IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

[sunshineray]

His atty stated he delivered almost 1,000 pgs of police reports to RA that had not been handed over to him. Surely an attorney would want his clients input on some of that information.

It sounds like it's a huge case; prosecution has had a ton of that info for years. Is it normal to not seek a client's input?

I'm confused. Is it LE or an accused attorneys that are responsible for giving discovery to their client to look over? Is it the corrections officials that aren't handing over discovery that the attorneys have dropped off? If the attorneys are dropping papers off I can see no reason not to give them too RA personally, from their hands to his. If they dropped off disks...maybe...if RA were under suicide watch, corrections wouldn't allow those because they can be used to injure himself?

 

[O.Incandenza]

I'm confused. Is it LE or an accused attorneys that are responsible for giving discovery to their client to look over? Is it the corrections officials that aren't handing over discovery that the attorneys have dropped off? If the attorneys are dropping papers off I can see no reason not to give them too RA personally, from their hands to his. If they dropped off disks...maybe...if RA were under suicide watch, corrections wouldn't allow those because they can be used to injure himself?

Prison officials aren't going to let attorneys just bring in boxes of documents and give them to the defendant. They will want to inspect everything first for contraband, etc. So I imagine the attorneys have to hand the boxes over and then trust that prison officials will give them to RA once they've been inspected.

 

[sunshineray]

Prison officials aren't going to let attorneys just bring in boxes of documents and give them to the defendant. They will want to inspect everything first for contraband, etc. So I imagine the attorneys have to hand the boxes over and then trust that prison officials will give them to RA once they've been inspected.

I doubt though that RA will even want to read everything turned over in discovery or produced by the defense "team". It's his attorney's job to find, in ALL that volume, the defense's meat and potatoes and then serve it up in reports to their client. RA can then review and see if it needs his input and/or tweaking. That's what I'd think anyway. Can't take that long for prison officials to look through weekly or bi-weekly reports?

 

[FrostedGlass]

I doubt though that RA will even want to read everything turned over in discovery or produced by the defense "team". It's his attorney's job to find, in ALL that volume, the defense's meat and potatoes and then serve it up in reports to their client. RA can then review and see if it needs his input and/or tweaking. That's what I'd think anyway. Can't take that long for prison officials to look through weekly or bi-weekly reports?

I think it depends on his state of mind. If he's just depressed, he might welcome having something to do. OTOH, if he's being medicated, which it sounds like he might be, then you're probably right.

There's still no action on the emergency motion.

 

[TL4S]

There's still no action on the emergency motion.

Maybe for safety concerns, everything might be kept sealed until he's been transported (if he is moved, that is). Kind of like how we didn't see anything on mycase when KAK was temporary taken into ISP custody, until after the fact.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Maybe for safety concerns, everything might be kept sealed until he's been transported (if he is moved, that is). Kind of like how we didn't see anything on mycase when KAK was temporary taken into ISP custody, until after the fact.

That's a strong possibility; we wouldn't have known about any of this if someone hadn't messed up.

Did you get a chance to listen to the MS podcast? The man MS interviewed said he thought RA for sure would be a marked man in prison. In his opinion, Westville is the safest prison in IN.

So is that how it goes... put a man in solitary confinement for his safety until he goes mental, then drug him up to the point of ?. I guess that makes me (almost) convinced that he's guilty because surely they would not do that to a man if they couldn't prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. (Would they?)

 

[TL4S]

That's a strong possibility; we wouldn't have known about any of this if someone hadn't messed up.

Did you get a chance to listen to the MS podcast? The man MS interviewed said he thought RA for sure would be a marked man in prison. In his opinion, Westville is the safest prison in IN.

So is that how it goes... put a man in solitary confinement for his safety until he goes mental, then drug him up to the point of ?. I guess that makes me (almost) convinced that he's guilty because surely they would not do that to a man if they couldn't prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. (Would they?)

I did listen to MS and found it quite informative. Their guest, who was a resident at Westville at one time, seemed to think RA was likely on suicide watch, and was there for his safety. Personally, I find this very believable. As has been pointed out on this thread, though, the defense is not pushing for a quicker bond hearing. I'm not comfortable guessing on the reasons for that, or whether or not there is meaning behind it. I wouldn't know.

I have known people who served time in prison and how the MS's guest described it is pretty much on par with their stories. Add to the general conditions a current staffing shortage crisis, and it's pretty scary.

