IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[CGBSpender]

Maybe some day we’ll get answers? Was the “one piece“ a gun matching the bullet or was it something else? And I don’t think it’s still clear why the difficulty getting to where the bodies were found indicated the killer was local.

I looked at the difficulty as one piece of it...the other part being that the killer likely selected the location because it was somewhere they felt comfortable.

JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Maybe some day we’ll get answers? Was the “one piece“ a gun matching the bullet or was it something else? And I don’t think it’s still clear why the difficulty getting to where the bodies were found indicated the killer was local.

County Sheriff answers double homicide questions from readers - Carroll County Comet

It was announced there would be no press conference on the fourth anniversary of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail William, the two middle school students who went for a hike on the Monon High Bridge Trail in 2017 and did not return alive. Questions about the case from both the local...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Q. The public has heard for four years, the investigation “is one puzzle piece from being solved.” What is that one piece specifically? Is it a name? Is it Jon Doe told me he killed the kids? Or, are you looking for confirmation of what you know- Jon Doe was not at work, he has a blue jacket, he cut his hair on Feb 14 or I saw a guy with a bloody jacket at 4 p.m. on Feb 13 at the gas station? You are not giving the public a lot to work with yet no arrests in four years. Aren’t you worried about more victims? Is the suspect dead or incarcerated so that is why no press conference or additional information is being released?

A. The person specifically responsible for Abby and Libby’s death. Our team of trained, experienced, and professional investigators will know that “one piece” when they see it.

……..

Q. There are many residents of the county that have never been on the trails, describe the terrain of where the girls were found? What is the most direct route out of the area they were found? How long of a walk from where they entered to where they were found?

A. Very similar to one of the state’s parks. A lot of hills, brush, trees, etc. Directly south of the Morning Heights Cemetery but on private property. I do not recall the specific distance.

Q. Describe the area where you believe “down the hill” was said?

A. South end of the High Bridge.

Q. Ron Logan has stated on news programs the only way to get to the site is over difficult terrain and private property. Given the difficulty getting to where the bodies were found, many believe the killer(s) were familiar with the area. Do you as a law enforcement officer believe that as well?

A. Very much so. It is part of the reason why we continually feel it is a “local” or someone who was very familiar with the area.

I remember this statement by LE and chuckled at the time because, to me, it read like they were needing “one piece” of a one piece puzzle. In other words, LE needed someone to tell them who the killer was. Which was actually true.
Later, and I cannot remember the who, how, or where from the myriad of things put out in this case, but some LE guy clarified that statement a little by saying that LE had a lot of evidence, and that evidence pointed to one person, but they did not know who that person was. Once LE had a name, as they checked him out, he should fit seamlessly in with the evidence they had.
Sounds like that might be what happened with RA.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Possibly the ‘one tip’ that LE thought they needed was someone (family member or friend) to come forward and identify the killer - tying the evidence to an identity. Sadly, many names and side-by-side photos were called in or posted on social media over the years. I wish we knew exactly when LE tied RA to BG. Did they finally get that tip? Or did they really just stumble upon him by going through old case notes?

We are one tip away from success," Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter told "Good Morning America" in an interview airing Wednesday.

Authorities have not released information about how the girls died, but Carter said he believes the killer is hiding within the close-knit Delphi community. He said someone knows who the killer is but is afraid to come forward.

"If somebody knows something, they need to tell us. I think they're afraid too," he said. "Somebody knows who that person is."

"Somebody that commits a horrific crime like this against two little girls probably has shown signs of violence in the past … he didn't just all of a sudden decide to do this one day," Carter said.

He said it could be a family member, friend or some other person "that knows something happened after that day" and noticed a change in the suspect.

Witness in Delphi double murder likely afraid to come forward, investigator says

Abby Williams and Libby German vanished after going hiking at Delphi Historic Trails in Indiana Feb. 13, 2017.

www.goodmorningamerica.com

 

[CGBSpender]

Authorities have not released information about how the girls died, but Carter said he believes the killer is hiding within the close-knit Delphi community. He said someone knows who the killer is but is afraid to come forward.

"If somebody knows something, they need to tell us. I think they're afraid too," he said. "Somebody knows who that person is."

"Somebody that commits a horrific crime like this against two little girls probably has shown signs of violence in the past … he didn't just all of a sudden decide to do this one day," Carter said.

