IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #165

[Yemelyan]

When in 2019 LE changed direction in their investigation, they had a new face - young BG - in their view, between 18 and 40, younger looking, etc. and probably they finally lost track of someone like RA.

I was referring to the fact that when statements about the safety of the community were made, some investigators believed, based on the scene (and probably also based on the fact that they recovered a video of the man walking up and abducting them), that the crime would be solved/resolved in a day or two. Reference some of the interviews Ives has given where he talks about this belief and how shocked they all were when they were months into the investigation and still had no suspect. This all predates the young BG sketch bring brought into play.

Edit to say - I'm aware the young BG sketch was actually made within days of the crime - before the old BG sketch in fact- but when I write "predates" I meant, it had not been made public at the time in the investigation when LE were talking about relative risk in the community and when Ives, for example, says LE were confident based on the evidence that the crime would be quickly solved.

 

[FromGermany1]

I was referring to the fact that when statements about the safety of the community were made, some investigators believed, based on the scene (and probably also based on the fact that they recovered a video of the man walking up and abducting them), that the crime would be solved/resolved in a day or two. Reference some of the interviews Ives has given where he talks about this belief and how shocked they all were when they were months into the investigation and still had no suspect. This all predates the young BG sketch bring brought into play.

Edit to say - I'm aware the young BG sketch was actually made within days of the crime - before the old BG sketch in fact- but when I write "predates" I meant, it had not been made public at the time in the investigation when LE were talking about relative risk in the community and when Ives, for example, says LE were confident based on the evidence that the crime would be quickly solved.

You are right, my replying to your post wasn't on point at all. Maybe, I need coffee or similar?

 

[Yemelyan]

You are right, my replying to your post wasn't on point at all. Maybe, I need coffee or similar?

No worries! Haven't had my coffee yet either.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Does anyone want to venture a guess as to what this RA filing is for? Who is the FJA?

Administrative Event
Praecipe for Transcript to Allen County D05 Court Reporter and Felony Judicial Assistant

 

[StarryStarryNight]

No but we do have this:

08/08/2023	Praecipe for Transcript Filed Praecipe for Transcript Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 08/08/2023
08/08/2023	Administrative Event Praecipe for Transcript to Allen County D05 Court Reporter and Felony Judicial Assistant.

So what exactly is this? A request for a transcript of something?
By prosecution, defense, or third party?
Something from the last hearing?
Transcript of RA’s phone calls with the confessions?
More questions. Always questions.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I see it was filed by the defense. Probably something boring.

08/08/2023

Praecipe for Transcript Filed Praecipe for Transcript Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 08/08/2023

 

[FrostedGlass]

I see it was filed by the defense. Probably something boring.

08/08/2023

Praecipe for Transcript Filed Praecipe for Transcript Filed By: Allen, Richard M. File Stamp: 08/08/2023

Boring or not, I'm still curious. I thought Judge Gull might continue loading public records to the site she had set up but there have been no additions since the dump of 118 filings on June 27.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Boring or not, I'm still curious. I thought Judge Gull might continue loading public records to the site she had set up but there have been no additions since the dump of 118 filings on June 27.

That’s a good point. I thought the judge released all those documents because she determined they had been improperly sealed. The assumption would then be that that has been corrected and things were were being released open.

 

[FrostedGlass]

That’s a good point. I thought the judge released all those documents because she determined they had been improperly sealed. The assumption would then be that that has been corrected and things were were being released open.

Well, they still might be open but I think we would have to either go to the courthouse or buy them if we want to see the filings.

 

[Salah11]

I hope folks don't misunderstand or take what I'm about to say the wrong way...

IMO I don't see how the family of those girls ever gets "closure". Two precious lives were taken away so suddenly, and in such a horrific manner...I don't think it is reasonable to think their loved ones will ever feel a sense of finality...I suspect they simply get better at living with the loss each and every day. If it were me...the State could let me put the needle in my loved one's killer's arm, and it probably wouldn't do much for me...part of my heart would always be gone, and no amount of legal accountability would make it better for me long term.

I do hope they are able to be free of the media circus one day, and that LE are able to give them information regarding any questions they want answers to, that they haven't been able to be privy to thus far.

