable inferences from what they know in order to reach conclusions.

BC had a baseball bat
A bat can be used as a weapon
Investigators found the bat in his bedroom
Luminol application revealed a patch of staining, and streaks of staining, indicating cleaning.
Stained patch negative for blood, but DNA isolated from it and shown to be YY's.
BC tells TEB he hit YY in the head with the bat in the bathtub, and it broke her head open
BC tells TEB that the FBI has the bat that he hit her on the head with -so he is clearly worried about it.
and also.... cadaver dog alerts that a corpse had been present in the bathroom.

Thus, from all this it seems more reasonable that a jury would conclude that BC did in fact use the bat as he said he did, and this is a more reasonable explanation of events than that the bat just happened to be lying in a place that made little sense for it to be, and her blood just happened to drip onto it

Think I read it in Michelle's testimony... but double check that.
what do you reckon the 'bought some things ' included?
We only know he bought the bag.
What else did he buy?
Was pleural.

 

[dm92]

Think I read it in Michelle's testimony... but double check that.
what do you reckon the 'bought some things ' included?
We only know he bought the bag.
What else did he buy?
Was pleural.

That's a good question. Presumably, they didn't all have to come from amazon. He could have bought a knife to use at a local store, and paid cash for it, so there would be no record of it that could be traced to him. Also could have bought duct tape. Could have bought his fake badge..... Many possibilities.

 

[dm92]

If he intends to use it as a weapon he woulda leaned it against the wall. Quick to grab and use. Imo

That's why I don't think it would be all the way under the bed, near the spot where YY's blood ran down the wall from the bed....

 

[kittythehare]

That's a good question. Presumably, they didn't all have to come from amazon. He could have bought a knife to use at a local store, and paid cash for it, so there would be no record of it that could be traced to him. Also could have bought duct tape. Could have bought his fake badge..... Many possibilities.

Preservative?
I'm thinking along the lines that, if he did it before without leaving a trace, is it possible he was upping the stakes by doing it in broad daylight?
Michelle left late Thursday, he could have done it under the cover of darkness quite easily without leaving a trace or being spotted on camera?

 

[kittythehare]

That's why I don't think it would be all the way under the bed, near the spot where YY's blood ran down the wall from the bed....

UNDER THE BED
Reporter’s Notebook: Complete notes from the Christensen trial
Eades

 

[Raptors001]

Badge, walkie talkie, chemicals, knives, tiewraps, duct tape.