He said it could be a family member, friend or some other person "that knows something happened after that day" and noticed a change in the suspect.

Looking back at this in conjunction with the individual currently charged is puzzling. Granted we don't know much, but nothing seemed to change for that individual...same job, same home...no one has come out and said the individual was suspicious to them. The individual doesn't strike me as someone that others would "fear" turning in based on the information known at this time.

JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Looking back at this in conjunction with the individual currently charged is puzzling. Granted we don't know much, but nothing seemed to change for that individual...same job, same home...no one has come out and said the individual was suspicious to them. The individual doesn't strike me as someone that others would "fear" turning in based on the information known at this time.

JMO

Fear could be felt for a variety of reasons. Fear of losing a loved one to prison. Fear of loss of income and support. Fear of retaliation by the community. Fear of humiliation. And not just fear - denial. Fear of suspecting, but without actual proof, a friend or family member would question themselves over and over. What if they were wrong? Doubt would win over, and they might stay quiet and do nothing.

jmo

 

[CGBSpender]

Fear could be felt for a variety of reasons. Fear of losing a loved one to prison. Fear of loss of income and support. Fear of retaliation by the community. Fear of humiliation. And not just fear - denial. Fear of suspecting, but without actual proof, a friend or family member would question themselves over and over. What if they were wrong? Doubt would win over, and they might stay quiet and do nothing.

jmo

I guess I was thinking more fear of physical harm, because in one of the early press conferences LE said something like, "we can protect you".

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Next week Zone 7 sits down with Barbara MacDonald! You don’t want to miss the chance to hear from this renowned investigative journalist who spent 6 weeks boots on the ground in Delphi! Here is just a hint of her intellect, and humanitarianism: “I want him to get a fair trial. Because if he gets a fair trial Abby and Libby get a fair trial”! The brilliant
@NewsyBarbara is squarely in my Zone 7. #Delphi #AbbyandLibby #Zone7 #ColdCase #podcast

https://twitter.com/x/status/1692532910069309887

https://twitter.com/149Zone7

 

[steeltowngirl]

Starting at 3:30 in this 2021 interview, right after Abbott talks about the signatures at the crime scene, Ives says that releasing more information might trigger someone to come forward. What information would have “rang a bell” and had someone put the pieces together and identify BG?

Delphi Murders: Deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German remain unsolved 4 years later

DELPHI, Ind. – Four years ago, someone brutally murdered Abby Williams and Libby German. Despite cell phone video, an audio clip and 42,000 tips, no one has been arrested. “Carroll County is …

cbs4indy.com

 

[steeltowngirl]

I guess I was thinking more fear of physical harm, because in one of the early press conferences LE said something like, "we can protect you".

JMO

I do kind of recall that. I know Carter and Abbott stated in interviews that they believed someone knew something, but were afraid to come forward.

Also Callahan Walsh, who does specifically says “fear of this person”. That does indicate more than emotional fear.

Callahan hopes that although the case has been highly publicized, the new episode will serve as a reminder to the public.

“I think it's just a matter of time. I think somebody will come forward… I believe somebody who knows who this individual is but possibly is holding back that information out of fear of this person. And so I think time weighs heavy on your conscience,” Callahan said.

"I think continue telling the story, keep hammering the public over the head with Abby and Libby's story, keep it alive. And I think somebody will make that right decision. They'll saddle up, they'll come forward and give us the information that we need.”

Killer in Delphi Murders 'Knew Area Well' Ahead of Abductions, Callahan Walsh Says After Examining Case

The girls were murdered three years ago last month, and no one has been charged in the case.

www.insideedition.com

 

[FromGermany1]

Starting at 3:30 in this 2021 interview, right after Abbott talks about the signatures at the crime scene, Ives says that releasing more information might trigger someone to come forward. What information would have “rang a bell” and had someone put the pieces together and identify BG?

Delphi Murders: Deaths of Abby Williams and Libby German remain unsolved 4 years later

DELPHI, Ind. – Four years ago, someone brutally murdered Abby Williams and Libby German. Despite cell phone video, an audio clip and 42,000 tips, no one has been arrested. “Carroll County is …

cbs4indy.com

They can't disclose the crime scene signatures, but I think, they would have been helpful. Something with a connection to CVS perhaps?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I do kind of recall that. I know Carter and Abbott stated in interviews that they believed someone knew something, but were afraid to come forward.