Lady justice is blind to the emotional needs of the victims and their families...she has to be. She will demand that accountability be handed out fairly and impartially...and that the rights of even the most despicable individual are defended and upheld.

IMO the families have handled the circus and lack of information exceedingly well. IMO they are wise in their patience...I suspect they want the right person held accountable, and I suspect they want to see lots of good evidence (like a jury does). Lord knows there have been enough shady characters investigated through the course of this crime that an unethical group of LE officials probably could have made a fairly convincing case against one or more of them by now (and taken the pressure off of themselves)...but they didn't...IMO LE in this case want the monster that did this held accountable probably more than any other criminal they've pursued in their careers...and just any shady character won't do...it has to be the one that did this.

JMO

Just to clarify my post yes I meant closure as in a killer not hanging over their heads and a Trial and all the stress that brings with it.


At the moment there is no simply let up for the family I would imagine. So when RA is convicted and I’m convinced he will he then a new chapter begins.

 

[MistyWaters]

That’s a good point. I thought the judge released all those documents because she determined they had been improperly sealed. The assumption would then be that that has been corrected and things were were being released open.

Court documents aren’t routinely released to the media but the media requests a copy if they feel it’s worthy of a news story. I imagine the cost has a bearing, typically there’s a cost involved in getting copies of court documents. The prior online release rectified a sealing mistake by the court so that’s why it was different IMO.

This latest filing is simply administrative. This is a sample from another jurisdiction of a “Praecipe for Transcript Filed”. It looks like it just means the defence requests a transcript of a hearing, possibly the latest one. No headline news story there.

https://www.portagecounty-oh.gov/sites/g/files/vyhlif3706/f/uploads/praecipe_for_transcript_1.pdf

 

[CGBSpender]

Boring or not, I'm still curious. I thought Judge Gull might continue loading public records to the site she had set up but there have been no additions since the dump of 118 filings on June 27.

Looks like it is a request for a transcript of the June 15, 2023, hearing. There is a copy on another popular social media site.

JMO

 

[somequestions]

If there are details in Richard Allen's confessions that only the killer would know, he is probably guilty. If there is forensic evidence in Richard Allen's car, he is probably guilty.

Maybe there actually is video of Richard Allen walking past the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance cameras and it is being kept secret? If there is not video of him walking past the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance cameras, I cannot understand why he chose to park where he did at the old CPS building.

I suppose he did not think he would end up muddy and bloddy, but then wasn't the crime possibly committed with a knife? It seems like the cemetery and the Mears lot parking area where Kelsi dropped Abby and Libby off at is before the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance cameras, if you make the assumption he knew about the surveillance cameras at the Hoosier Harveststore before he arrived at the Monon High Bridge trail area.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Looks like it is a request for a transcript of the June 15, 2023, hearing. There is a copy on another popular social media site.

JMO

I didn't find it but here is what was covered in that hearing. Wouldn't that be on the atty's view of the docket? Why would they need the transcript?

05/30/2023

Order Issued The Court, having had the defendant's Motion to Quash Subpoena under advisement, now grants the Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to Westville Correctional Facility relating to defendant's mental health records, mental health evaluations and/or exams, medical documentation and/or medical evaluations. The Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to Westville Correctional Facility regarding audio/video recordings, written observations, recordings, phone calls, written requests, or other documentation is denied. The Motion to Quash the Subpoena Duces Tecum directed to CVS Headquarters is denied. The defense Motion to Reconsider and Request for Due Process Hearing ordered set for hearing June 15, 2023, at 10:00 a.m. The hearing currently set on defendant's request for bail is ordered converted to a hearing on defendant's Motion to Suppress. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 05/25/2023

 

[MistyWaters]

If there are details in Richard Allen's confessions that only the killer would know, he is probably guilty. If there is forensic evidence in Richard Allen's car, he is probably guilty.

Maybe there actually is video of Richard Allen walking past the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance cameras and it is being kept secret? If there is not video of him walking past the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance cameras, I cannot understand why he chose to park where he did at the old CPS building.

