IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #163

[MistyWaters]

Judge says Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen can be moved to new facility

From Gull’s order:

“Consistent with that Order and the ‘safe keeper statute,’ the Department of Correction is authorized to move the Defendant within the Department of Correction to accommodate his medical and physical needs pursuant to medical directives by the Department of Correction physicians, psychiatrists, or psychologists.”

So if I’m understanding this correctly a move “within the Department of Correction” limits any move to other State prisons only as guided by the “safe keeper statute”, not a county jail as was the defense request.

Furthermore any move would only take place upon “medical directives by State physicians, psychiatrists or phycologists“, essentially supported by a professional opinion instead of merely based on a defence team request.

If so, I think that’s a very fair decision, defence lawyers surely know rulings do not always go there way. JMO

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

It’s been a hot minute since I’ve been here, so hello all.
I wanted to get on here to say that my uncle has been in and out of prison, his whole life and the weight loss situation that people are talking about regarding has nothing to do with not eating. Every time my uncle has gotten out of the jail/prison system. He has always lost a considerable amount of weigh even though he has always had a lot $$$ in his commissary. I don’t know how much RA has on his commissary or if he even has it but regardless, he will still lose weight.

ymmv JMVHAspieO

(Also on a sidenote, my uncle is about the size of RA and has only been in solitary (the hole) once which is saying a lot, considering for over half of his life here and there he has been incarcerated and the fact that he has a short temper.)

 

[FrostedGlass]

IDOC facilities

IDOC Facility Locations

www.in.gov

 

[TL4S]

What I'm unsure about, in regards to the judge's order, is whether or not RA will be given any kind of medical/psychological evaluation. An evaluation doesn't appear to be part of her order, nor requested in the attorney's initial motion. So RA's "allowed" to be moved within the IDOC if the IDOC medical personnel deem it necessary, but there's no wording that I'm seeing to actually order such an evaluation be done. JMO. Am I misunderstanding things?

 

[FrostedGlass]

The order:

04/14/2023

Order Issued On November 3, 2022, the Judge of the Carroll Circuit Court, at the request of the Carroll County Sheriff, entered the following order: "Accordingly, pursuant to Ind. Code 35-33-11-1, the Court ORDERS the Sheriff of Carroll County to transfer Defendant to a facility of the department of correction designated by the commissioner of the department as suitable for the confinement of Defendant and provided that space is available." These types of orders are referred to as "safe keeper" ordered. The Department of Correction has complied with this order. Consistent with that Order and the "safe keeper" statute, the Department of Correction is authorized to move the Defendant within the Department of Correction to accommodate his medical and physical needs pursuant to medical directives by the Department of Correction physicians, psychiatrists or psychologists Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 04/14/2023

 

[FrostedGlass]

What I'm unsure about, in regards to the judge's order, is whether or not RA will be given any kind of medical/psychological evaluation. An evaluation doesn't appear to be part of her order, nor requested in the attorney's initial motion. So RA's "allowed" to be moved within the IDOC if the IDOC medical personnel deem it necessary, but there's no wording that I'm seeing to actually order such an evaluation be done. JMO. Am I misunderstanding things?

When a man is sentenced to prison(with the exception of DP cases), he goes to Reception Diagnostic Center in Plainfield. There, he's evaluated as to which one of the prisons he should be sent to. Apparently RA bypassed this step; maybe he'll be sent there now.

 

[TL4S]

When a man is sentenced to prison(with the exception of DP cases), he goes to Reception Diagnostic Center in Plainfield. There, he's evaluated as to which one of the prisons he should be sent to. Apparently RA bypassed this step; maybe he'll be sent there now.

Good point. Except RA has not been sentenced to prison (because he hasn't been tried yet). But since he is in prison, if he bypassed that step, was an evaluation ever done? His attorney's statement only says it was "presumed" to have been done. There's a lot we don't know here, IMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Good point. And if he did bypass that step, was an evaluation ever done? The attorney's statement only says it was "presumed" to be done. There's a lot we don't know here.

Didn't that guy MS interviewed say all inmates were evaluated at intake? If that's the case, one would assume RA was; he looked drugged in that last picture, IMO.

 

[TL4S]

Didn't that guy MS interviewed say all inmates were evaluated at intake? If that's the case, one would assume RA was; he looked drugged in that last picture, IMO.

Within the first seven days, NMcL filed a probable cause, the judge agreed, RA was arrested and charged, NMcL motioned to have the case sealed, the judge ordered so, the Carroll County Sheriff filed for a "safekeeping" motion, the judge allowed, and then the judge requested to be recused, which was granted. During that time, RA did not have counsel (and wouldn't request for counsel for another week), and he was transported secretly to a then unknown location.