 

[Justice101]

That's a strong possibility; we wouldn't have known about any of this if someone hadn't messed up.

Did you get a chance to listen to the MS podcast? The man MS interviewed said he thought RA for sure would be a marked man in prison. In his opinion, Westville is the safest prison in IN.

So is that how it goes... put a man in solitary confinement for his safety until he goes mental, then drug him up to the point of ?. I guess that makes me (almost) convinced that he's guilty because surely they would not do that to a man if they couldn't prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. (Would they?)

LE, Confinement and the Prosecution are 3 entirely different bodies

 

[FrostedGlass]

LE, Confinement and the Prosecution are 3 entirely different bodies

That's correct but I tend to think they all work together as one. LE brought evidence to the prosecutor, the prosecutor took that info to the judge for the arrest. LE and the judge got scared and RA ended up in solitary for his own protection.

Who made the call to move him to and from White Co jail?

 

[MistyWaters]

That's correct but I tend to think they all work together as one. LE brought evidence to the prosecutor, the prosecutor took that info to the judge for the arrest. LE and the judge got scared and RA ended up in solitary for his own protection.

Who made the call to move him to and from White Co jail?

Had he not been moved instead we’d likely be reading a motion containing a long list of complaints about the pitiful and “prisoner of war-like” facilities at White County Jail. It’s quite possible he was only placed there temporarily after his arrest, while space in an Indiana prison was being sought for his protection and safety.

I suspect much of what they did write about Westville was grossly exaggerated, but nobody’s going to jump up and argue the motion in the media, plus one can hardly expect the defence team of a man accused of double murder to be impartial. JMO

Jail space comes up short for state requirements

MONTICELLO — The White County Jail lacks the space for required programs from the State according to Sheriff Bill Brooks. The jail, built in 1998, wasn’t built with mental health

www.newsbug.info

 

[FrostedGlass]

Had he not been moved instead we’d likely be reading a motion containing a long list of complaints about the pitiful and “prisoner of war-like” facilities at White County Jail. It’s quite possible he was only placed there temporarily after his arrest, while space in an Indiana prison was being sought for his protection and safety.

I suspect much of what they did write about Westville was grossly exaggerated, but nobody’s going to jump up and argue the motion in the media, plus one can hardly expect the defence team of a man accused of double murder to be impartial. JMO

Jail space comes up short for state requirements

MONTICELLO — The White County Jail lacks the space for required programs from the State according to Sheriff Bill Brooks. The jail, built in 1998, wasn’t built with mental health

www.newsbug.info

No doubt many of them don't have ideal conditions. I totally disagree with you that what they wrote about Westville is grossly exaggerated. I'm pretty sure that if any one of us had a loved one living in solitary confinement, before or after conviction, we all would be highly distraught.

 

[MistyWaters]

No doubt many of them don't have ideal conditions. I totally disagree with you that what they wrote about Westville is grossly exaggerated. I'm pretty sure that if any one of us had a loved one living in solitary confinement, before or after conviction, we all would be highly distraught.

Well just to say I wouldn’t consider the sole source of the information contained within the motion - ie defence attorneys - to be at all the same as loved ones. Their role is for their client be viewed in a sympathetic light and be found not guilty IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Well just to say I wouldn’t consider the sole source of the information contained within the motion - ie defence attorneys - to be at all the same as loved ones. Their role is for their client be viewed in a sympathetic light and be found not guilty IMO.

I wouldn't consider that the sole source of info, either. Murder Sheet did an interview with an ex-inmate who spent some years in Westville and spent months in solitary confinement. He pretty much confirmed what RA's atty was stating.

I don't believe the motion was for sympathy since it likely was never meant for public viewing.

 

[girlhasnoname]

That's a strong possibility; we wouldn't have known about any of this if someone hadn't messed up.

Did you get a chance to listen to the MS podcast? The man MS interviewed said he thought RA for sure would be a marked man in prison. In his opinion, Westville is the safest prison in IN.

So is that how it goes... put a man in solitary confinement for his safety until he goes mental, then drug him up to the point of ?. I guess that makes me (almost) convinced that he's guilty because surely they would not do that to a man if they couldn't prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. (Would they?)

I will say again it's a double-edged sword. For sure he is a highly marked man, inmates hate accused child killers. He would not be safe in gen pop IMO.

Lots of segregated defendants awaiting trial are held 23 hours in cell and 1 hour for recreation etc. It's not the most humane thing, but I do believe it is in an effort to protect them.

