Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #156

[CSIDreamer]

That’s precisely what it DOES mean.
He’s being transported to the hearing.

The hearing is Tuesday. That's how my brain works. My brain says he's been transferred to a facility for the hearing.

 

[photographer4]

SBMFF

This is what comes to mind for me when I read RI's comment "It was just not your normal ‘a person was killed here’ crime scene.".

Perhaps he posed them so they were sitting up. I'd think most murdered people end up sprawled in some fashion on the ground. Unless they were killed against a vertical surface like a wall and they slid down and the wall held them up.

JMO

This is also what I think - that maybe the killer posed them in a sitting position. Something about the scene didn’t have the usual someone was killed here to it per RI. Why not? Especially if the kids lost blood at the scene?

 

[twall]

Best we can hope for is a good twitter reporter.

Some courts do live stream with no recording (started during COVID) so may be a possibility but I am doubtful. JMO

 

[photographer4]

DELPHI, Ind. — The special judge overseeing the Delphi murder case wants Richard Allen to appear in person for a critical hearing next week.

Allen County Judge Fran Gull made the request for the Nov. 22 hearing to determine if court records filed in the case should be unsealed. Charging documents related to Allen’s arrest have been under court seal at the request of Carroll County Prosecutor Nick McLeland.

Judge wants Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen in court for Nov. 22 hearing

Allen County Judge Fran Gull was appointed to oversee Allen’s case.

www.wane.com

.

Is having the accused appear in person the usual way things are done out there when it’s regarding the PC being kept sealed or unsealed? I’m a bit surprised they don’t have him appear via live video feed actually. Maybe that’s just not how it’s done out there?

 

[taylorss]

Bringing him to the hearing gives his lawyers a real chance to meet with him - they’ve got a big job ahead of them moo

 

[Gemmie]

Is having the accused appear in person the usual way things are done out there when it’s regarding the PC being kept sealed or unsealed? I’m a bit surprised they don’t have him appear via live video feed actually. Maybe that’s just not how it’s done out there?

To add to what you said Covid hasn't gone away yet, so I find it odd he has to do it in person. Although one can always wear a mask.

I also found this so maybe we can view it? I'm not 100% sure what that means. Public access to what? To our ability to view live online? To answer the Q of whether the public can have access to more info?

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[Gemmie]

More info found on the link below:

11/02/2022	Hearing Scheduling Activity Pretrial Conference scheduled for 01/13/2023 at 9:00 AM.
11/02/2022	Hearing Scheduling Activity Jury Trial scheduled for 03/20/2023 at 9:00 AM.
11/02/2022	Hearing Scheduling Activity Jury Trial scheduled for 03/21/2023 at 9:00 AM.
11/02/2022	Hearing Scheduling Activity Jury Trial scheduled for 03/22/2023 at 9:00 AM.
11/02/2022	Hearing Scheduling Activity Jury Trial scheduled for 03/23/2023 at 9:00 AM.
11/02/2022	Hearing Scheduling Activity Jury Trial scheduled for 03/24/2023 at 9:00 AM.

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[Chelly]

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Carroll County officials are meeting this week to determine how to handle the anticipated rush of media and onlookers who will throng to the county courthouse in downtown Delphi next Tuesday for the first public hearing into the case of the man accused of killing two girlsnear the Monon High Bridge along Deer Creek more than five years ago.

Carroll County prepares for hearing into Delphi murders case

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — Carroll County officials are meeting this week to determine how to handle the anticipated rush of media and onlookers who will throng to the county courthouse in downtown Del…

fox59.com

from link in above MSM article

 

[Gemmie]

No, no cameras allowed in courtrooms in Indiana.

I stumbled across something by accident that I THINK may be in our favor.

Apparently there's a recent pilot program allowing some trials to be broadcast. This was filed ~1 year ago so fairly recent. I do not know if the pilot is over or not. With the attention this one has gotten I'm thinking we just might be in luck. With that said... it was a 4 month trial so would have ended in April (Started in Dec '21). I'm trying to see if the pilot was a success or not, and if they decided to continue with this. So far I've just hit a wall.