He would normally be in a county jail, but was moved hastily for his own safety, so I'm not convinced that he ever went to the Reception Diagnostic Center, as would be standard for someone who had been sentenced to prison. It's been bothering me a lot that RA's attorney only said it was "presumed" he was evaluated and medicated. Doesn't the attorney know this for fact? Could RA have been evaluated at Westville? I wouldn't doubt at all if RA was drugged in that photo, regardless of if he was ever evaluated.

It concerns me how he ended up in that facility due to unusual circumstances that we don't know what protocol, if any, there is for it. I feel like the defense, whether or not that document was meant for the public, was laying out a potentially problematic matter with the way the court and the IDOC perhaps handled the situation in that first week (resulting in the outcome they address in the document). IDK. I'm not super knowledgeable in these things, so perhaps I'm making something out of nothing.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Approximately 2 months prior to the filing of this Petition, Attorney Rozzi was able to secure a more traditional bed space in the Cass County Jail, a newly erected modern jail facility with the most advanced security measures. They should let him go there.

I've never seen stats for holding defendants in isolation while waiting to go to trial unless they are in for bad behavior. Placing RA in Westville for his safety seems to be a very rare or unheard-of occurrence.

I keep seeing this repeated: "RA asked to be moved originally." There's no proof of that in any of the motions. I've posted the motion from MyCase; it was not RA's motion. But... even if he did request it, what has that got to do with the transfer request?

This defendant does not deserve any more or less special treatment than any other defendant. Period. I don't care where he is housed, I don't care about him personally. He is charged with a heinous crime, the most heinous type IMO, and he needs to suck it up and put his big boy pants on. My sympathy lies with Abby & Libby.

He isn't on vacation, he's being held charged with 2 counts of 1st degree murder with special circumstances. Like I've said repeatedly, he's not going going to flourish knowing what he's done and what he's facing.

ALL IMO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

This defendant does not deserve any more or less special treatment than any other defendant. Period. I don't care where he is housed, I don't care about him personally.

Exactly, this defendant (awaiting trial) should get the same treatment as most other defendants (since there will always be some exceptions) that are being held by that county.
That means not being put in solitary confinement in a prison. To me, it also means that he has the same access to his attorney as all county-housed defendants, to ensure a fair trial that limits cause for appeals, after he is hopefully found guilty.
I don't think if he is moved he will get any "special" treatment, he'll get the same living conditions as the other defendants.
"I don't care about him personally", I sure hope you don't think I implied that I do by expressing my opinions.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hoosier Public Defender chimed in; I wonder why he thinks Miami?

Hoosier Public Defender@publicdefender_
Apr 14
Court throwing the ball back to DOC reminding them it’s ok to move him elsewhere. Best of both worlds: #RichardAllen moved but remains w/ DOC. Anyones guess what the DOC does. Relocate him to Miami Correctional Facility?

Hoosier Public Defender@publicdefender_
Apr 14
The Court has issued its Order RE #RichardAllen’s motion to modify safekeeping order. Essentially reminds the DOC of their ability to place Allen in a suitable location. For what it’s worth, Allen is entitled to a post transfer hearing

https://twitter.com/publicdefender_?lang=en

 

[FrostedGlass]

Indy Star is always a place to go for info; this is from 2 years ago

Inmates say they are kept in constant darkness at Miami Correctional Facility​

Overhead light fixtures in the unit don't function, the complaints allege, and broken windows are covered with metal plates in lieu of being repaired.
...
The constant darkness inmates experienced for weeks or months brought severe emotional and physical distress, lawyers allege. Plaintiffs are requesting the court award them damages and attorneys fees.

"Placing a person in prolonged, isolated darkness for an extended period is a form of torture," reads a line repeated in all nine complaints. Inmates kept in these conditions are withheld from the "minimal civilized measures of life’s necessities," the complaints allege.

Inmates say they are kept in constant darkness at Miami Correctional Facility

The prisoners allege their constitutional rights were violated when staff confined them to dark prison cells for weeks on end.

www.indystar.com

 

[Gemmie]

Indy Star is always a place to go for info; this is from 2 years ago

Inmates say they are kept in constant darkness at Miami Correctional Facility​

Overhead light fixtures in the unit don't function, the complaints allege, and broken windows are covered with metal plates in lieu of being repaired.
...
The constant darkness inmates experienced for weeks or months brought severe emotional and physical distress, lawyers allege. Plaintiffs are requesting the court award them damages and attorneys fees.

"Placing a person in prolonged, isolated darkness for an extended period is a form of torture," reads a line repeated in all nine complaints. Inmates kept in these conditions are withheld from the "minimal civilized measures of life’s necessities," the complaints allege.

