IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[Emma Peel]

If that's the case, then we haven't seen the totality of the leak and maybe no damage has been done.

I've never seen anyone asking for every last detail. If LE had not been so mysterious from the very beginning, maybe we wouldn't have been desperately searching so hard to find anything. If we aren't web sleuths, then what are we?

what are we?
oh dear, it may be best not to encourage me to go all introspective and stuff.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I'd like to offer hope here ... any Franks hearing motion must be considered upon the merits of the written arguments and nothing else. Given this is an extremely high profile case ... the microscope is also on the Court (judge). JMO.

There were a few valid points in the Memo, more I think in the streamlined follow up Memo. Even the Defense admitted the first one didn't address directly some of their Franks Motion allegations.

How's that for how crazy this case has become overall? It's like watching a bad car accident.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes. I just posted something in agreement. There's nuance to be considered. Sanctions due to temporary local hires behaviors ... may not be in order. Up to the Court's discretion.

AND the Court will consider defendant's preference as to starting over with new counsel; and part of that will involve consideration of defendant's psych eval.

All MOO

Locations of those involved in leaks (vern’s post #80) indicate them not to be ”temporary local hires“. Why blame it on locals? How would it assist the defence who’s home base is elsewhere to hire assistants in Delphi?

 

[Bergmann]

Right, and regardless of whether the Defense stays in place or not, I doubt very seriously this case will even be near ready in Jan 24. I look more towards mid to late '24 if then.

Even before this nonsense it was never going to proceed in Jan '24 - D said they had approx 30+ depositions they wanted to conduct.

I'm thinking end of '24 at this rate. Can't imagine RA is pleased about facing another year in Westville, and mostly in solitary.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Even before this nonsense it was never going to proceed in Jan '24 - D said they had approx 30+ depositions they wanted to conduct.

I'm thinking end of '24 at this rate. Can't imagine RA is pleased about facing another year in Westville, and mostly in solitary.

We'll see if the Judge considers his motion to transfer again. Maybe? It will interesting to see the results of Franks Motions hopefully on Oct 31 of they do indeed happen then. I believe they need to for sure.

 

[MistyWaters]

We'll see if the Judge considers his motion to transfer again. Maybe? It will interesting to see the results of Franks Motions hopefully on Oct 31 of they do indeed happen then. I believe they need to for sure.

I’m not convinced the defence really expects the Judge to grant a Franks Hearing. The Oct 31st date aligns to the date the prosecution is to have provided the balance of discovery and possibly the defence‘s deadline as well (?). Plus a hearing on the ballistics evidence has yet to be held, if the SW is upheld. Just guessing, it also could be a Status Hearing on that date.

“A trial court is obligated to conduct a Franks hearing only if the defendant makes a preliminary showing that: 1) The affiant knowingly and intentionally, or with reckless disregard for the truth, included a false statement in the warrant affidavit; and, 2) that the allegedly false statement was necessary to a finding of probable cause.”

What is A Franks Hearing? | Search Warrant Justification

A law firm dedicated to criminal defense including Frank's Hearings in Southwest Michigan. Offices located in Kalamazoo & Berrien County.

www.hillslawoffice.com

 

[girlhasnoname]

I’m not convinced the defence really expects the Judge to grant a Franks Hearing. The Oct 31st date aligns to the date the prosecution is to have provided the balance of discovery and possibly the defence‘s deadline as well (?). Plus a hearing on the ballistics evidence has yet to be held, if the SW is upheld. Just guessing, it also could be a Status Hearing on that date.

“A trial court is obligated to conduct a Franks hearing only if the defendant makes a preliminary showing that: 1) The affiant knowingly and intentionally, or with reckless disregard for the truth, included a false statement in the warrant affidavit; and, 2) that the allegedly false statement was necessary to a finding of probable cause.”

What is A Franks Hearing? | Search Warrant Justification

A law firm dedicated to criminal defense including Frank's Hearings in Southwest Michigan. Offices located in Kalamazoo & Berrien County.

www.hillslawoffice.com

I thought the Status hearing was scheduled for the 19th?

 

[girlhasnoname]

If it is proven that the Defense leaked the crime scene photos to these sources, they should be disbarred IMO. I'm not saying it's true at this point.

I don't care if RA has to start all over again with new lawyers, they don't need to hold a law license if they did in fact do that. Plus, the fact of ineffective counsel would be more than satisfied as an appellate issue here already.