Just take a lookiepoo at this:

Courts in five Indiana counties will be exempt from a rule within the Indiana Code of Judicial Conduct, which prohibits judges from broadcasting court proceedings.

Unless 'i' rules this out. While RA obviously isn't a juvenile, the 2 victims were. I'm not sure if 'i' impacts broadcasting or not.

Pilot program allows select Indiana court trials to be broadcast

Courts in five Indiana counties will be exempt from a rule within the Indiana Code of Judicial Conduct, which prohibits judges from broadcasting court proceedings.

www.wthr.com

PDF not embedded in above news article: https://www.in.gov/courts/files/order-other-2021-21S-MS-454.pdf

For additional information on the broadcast pilot project, visit on.in.gov/community-relations​

 

[Mellowmelly]

I stumbled across something by accident that I THINK may be in our favor.

Apparently there's a recent pilot program allowing some trials to be broadcast. This was filed ~1 year ago so fairly recent. I do not know if the pilot is over or not. With the attention this one has gotten I'm thinking we just might be in luck. With that said... it was a 4 month trial so would have ended in April (Started in Dec '21). I'm trying to see if the pilot was a success or not, and if they decided to continue with this. So far I've just hit a wall.

Just take a lookiepoo at this:

Courts in five Indiana counties will be exempt from a rule within the Indiana Code of Judicial Conduct, which prohibits judges from broadcasting court proceedings.

View attachment 380831

Unless 'i' rules this out. While RA obviously isn't a juvenile, the 2 victims were. I'm not sure if 'i' impacts broadcasting or not.
View attachment 380832

Pilot program allows select Indiana court trials to be broadcast

Courts in five Indiana counties will be exempt from a rule within the Indiana Code of Judicial Conduct, which prohibits judges from broadcasting court proceedings.

www.wthr.com

PDF not embedded in above news article: https://www.in.gov/courts/files/order-other-2021-21S-MS-454.pdf

For additional information on the broadcast pilot project, visit on.in.gov/community-relations​

I thought all American court cases/trials were televised? I'm from the UK and none are televised here although they have just allowed the judges final remarks to be televised in certain cases.

 

[SMK777]

The hearing is Tuesday. That's how my brain works. My brain says he's been transferred to a facility for the hearing.

That’s correct. That was the first step. I feel like I’m going crazy. What am I missing about your “mistake”?

 

[newredtabby]

If they could solve it decades ago with what they have then it must be actual physical evidence then, vs heavily reliant on DNA. I imagine DNA is a bonus in this case. I wonder what they have? I saw an interview on HLN: “Down The Hill” (which is available on YouTube), and the LE interviewed stated that the crime scene investigators were out there for 4 days. It was an interesting remark when given another reporter went to the area where the kids were found with RL sometime after the police were finished and the scene was unremarkable. If you hadn’t known two kids were found dead in that general area, you wouldn’t have known anything was out of place at all really. So what was there that took so long to examine or to bag and tag? Had this been an area where people often went to let loose? A party area? Was this some sort of makeshift worship area for some sort of cult? Was this an area where lovers often took their partners to avoid hotel fees?? What was there that took so long and meant they could have solved it back int he 50s or 60s??

I agree. And, furthermore, what physical evidence could have possibly been at the crime scene that a 1960s detective would presume they would have their man in 48 hours? Short of the perp having left their ID at the scene, or an eye witness to the murders who knew the killer, I don't get it. Fingerprints and the perps blood found on scene would take longer than that, even if they knew who the person was, which they wouldn't.

I cannot imagine what scenario would lead Ives to make that statement. And, the fact that he did, makes the almost 6 years it has taken LE to get to this point even more perplexing.

 

[The Observer]

I agree. And, furthermore, what physical evidence could have possibly been at the crime scene that a 1960s detective would presume they would have their man in 48 hours? Short of the perp having left their ID at the scene, or an eye witness to the murders who knew the killer, I don't get it. Fingerprints and the perps blood found on scene would take longer than that, even if they knew who the person was, which they wouldn't.