Inmates say they are kept in constant darkness at Miami Correctional Facility

The prisoners allege their constitutional rights were violated when staff confined them to dark prison cells for weeks on end.

www.indystar.com

This woman would disagree that being in darkness for an extended period is a form of torture. She spent 500 days alone in a cave 230' below ground and didn't want to come back up. I'm sure the prisoners have some light and aren't plunged in total darkness. This is what the woman had (not a whole lot):

MSN

 

[MistyWaters]

Indy Star is always a place to go for info; this is from 2 years ago

Inmates say they are kept in constant darkness at Miami Correctional Facility​

Overhead light fixtures in the unit don't function, the complaints allege, and broken windows are covered with metal plates in lieu of being repaired.
...
The constant darkness inmates experienced for weeks or months brought severe emotional and physical distress, lawyers allege. Plaintiffs are requesting the court award them damages and attorneys fees.

"Placing a person in prolonged, isolated darkness for an extended period is a form of torture," reads a line repeated in all nine complaints. Inmates kept in these conditions are withheld from the "minimal civilized measures of life’s necessities," the complaints allege.

Inmates say they are kept in constant darkness at Miami Correctional Facility

The prisoners allege their constitutional rights were violated when staff confined them to dark prison cells for weeks on end.

www.indystar.com

Isn’t the state prison in Miami County where KAK was/is housed? I wonder had his attorney complained of mistreatment how sympathic the public would’ve been toward that? But I can imagine it fitting into a wild conspiracy, a vindictive state plot to pressure him to admit to something or other connecting with Delphi.

Seems to me we can imagine pretty much anything about situations we know little or nothing about.

 

[Falling Down]

Not sure if they could send him to RDC, he hasn't been convincted of anything.

 

[twall]

Isn’t the state prison in Miami County where KAK was/is housed? I wonder had his attorney complained of mistreatment how sympathic the public would’ve been toward that? But I can imagine it fitting into a wild conspiracy, a vindictive state plot to pressure him to admit to something or other connecting with Delphi.

Seems to me we can imagine pretty much anything about situations we know little or nothing about.

Miami Correctional Facility is in Bunker Hill, Miami County, Indiana which is a state run facility. KAK is being held in the Miami County jail in the city of Peru until his sentencing. Depending on how much time he gets he may stay there to serve it or move to a state facility. JMO

 

[WingsOverTX]

Indy Star is always a place to go for info; this is from 2 years ago

Inmates say they are kept in constant darkness at Miami Correctional Facility​

Overhead light fixtures in the unit don't function, the complaints allege, and broken windows are covered with metal plates in lieu of being repaired.
...
The constant darkness inmates experienced for weeks or months brought severe emotional and physical distress, lawyers allege. Plaintiffs are requesting the court award them damages and attorneys fees.

"Placing a person in prolonged, isolated darkness for an extended period is a form of torture," reads a line repeated in all nine complaints. Inmates kept in these conditions are withheld from the "minimal civilized measures of life’s necessities," the complaints allege.

Inmates say they are kept in constant darkness at Miami Correctional Facility

The prisoners allege their constitutional rights were violated when staff confined them to dark prison cells for weeks on end.

www.indystar.com

Interesting. I can't find any follow up articles. Curious if anything changed.

 

[WingsOverTX]

This woman would disagree that being in darkness for an extended period is a form of torture. She spent 500 days alone in a cave 230' below ground and didn't want to come back up. I'm sure the prisoners have some light and aren't plunged in total darkness. This is what the woman had (not a whole lot):

View attachment 414980

MSN

I'm gonna have to assign her to the outlier position on the darkness = happiness Bell Curve!

It would definitely be torture for me!

As to RA, he better hope his complaints don't land him in a facility he dislikes even more. OTOH....that might be the best outcome.

I agree with others who say this was designed by his lawyers for public consumption. But something prompted the judge to agree to allow a move. Hmmm.....maybe he really is cracking up?

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

This defendant does not deserve any more or less special treatment than any other defendant. Period. I don't care where he is housed, I don't care about him personally. He is charged with a heinous crime, the most heinous type IMO, and he needs to suck it up and put his big boy pants on. My sympathy lies with Abby & Libby.

He isn't on vacation, he's being held charged with 2 counts of 1st degree murder with special circumstances. Like I've said repeatedly, he's not going going to flourish knowing what he's done and what he's facing.

ALL IMO

None of us care about him personally but some of us do care about the rights of a person who has not been found guilty. In fact, it goes beyond that to the rights of those who have been unjustly accused, found guilty, served many years and then were exonerated.