As far as RA going 'mental', it's not a good environment for anyone, nobody is going to flourish in jail awaiting trial for the grisly murders of 2 young girls. He knows what he has done, IMO, and being alone with his thoughts and knowing he could be facing the DP would surely make him stressed/despressed and maybe even suicidal.

What does LE do? Again, double-edged sword.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

That's correct but I tend to think they all work together as one. LE brought evidence to the prosecutor, the prosecutor took that info to the judge for the arrest. LE and the judge got scared and RA ended up in solitary for his own protection.

Who made the call to move him to and from White Co jail?

RA asked to be moved originally. Just like he denied a Public Defender stating he would seek his own counsel, thereby delaying the whole process from the very start.

I'm all for humane treatment of all prisoners (defendants and inmates) I just don't see where RA is being purposely denied and more or less of his rights.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

I will say again it's a double-edged sword. For sure he is a highly marked man, inmates hate accused child killers. He would not be safe in gen pop IMO.

Lots of segregated defendants awaiting trial are held 23 hours in cell and 1 hour for recreation etc. It's not the most humane thing, but I do believe it is in an effort to protect them.

As far as RA going 'mental', it's not a good environment for anyone, nobody is going to flourish in jail awaiting trial for the grisly murders of 2 young girls. He knows what he has done, IMO, and being alone with his thoughts and knowing he could be facing the DP would surely make him stressed/despressed and maybe even suicidal.

What does LE do? Again, double-edged sword.

MOO

Approximately 2 months prior to the filing of this Petition, Attorney Rozzi was able to secure a more traditional bed space in the Cass County Jail, a newly erected modern jail facility with the most advanced security measures. They should let him go there.

I've never seen stats for holding defendants in isolation while waiting to go to trial unless they are in for bad behavior. Placing RA in Westville for his safety seems to be a very rare or unheard-of occurrence.

I keep seeing this repeated: "RA asked to be moved originally." There's no proof of that in any of the motions. I've posted the motion from MyCase; it was not RA's motion. But... even if he did request it, what has that got to do with the transfer request?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

It’s been a week since this “emergency motion” was filed.
Nothing has happened.
The judge hasn’t issued any statement expressing outrage and ordering an immediate transfer along with other things complained about.
In fact the defense attorneys who filed this motion haven’t been jumping up and down demanding action either.
Despite thoughts that this motion wasn’t meant for public eyes I think the inaction by RA’s lawyers since filing it shows it was only for the public’s eyes. The wild bordering on irresponsible rhetoric of the motion certainly got everybody talking didn’t it. It deflected talk about RA’s possible guilt to poor ole RA.
I want RA moved. I want any mental health issues addressed for him. I don’t want anything getting in the way of RA getting a fair trial, but a week out after reading all the horrible things mentioned in this motion deemed an “emergency”, the judge has not found it upon herself to act on any of it. Add to that, that RA’s lawyers seem to have returned to business as usual and, in my opinion, we’ve all been played. Straight out of the Harpootlian defense attorney playbook.(see Murdaugh trial)
I would implore Judge Gull to please move RA and see he gets some mental health evaluation so we can get back to the task at hand.

 

[FrostedGlass]

It's probably going to be kept secret.

04/14/2023	Petition Filed Verified Request to Prohibit Public Access to a Court Record filed by State of Indiana. Filed By: State of Indiana File Stamp: 04/14/2023
04/14/2023	Response Filed State of Indiana files Response to Defense's Emergency Motion to Modify Safekeeping Order. Filed By: State of Indiana File Stamp: 04/14/2023

 

[TL4S]

Judge says Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen can be moved to new facility

From Gull’s order:

“Consistent with that Order and the ‘safe keeper statute,’ the Department of Correction is authorized to move the Defendant within the Department of Correction to accommodate his medical and physical needs pursuant to medical directives by the Department of Correction physicians, psychiatrists, or psychologists.”

 

[steeltowngirl]

Judge says Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen can be moved to new facility

From Gull’s order:

Glad he’s being moved to another facility, although the article says the judge didn’t specify where he would go. IIRC, his defense was asking for a move to Cass County Jail, which is better equipped to accommodate his medical and physical needs. Presumably, if he goes there, conditions will be better.

I remain unconvinced that his weight loss is due to conditions at Westville. He may be starving himself. Guess we will see what happens after he is moved.

jmo