Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #160

[WingsOverTX]

Judge grants defense motion for closed-door hearings

The Delphi double homicide suspect will get closed-door hearings to discuss paying for his representation.

www.wlfi.com

"Richard Allen's attorneys want the hearings to argue for expenses to cover the cost of their investigation, including payment of expert witnesses."

Surely they are not considering some form of insanity / mental incapacity defense?

What other possible defense experts would they want to hide?

Would love to hear your ideas!

I hope the judge will severely limit any hearings that exclude the prosecution. It may be legal but seems like dirty pool to a layperson like me.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

I personally think the person in the second sketch has a nose that looks a lot like RA’s. How pointed it is and the nostril placement.

moo

Yes, it does, you're right.

 

[MistyWaters]

If the two sketches weren't created by eye witnesses, then where did they get the information?

An eye witness is a person who witnesses a crime (ie murder) taking place. We know nobody witnessed that because foul play wasn’t suspected the first evening the girls went missing. LE have never said who was responsible for either of the sketches, nor where that person was sighted.

 

[Trebor5591]

He placed himself at the scene around the time of the killings. He was seen and witnessed by 5 different people who will testify as such. Pseudo science of the shell casing ejection mark will probably not be used.

Remember, they only arrested him AFTER the search. So obviously, they got the gun for the ejection marks but I'm sure they got something else much bigger that they will use in court.

I feel confident they will have more than enough... but it will not go to trial once discovery is in place. Unless RA has convinced his family he is innocent and might risk a trial. Bad move on his part if he does.

This is just my opinion but was RW seen by 5 different people? Maybe he was, but I question if they will be able to testify they saw RW, base on what they said they saw per the PCA.

Here is what 3 of the five people saw per the PCA: "Interviews were conducted with 3 juveniles, and they advised they were on the Manon High Bridge on February:13'",2017.They advised they on the trail toward Freedom Bridge to go home when they encountered a male walking from Freedom Bridge toward the Manon High Bridge. They described the male as "kind of creepy" and advised he was wearing "like blue jeans a like really light blue jacket and he his hair was gray maybe a little brown and he did not really show his face."

So they say they didn't see his face. The other two people maybe saw him, but one said the man they saw was dressed all in black. So his outfit in this case really doesn't match up with what RA was wearing.

These identifications are maybe enough for a probable cause affidavit for a search warrant and an arrest, but wont be enough to get a conviction, in my opinion.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

The affidavit does not indicate how Libby German or Abby Williams were killed Feb. 13, 2017. Read the probable cause affidavit here.

www.indystar.com

 

[MAHBOOBOO]

Judge grants defense motion for closed-door hearings

The Delphi double homicide suspect will get closed-door hearings to discuss paying for his representation.

www.wlfi.com

"Richard Allen's attorneys want the hearings to argue for expenses to cover the cost of their investigation, including payment of expert witnesses."

Surely they are not considering some form of insanity / mental incapacity defense?

What other possible defense experts would they want to hide?

Would love to hear your ideas!

I hope the judge will severely limit any hearings that exclude the prosecution. It may be legal but seems like dirty pool to a layperson like me.

JMO

I expect they'll at least try to hire a ballistics expert in regard to the unfired round.

 

[WingsOverTX]

I expect they'll at least try to hire a ballistics expert in regard to the unfired round.

Yes, but no real need to hide that request from the prosecution.

It's the secrecy the defense wants that has my antenna up.

 

[pepper 34]

I personally think the person in the second sketch has a nose that looks a lot like RA’s. How pointed it is and the nostril placement.

moo

I think the eyes are very similar, too. IIRC, way, way back in the threads, there were a fair number of members who discussed this very issue and thought the "young BG" and the "old BG" sketches looked similar to each other and maybe even represented the same person.

 

[Fargo]

So... hmm. I wonder what's got them so concerned about top secrecy?

I don't find it particularly noteworthy. They are just asking for the same conditions a paying client would receive. If RA were a paying client they wouldn't have hearings at all about fees for experts, who those experts are, why they are necessary, etc. Neither the judge nor the prosecutor would know anything about it until trial.

In RA's case though his attorneys are asking the state to pay those fees and they have to justify those fees to the judge, sharing information they don't want the state to know. Basically, they are saying their client is at a disadvantage because he is indigent, giving the prosecution an unfair advantage and information they would not have if RA were a private client. I think the judge's ruling is appropriate. My opinions only.

 

[Boxer]

Judge grants defense motion for closed-door hearings

The Delphi double homicide suspect will get closed-door hearings to discuss paying for his representation.

www.wlfi.com

"Richard Allen's attorneys want the hearings to argue for expenses to cover the cost of their investigation, including payment of expert witnesses."

Surely they are not considering some form of insanity / mental incapacity defense?

What other possible defense experts would they want to hide?

Would love to hear your ideas!

I hope the judge will severely limit any hearings that exclude the prosecution. It may be legal but seems like dirty pool to a layperson like me.

JMO

They are going to try to counter the tool marks on the bullet casing.

 

[rypj84]

Can someone determine if RL's alibi lines up in any way with the PC for RA?

Speculation, curiosity and moo

 

[Ozoner]

DA has said they believe there is another involved, but RAs guilt can stand alone.