Also Callahan Walsh, who does specifically says “fear of this person”. That does indicate more than emotional fear.

Callahan hopes that although the case has been highly publicized, the new episode will serve as a reminder to the public.

“I think it's just a matter of time. I think somebody will come forward… I believe somebody who knows who this individual is but possibly is holding back that information out of fear of this person. And so I think time weighs heavy on your conscience,” Callahan said.

"I think continue telling the story, keep hammering the public over the head with Abby and Libby's story, keep it alive. And I think somebody will make that right decision. They'll saddle up, they'll come forward and give us the information that we need.”

Killer in Delphi Murders 'Knew Area Well' Ahead of Abductions, Callahan Walsh Says After Examining Case

The girls were murdered three years ago last month, and no one has been charged in the case.

www.insideedition.com

Maybe the wife?

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe the wife?

I think Carter was just going with “somebody knows something” because it is known to often be true but here there’s no indication it was stated as a fact of this case or was covertly directed toward Mrs Allen. In fact that’s impossible as RA was not a suspect back then and until the misplaced interview was located it‘s consistently been stated the identity of the suspect was the missing piece of the puzzle.

 

[arielilane]

Next week Zone 7 sits down with Barbara MacDonald! You don’t want to miss the chance to hear from this renowned investigative journalist who spent 6 weeks boots on the ground in Delphi! Here is just a hint of her intellect, and humanitarianism: “I want him to get a fair trial. Because if he gets a fair trial Abby and Libby get a fair trial”! The brilliant
@NewsyBarbara is squarely in my Zone 7. #Delphi #AbbyandLibby #Zone7 #ColdCase #podcast

https://twitter.com/x/status/1692532910069309887

https://twitter.com/149Zone7

It's available now. It's available on Apple podcast too.

New Episode: I talk with guest Barbara MacDonald who spent time in Delphi boots on the ground!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694326539523903951

 

[Justice101]

I think Carter was just going with “somebody knows something” because it is known to often be true but here there’s no indication it was stated as a fact of this case or was covertly directed toward Mrs Allen. In fact that’s impossible as RA was not a suspect back then and until the misplaced interview was located it‘s consistently been stated the identity of the suspect was the missing piece of the puzzle.

I agree that they had a lot of evidence (chambered bullet, 5 eyewitness reports (3 young people, 1 woman on the walk returning from the bridge and 1 person seeing the muddy and bloody man, video of the perpetrator and his voice.

That is A LOT of evidence to have before an arrest.

Like you all said, they just needed a new name other than just random 'this guy is creepy and could have done it"... needed someone saying something like they "saw John Doe getting out of his car with mud all over him" or they know someone that really looks like bridge guy and he only lives a mile away and that sure sounds like his voice too."

But nobody came forward enough to give adequate suspicion.

They had enough evidence to get a search warrant if they could only identify the person and do some basic checking.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

We certainly know a heck of a lot more now than we knew for the first 5+ years.
We know LE had some pretty good witnesses that had seen the killer on the bridge and later muddy and bloody, and a tight timeline early on. They had pretty good ideas where the killer parked and where he exited and knew the time he was leaving the crime scene. They knew Libby was being catfished. They shared none of this except for the parking information and that was two years out.
What we still know almost nothing about is the actual crime scene and evidence collected there. We only know the girls were stabbed and only partially clothed. That they were killed where they were found. That an unspent .40 caliber bullet was found between the bodies and Libby’s phone was found underneath her body.
My point is there is still a ton of evidence we don’t even know about. The prosecution has to share it with the defense, but they don’t have to share it all with us.

 

[photographer4]

We certainly know a heck of a lot more now than we knew for the first 5+ years.
We know LE had some pretty good witnesses that had seen the killer on the bridge and later muddy and bloody, and a tight timeline early on. They had pretty good ideas where the killer parked and where he exited and knew the time he was leaving the crime scene. They knew Libby was being catfished. They shared none of this except for the parking information and that was two years out.
What we still know almost nothing about is the actual crime scene and evidence collected there. We only know the girls were stabbed and only partially clothed. That they were killed where they were found. That an unspent .40 caliber bullet was found between the bodies and Libby’s phone was found underneath her body.
My point is there is still a ton of evidence we don’t even know about. The prosecution has to share it with the defense, but they don’t have to share it all with us.