I suppose he did not think he would end up muddy and bloddy, but then wasn't the crime possibly committed with a knife? It seems like the cemetery and the Mears lot parking area where Kelsi dropped Abby and Libby off at is before the Hoosier Harveststore surveillance cameras, if you make the assumption he knew about the surveillance cameras at the Hoosier Harveststore before he arrived at the Monon High Bridge trail area.

Your thoughts are based on the assumption that it is known RA preplanned the murder of Libby and Abby in the bridge area in advance. That’s never been a statement of fact made by LE or anyone else for that matter, that I can recall.

Maybe murdering two innocent teens wasn’t his initial intention when he went walking on the trails that day and instead he reacted to a sudden opportunity? We don’t know what motivated him except obviously it was not logical nor rational thought. JMO

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Your thoughts are based on the assumption that it is known RA preplanned the murder of Libby and Abby in the bridge area in advance. That’s never been a statement of fact made by LE or anyone else for that matter, that I can recall.

Maybe murdering two innocent teens wasn’t his initial intention when he went walking on the trails that day and instead he reacted to a sudden opportunity? We don’t know what motivated him except obviously it was not logical nor rational thought. JMO

I agree with you.
I think RA was fantasizing about killing people for a long while and was prepared and armed looking for an opportunity. He’d probably been out many times before in many different places, looking for a chance. From witnesses he seemed to be in a particularly foul mood that day and he found his chance.
The fact he parked at the CPS building, to me, means he wasn’t expecting his opportunity that day though he was prepared. No way he would plan it so he had to walk back that far with his choices being to either take the trail back or walk the road back somehow, with so many chances of being seen.

 

[Spartygirl]

I know I am in the minority here, but I still think this was pre-planned.
I think A & L were catfished, and that RA was in the ring of the A_S profile group,. HE knew Libby was going to be there. ( He possibly did NOT know Abby would be there also)
He purposely walked by other young females, like he was on a mission.
He knew what time to be there.

He exited thru the cemetery then proceeded to CR 300 N where he was seen with bloody clothes, walking back to his vehicle.
JMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

I agree with you.
I think RA was fantasizing about killing people for a long while and was prepared and armed looking for an opportunity. He’d probably been out many times before in many different places, looking for a chance. From witnesses he seemed to be in a particularly foul mood that day and he found his chance.
The fact he parked at the CPS building, to me, means he wasn’t expecting his opportunity that day though he was prepared. No way he would plan it so he had to walk back that far with his choices being to either take the trail back or walk the road back somehow, with so many chances of being seen.

I don’t even think he ever planned on killing anyone, I think something set him off and he snapped. No planning, no thinking, just blind rage then panic afterwards and trying to get back to his car without being seen.

 

[borndem]

Catching up (pant, pant) -- so glad things have come this far, oh so glad.
Hoping that nothing will go wrong re the status of the alleged killer.
I salute the never-give-up attitudes of LE, the girls' families and friends, and others who worked so hard to get to this point. Hoping that a plea and conviction will go clean, swift and without a hitch.
It's been years, but I feel sure that many of us who have followed this case from the beginning, and those who joined in later, will never forget these young girls, their sweet smiles and personalities, their plans for their futures and the love and friendship that Abby & Libby had for each other.
Justice for all.

 

[MistyWaters]

I don’t even think he ever planned on killing anyone, I think something set him off and he snapped. No planning, no thinking, just blind rage then panic afterwards and trying to get back to his car without being seen.

Yes I agree. The fact that three (or four?) witnesses sighted him at the bridge I think is further proof he didn’t have a preset murder plan in place at that time although it appears he was already agitated over something. However he couldn’t have known if any of those witnesses recognized him from the CVS store which may be why he later admitted having crossed paths with them. But it doesn’t really make sense to still go ahead with a murder plot, knowing you’ve been sighted.

It’s more likely IMO that something set him off into a blind rage, rather than he went there in anticipation of committing a double murder because he learned in advance two teens would be there. The trail itself was known to be a magnet for young people, which he had to have been fully familiar with given he was local. In my mind it resembles someone telling a thief there’s money in a bank. It goes without saying, it’s unnecessary.

I might change my mind if there was even one iota of a suggestion that RA was involved in any sort of illicit online communication involving minors but so far…..nothing. I get the impression LE wants to permanently disconnect RA from KK, even though KK did his part in inviting the rumours as well. JMO