IMO

 

[MistyWaters]

I thought the Status hearing was scheduled for the 19th?

You’re right, it is. The Clerk of the Court file reveals no scheduled hearing for the 31st yet.

Status Hearings in Criminal Cases

A status hearing is an opportunity for the judge in a criminal case to determine whether the case will be a guilty plea or a trial.

cornerstonelaw.us

WHAT IS A STATUS HEARING?​

In general, a status hearing is simply a date for the judge to check in with the prosecutor, criminal defense attorney and the criminal defendant on how the case is going and whether it will be resolved without trial.

10/12/2023

Order Issued On the Courts motion, this cause is ordered set for status hearing on October 19, 2023 at 2:00 p.m. in the Allen Superior Court. Counsel ordered to arrange their schedules to appear. The purpose of the hearing is to discuss the up coming hearing on October 31, 2023 and other matters which have recently arisen. Court will prepare a transport order to have Defendant appear. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 10/12/2023

 

[MistyWaters]

If it is proven that the Defense leaked the crime scene photos to these sources, they should be disbarred IMO. I'm not saying it's true at this point.

I don't care if RA has to start all over again with new lawyers, they don't need to hold a law license if they did in fact do that. Plus, the fact of ineffective counsel would be more than satisfied as an appellate issue here already.

IMO

It’s possible only Baldwin will face possible sanctions or dismissal as the leak appears associated to his associate. If so, as he was appointed co-counsel it wouldn’t cause a total disruption of RA’s defence.

BBM
“Facebook messages reviewed by FOX 59 contain discussions by two other people — a man from Hamilton County who reportedly received the information from the former Baldwin associate, and a Texas man with whom he shared that information.”

Indiana State Police reportedly investigating evidence leak in Delphi murder case

DELPHI, Ind. — An investigation by “The Murder Sheet” podcast, certain elements of which have been confirmed by FOX59, indicates an alleged leak of sensitive crime scene evidence by Ric…

fox59.com

“Andrew J. Baldwin, of the firm Baldwin Perry & Kamish, filed his appearance just before 2 p.m. Monday. Just before 3 p.m. Monday, Bradley A. Rozzi from Logansport entered his appearance on behalf of Allen.

Baldwin is listed on his court appearance paperwork as co-counsel, and Rozzi is listed as counsel.”

Court appoints two attorneys to represent Delphi murder suspect

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen pleaded last week for a court-appointed attorney, and he received two lawyers on Monday.

www.jconline.com

 

[FromGermany1]

You’re right, it is. The Clerk of the Court file reveals no scheduled hearing for the 31st yet.

Status Hearings in Criminal Cases

A status hearing is an opportunity for the judge in a criminal case to determine whether the case will be a guilty plea or a trial.

cornerstonelaw.us

WHAT IS A STATUS HEARING?​

In general, a status hearing is simply a date for the judge to check in with the prosecutor, criminal defense attorney and the criminal defendant on how the case is going and whether it will be resolved without trial.

10/12/2023

Order Issued On the Courts motion, this cause is ordered set for status hearing on October 19, 2023 at 2:00 p.m. in the Allen Superior Court. Counsel ordered to arrange their schedules to appear. The purpose of the hearing is to discuss the up coming hearing on October 31, 2023 and other matters which have recently arisen. Court will prepare a transport order to have Defendant appear. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 10/12/2023

bbm green

Without trial??

 

[MistyWaters]

bbm green

Without trial??

That would only happen if RA pled guilty. He already entered a plea of not guilty, but he would have opportunity to change it based on evidence contained within the discovery…or I suppose given his confession as well.

 

[photographer4]

If the D cannot manage and control sensitive information and they get rebuked for this by Gull at the hearing this week, then they've also totally shot themselves in the foot in terms of credibility to point the finger at P in a Franks hearing. If they're even still on the case at that point.

Really disappointing.

I am over here wondering if this might not end in a mistrial?

 

[MistyWaters]

Key crime scene evidence will be 'Rorschach test' for Delphi murders jury

DETAILS of items left at the Delphi murders crime scene and how the victims’ bodies were discovered will be a Rorschach test for the jury during accused killer Richard Allen’s upcoming …

www.the-sun.com

…..”Cain said the defense's newest claims that Allen is being mistreated by supposedly Odnisist prison guards is likely a preemptive attempt to discredit Allen's alleged confessions.