I cannot imagine what scenario would lead Ives to make that statement. And, the fact that he did, makes the almost 6 years it has taken LE to get to this point even more perplexing.

Yes and that's all just with circumstances of the scene. Now add to all that they have video and audio of him.

 

[photographer4]

Bringing him to the hearing gives his lawyers a real chance to meet with him - they’ve got a big job ahead of them moo

Shouldn't they have already done this before Monday? One would hope they attended wherever he's being held and discussed the matter with him? Heard his side? Started to seek disclosure from the prosecution etc?

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1593753915362787328

Posted: Nov 18, 2022 / 06:50 PM EST / Updated: Nov 18, 2022 / 06:51 PM EST

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The judge has ordered Richard Allen, the suspect in the 2017 Delphi murders of two teen girls, to appear in person in the courtroom on Tuesday.

I-Team 8 expects to get at least a partial glimpse into the Delphi murders investigation if the judge releases the probable cause to the public after a Tuesday court hearing.

 

[twall]

I thought all American court cases/trials were televised? I'm from the UK and none are televised here although they have just allowed the judges final remarks to be televised in certain cases.

Indiana native here. 47 States allow television cameras in trial and/or appellate courts; only Indiana, Mississippi, South Dakota, and the District of Columbia ban cameras in the courtroom. I believe the judge can halt them if he wants to, wasn't that done recently in the Vallow/Daybell case? In Federal courts cameras are prohibited.

 

[CSIDreamer]

That’s correct. That was the first step. I feel like I’m going crazy. What am I missing about your “mistake”?

My brain makes a distinction between the words transport and transfer. I had commented earlier today that . . . never mind. JMO

I'm not going to get into a debate about how I process different words.

 

[flashy09]

I agree. And, furthermore, what physical evidence could have possibly been at the crime scene that a 1960s detective would presume they would have their man in 48 hours? Short of the perp having left their ID at the scene, or an eye witness to the murders who knew the killer, I don't get it. Fingerprints and the perps blood found on scene would take longer than that, even if they knew who the person was, which they wouldn't.

I cannot imagine what scenario would lead Ives to make that statement. And, the fact that he did, makes the almost 6 years it has taken LE to get to this point even more perplexing.

So I found this article from 1960 just for fun. THE TOUGH AND TEDIOUS JOB OF CATCHING A KILLER | Maclean's | APRIL 23, 1960

 

[twall]

I stumbled across something by accident that I THINK may be in our favor.

Apparently there's a recent pilot program allowing some trials to be broadcast. This was filed ~1 year ago so fairly recent. I do not know if the pilot is over or not. With the attention this one has gotten I'm thinking we just might be in luck. With that said... it was a 4 month trial so would have ended in April (Started in Dec '21). I'm trying to see if the pilot was a success or not, and if they decided to continue with this. So far I've just hit a wall.

Just take a lookiepoo at this:

Courts in five Indiana counties will be exempt from a rule within the Indiana Code of Judicial Conduct, which prohibits judges from broadcasting court proceedings.

View attachment 380831

Unless 'i' rules this out. While RA obviously isn't a juvenile, the 2 victims were. I'm not sure if 'i' impacts broadcasting or not.
View attachment 380832

Pilot program allows select Indiana court trials to be broadcast

Courts in five Indiana counties will be exempt from a rule within the Indiana Code of Judicial Conduct, which prohibits judges from broadcasting court proceedings.

www.wthr.com

PDF not embedded in above news article: https://www.in.gov/courts/files/order-other-2021-21S-MS-454.pdf

For additional information on the broadcast pilot project, visit on.in.gov/community-relations​

Yes, I recall seeing this on the news when it occured and haven't seen anything else about it. One thing about the Allen County, Indiana courthouse is that it is one of the most beautiful structures I've ever seen. Limestone and granite on the interior walls with beautiful painted murals. It is also available to rent for events!