We know they lost a lot of blood at the scene, and that there was a sharp object involved but what if they weren't stabbed? What if they injured themselves in order to avoid going to another location? To create an even bigger problem for the perp than two girls fighting? What if they opted for self harm, on a gamble, and it went badly for them? Anything is possible. If they died during the commission of a kidnapping, then that is enough to charge someone with murder, is it not? I'm very interested to see what evidence the police have here, and to hopefully learn what the hell happened out there that day!

 

[TL4S]

We know they lost a lot of blood at the scene, and that there was a sharp object involved but what if they weren't stabbed? What if they injured themselves in order to avoid going to another location? To create an even bigger problem for the perp than two girls fighting? What if they opted for self harm, on a gamble, and it went badly for them? Anything is possible. If they died during the commission of a kidnapping, then that is enough to charge someone with murder, is it not? I'm very interested to see what evidence the police have here, and to hopefully learn what the hell happened out there that day!

I don't know how it all went down, but like you, I want to know what the hell happened out there that day. And why. A man who has lived in the general region his entire life just suddenly snaps? Leaving lots of physical evidence, an odd crime scene, signatures, and two victims, all for his seemingly first and only killing at 45 years old? A man who has owned a gun since 2001 and lived only a few miles from the trail system, but that day just happened to be the day everything changed for him? I just don't get it.

 

[AC4RD]

I don't know how it all went down, but like you, I want to know what the hell happened out there that day. And why. A man who has lived in the general region his entire life just suddenly snaps? Leaving lots of physical evidence, an odd crime scene, signatures, and two victims, all for his seemingly first and only killing at 45 years old? A man who has owned a gun since 2001 and lived only a few miles from the trail system, but that day just happened to be the day everything changed for him? I just don't get it.

I darned sure don't get it either, and maybe I'd be concerned if i DID get it--if I thought like HE does. :-/

I do think RA had been brooding and fantasizing about doing something to a young girl, might have been thinking and fantasizing for years. He may have tried before, may even have done something before; I do think he went to the trails with a sick soul and evil plans.

I'm saying the same thing as you, @TL4S, with a slightly different focus. I entirely agree with you--don't want any confusion on that!

None of us "get it" about RA's heart, do we? That's probably a good thing. --ken

 

[TL4S]

I darned sure don't get it either, and maybe I'd be concerned if i DID get it--if I thought like HE does. :-/

I do think RA had been brooding and fantasizing about doing something to a young girl, might have been thinking and fantasizing for years. He may have tried before, may even have done something before; I do think he went to the trails with a sick soul and evil plans.

I'm saying the same thing as you, @TL4S, with a slightly different focus. I entirely agree with you--don't want any confusion on that!

None of us "get it" about RA's heart, do we? That's probably a good thing. --ken

Agreed! Total spitballing here, but I think if this goes to trial, and assuming RA is the killer, we might end up finding out that there was a sequence of events leading up to that day. I don't have any idea what those events might have been, whether it be mental health issues, drug or alcohol use, personal or financial troubles, online activity, or anything else, but something had to bring him to a point where, at 45 years old, he made the conscious decision to kill two children. IMO, his background, especially his more recent history, might provide more answers than that he was a simple CVS worker with a wife and daughter, who played pool at night. JMO.

 

[Falling Down]

Agreed! Total spitballing here, but I think if this goes to trial, and assuming RA is the killer, we might end up finding out that there was a sequence of events leading up to that day. I don't have any idea what those events might have been, whether it be mental health issues, drug or alcohol use, personal or financial troubles, online activity, or anything else, but something had to bring him to a point where, at 45 years old, he made the conscious decision to kill two children. IMO, his background, especially his more recent history, might provide more answers than that he was a simple CVS worker with a wife and daughter, who played pool at night. JMO.

His driving before he parked might indicate something going on in his mind, the PCA states the Focus was seen going westbound on C.R. 300. I've kind of dismissed this info, that it can be explained away as a local knowing how to get to C.R. 300 without using IN 25, which many in that area would have known prior to the highway opening in 2016. 25 would have been the easiest route to take, assuming he was home before the murders.

Maybe he was driving country roads east of there, contemplating what his urges were telling him to do. Maybe he was in the area of Peru, as he grew up near there.

JMO