That strategy backfired for prosecutors in the Arpana Jinaga case. I firmly believe that prosecutors indicted the right man—if you can call him that—a low-life named Emanuel Fair. However, law enforcement could not completely clear the victim's neighbor, so they called that neighbor an uncharged accomplice.

That translated to reasonable doubt for the jury, and Fair walked. I don't doubt that he will claim another victim (if he hasn't already).

 

[Marzipan]

I think the eyes are very similar, too. IIRC, way, way back in the threads, there were a fair number of members who discussed this very issue and thought the "young BG" and the "old BG" sketches looked similar to each other and maybe even represented the same person.

I think people thought maybe father and son, which later meshed with the idea of the Klines, even though it’s hard to see KAK as YBG.
I see little resemblance between the two sketches. Old BG’s eyes are so wide set they are practically on the sides of his head. YBG’s eyes are close-set. RA’s eyes are like little beads right on either side of his nose. Those of us who believed we could slightly make out eyes in one frame of the BG video saw very close-set eyes.

 

[kkdj]

I noticed on there "animal hair samples". Does he have animals? animal hair on the girls?

I believe his wife worked at a vet. So animal hairs may have been on his clothing.
moo

 

[Boxer]

This is just my opinion but was RW seen by 5 different people? Maybe he was, but I question if they will be able to testify they saw RW, base on what they said they saw per the PCA.

Here is what 3 of the five people saw per the PCA: "Interviews were conducted with 3 juveniles, and they advised they were on the Manon High Bridge on February:13'",2017.They advised they on the trail toward Freedom Bridge to go home when they encountered a male walking from Freedom Bridge toward the Manon High Bridge. They described the male as "kind of creepy" and advised he was wearing "like blue jeans a like really light blue jacket and he his hair was gray maybe a little brown and he did not really show his face."

So they say they didn't see his face. The other two people maybe saw him, but one said the man they saw was dressed all in black. So his outfit in this case really doesn't match up with what RA was wearing.

These identifications are maybe enough for a probable cause affidavit for a search warrant and an arrest, but wont be enough to get a conviction, in my opinion.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

The affidavit does not indicate how Libby German or Abby Williams were killed Feb. 13, 2017. Read the probable cause affidavit here.

www.indystar.com

RA said he saw the 3 girls, the girls said he saw him, there is no question about this meeting on the trail.

RA said he went to MHB and stood on a platform. A witness said the saw RA on the platform.

Minutes later the witness passed A&L going to the bridge.

RA said he never saw the girls, and did not go back down the trail as many people were on trail and would have seen him.

A witness saw RA walking west on 300. He may have dodged many cars but apparently got stuck being seen by one passing car.

 

[Gemmie]

This is just my opinion but was RW seen by 5 different people? Maybe he was, but I question if they will be able to testify they saw RW, base on what they said they saw per the PCA.

SBMFF

Yes, if you meant RMA (I'm thinking that's who you meant when you asked about a RW? If not, who is RW?). 5 people said they saw RMA.

Persons 1-3 (juveniles):

Person #4 (woman walking the bridge):

Person #5 (Driving on 300N):

That makes 5. All in RMA's PCA.

Here's what we learned from the redacted court documents on why Richard Allen was arrested in the Delphi murders

The 12 pages of court documents include the decision to release a redacted version, murder charges and probable cause affidavit.

www.wthr.com

 

[MadMcGoo]

Mod Note:

Thank you to @JudgeJudi for bringing this video to our attention. This video is approved on a one-time basis as it provides a good visual guide for information provided in the PCA.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

They are going to try to counter the tool marks on the bullet casing.

Sure, that's almost guaranteed to be their first plan. It's all they have to go on. Once it gets past discovery and the prosecutor plays their full hand, I suspect it'll be a whole new ball game. After not charging anyone for the crime for over five and a half years, I suspect they have far more than a tight timeline (verified both ways) and tool marks on an unspent round.

 

[JudgeJudi]

No, I am not convinced in the slightest by the ejection marks on an unspent bullet.

The criminal defence attorney on Murder Sheet would agree with you.

AC = Aine Cain (co-host of Murder Sheet)
A: = Attorney (verified and speaking anonymously)

AC: And as far as courts go, when you’re practising criminal defence – I know it could probably depend on the location, are these kind of ejector marks – do you frequently see them brought up by a prosecution as some sort of evidence in a trial?
A: In 20 years of practice I have never seen it come up, ever. The toolmark examination reports regarding the markings that were left on a bullet that went through a barrel, I’ve seen that often. I’ve never seen ejector markings being an issue in a case, ever.

He adds a lot more in the paras. that follow.

 

[mrjitty]

The criminal defence attorney on Murder Sheet would agree with you.

AC = Aine Cain (co-host of Murder Sheet)
A: = Attorney (verified and speaking anonymously)

He adds a lot more in the paras. that follow.

I think he is correct that it has been used for the PCA (as the underlying assumptions are not challenged in this phase), and this then avoids having to disclose other forensics which might not have been ready for prime time.

We'll find out if that is correct at the prelim, where the prosecution will have to outline its complete theory of the case

 

[MissUnderstood]

Maybe not but it's just something I think any half decent defense attorney is going to bring up.

I always thought the first sketch that came out was done from the video and the second from eye witness. Maybe the eye witness sketch was put on hold once video was found. Moo