Home | Allen County Courthouse

This is an example page. It's different from a blog post because it will stay in one place and will show up in your site navigation (in most themes). Most people start with an About page that introduces them to potential site visitors. It might say something like this: Hi there! I'm a bike messenger

www.allencountycourthouse.org

 

[Quim The Extraordinaire]

If you go back to the very first post that started the very first Delphi thread, this was the article that was cited:

MISSING: Two 13-year-old Carroll Co. girls

Two 13-year-old Carroll County girls are missing after they were dropped off to go hiking Monday afternoon.

www.wrtv.com

And that article was posted by the news station at 10:29 pm on February 13th with the information that the girls had been on the High Bridge before disappearing. I would think word around Delphi would have been spreading way before that time, though, that the Bridge was a place that they had been.

JMO.

For context: the conversation regarding RA placing himself on the Monon High Bridge wasn’t about whether the girls were thought to be in the area of the Monon High Bridge (MHB) on Feb. 13 — LE and the search team knew where the girls were dropped off and where they were supposed to be picked up.

The question was when — and WHY — RA would have told the state Conservation Officer (CO) that he had been on the Monon High Bridge. That alone SHOULD have rocketed him to the top of a suspect list … but it seemingly did not.

It’s unclear from media reports whether the date provided (Feb 13) in the article regarding the RA statement referred to when the girls were murdered (which was not known Feb 13; they were missing Feb 13) and/or when RA spoke with the CO and said he had been on MHB.

IMHO, RA had this conversation on Feb 13 between 5:30 - 11:59 pm— probably earlier in the evening rather than later for the reasons below.

The article you linked doesn’t refer to the girls being on the MHB proper. The trailhead where they were dropped off is for the Monon High Bridge Trail, and the article refers a few times to the girls having been in that area but not necessarily on the MHB itself:

Carroll County Sheriff Toby Leazenby said Abigail "Abby" Williams and Liberty "Libby" German were last seen around 1 p.m. when they were dropped off near an abandoned railroad bridge known as "Monon High Bridge," east of Delphi.

(RSBM)

Technically, MHB itself was closed and not part of the trail system. The closure was clearly not enforced, but the decrepit state of MHB meant that many (if not most) visitors chose not to cross it because you could easily fall between planks and injure yourself if not fall to your death in places. Those new to the case were astonished that RA would place himself on MHB because it is astonishing: the already limited foot traffic on a February Monday afternoon would be even more limited on MHB itself!

The reason(s) IMO that RA made his statement to the CO early-to-mid evening on 2-13:
1). RA would have been hyper-aware of any potential that he had been spotted in the area (IMHO he was and he knew it).
2). RA knew the murder scene / final location of the bodies was away from the MHB.
3). RA knew the bodies would be found soon. They were off-trail but apparently not well hidden. It would be logical for searchers to focus on the immediate area where the bodies were found.
4). RA was NOT aware when he spoke with the CO of Libby’s snapchat photos — posted 2:07 pm on Feb 13 — placing the girls on MHB proper.
5). Considering #1-4, RA thought proper establishing a reason for being on the MHB earlier rather than later (after the bodies were found) would give him a better cover story if he had indeed been seen in the area.

RA would NOT have spoken to the CO about being on MHB proper IMO if he had any idea that LE would unravel that MHB was the initial physical encounter between the killer (“Bridge Guy”) and the girls. He was trying to cover himself, not implicate himself.

I appreciated the posts about RA being so brazen that he couldn’t help but insert himself into the search before they knew it was a murder investigation. The murders were brazen! He comped the funeral photos as a concerned local citizen. Perhaps we’ll learn that he attended vigils and services and donated to the ballpark to maintain a connection to these murders.

I agree the statement gave him a major rush on top of the thrill of the murders and DID make him the smartest guy in town. His sense of self-preservation was even higher, though, and he would not have placed himself in the vanishingly small subset of folks on MHB proper during the timeframe of the murders if he had known then what LE would soon learn (to paraphrase Doug Carter).

(The above assumes for discussion purposes that RA is BG and the murderer. None of this has been proven in a court of law.)

JMO.