But instead of citing an apparent decline in mental health, the defense now appears to be implying coercion, she said.

"I think we're seeing something interesting happening here," said Cain, "and it is quieter than the Odinism stuff, but the fact that their initial response was he was under stress and having psychotic symptoms, now we're moving away from mental health and going for more straight up coercion.

"At the same time, the prosecution is filing for his mental health records in Westville, so they want to see who he's been talking to.

"Does the defense now want to make mental health less of an issue, because there are concerns about the prosecution acquiring those records and what may be documented in them?

"We're very interested to see how this plays out because this is a huge shift from he was just stressed out in a situation worsened by a horrible environment and maybe underlying mental health issues, to Odinist guards told him to say this."..”

 

[Ravenmoon]

Like so many of you here, I have followed this case from the beginning.

I have read anything that comes from LE. I have have watched interviews, press conferences, and discussed theories. I have gone down rabbit holes, suspected about 4 people before RA was arrested and waited for answers.

The arrest of RA was a relief, but there are so many questions that still linger.


For the first time in almost 7 years, I feel like this case has become so much of a circus that I am wondering why it feels like we are no closer to justice than we were before the arrest.

I believe that they have the correct man, but the theatrics and secrets are derailing the progress. I feel sad and discouraged.

I hope that some semblance of dignity will prevail and that we find ourselves on the path to a fair trial and ultimately, a conviction.

Praying for the ridiculous drama and senseless trauma to come to an end.


JMO

 

[Bergmann]

I feel like this case has become so much of a circus that I am wondering why it feels like we are no closer to justice than we were before the arrest.

I feel you. We probably have different assessments of the case but I think everyone wants a satisfactory conclusion to this.

This case really worries me and that's probably why it has caught my attention from the off.

Somebody kidnaps two young girls in broad daylight, they are found 22 hours later nearby to where they were last seen. They have been horrifically murdered, they were moved and then staged, clothes removed etc. The kidnapper is captured on cell phone video, images and his voice.

70,000 tips came in. DC in press conference amps up the 'someone must know the killer, he must have told someone, the killer is amongst us' etc in a town of 3000 people where the likely pool of adult males in the age range is a matter of hundreds . LE tell us DNA has been recovered from the scene. There can only be a handful or two of people out on the trails on that day.

You would have put money on the killer(s) being found pretty quickly based on all that, right?

But no, its taken 5 years for a clerk to find a report filed at the time for a suspect to be charged with what I consider IMO to be pretty thin evidence (accepting we don't know what or if LE have more) for a case like this when you consider how this crime happened.

IMO something is very off with all this. I'm not buying it. I don't trust or accept what any of them are saying - how could you?

Everything gets sealed away, P don't want cameras in court = not good IMO; and you have D throwing all kinds of accusations around from the possibly founded to the ridiculous, doing things that D just don't do (finger point at P), and now the leaks of material under protective order on top of all this.

Now the J has to start to try to get in the middle of all this crap and sort all this out and return what I agree has become a circus to some kind of sensible order.

All the legal folks I know keep saying 'just WTF is going on in Delphi?'

 

[zh0r4]

I feel you. We probably have different assessments of the case but I think everyone wants a satisfactory conclusion to this.

This case really worries me and that's probably why it has caught my attention from the off.

Somebody kidnaps two young girls in broad daylight, they are found 22 hours later nearby to where they were last seen. They have been horrifically murdered, they were moved and then staged, clothes removed etc. The kidnapper is captured on cell phone video, images and his voice.

70,000 tips came in. DC in press conference amps up the 'someone must know the killer, he must have told someone, the killer is amongst us' etc in a town of 3000 people where the likely pool of adult males in the age range is a matter of hundreds . LE tell us DNA has been recovered from the scene. There can only be a handful or two of people out on the trails on that day.

You would have put money on the killer(s) being found pretty quickly based on all that, right?

But no, its taken 5 years for a clerk to find a report filed at the time for a suspect to be charged with what I consider IMO to be pretty thin evidence (accepting we don't know what or if LE have more) for a case like this when you consider how this crime happened.

IMO something is very off with all this. I'm not buying it. I don't trust or accept what any of them are saying - how could you?

Everything gets sealed away, P don't want cameras in court = not good IMO; and you have D throwing all kinds of accusations around from the possibly founded to the ridiculous, doing things that D just don't do (finger point at P), and now the leaks of material under protective order on top of all this.

Now the J has to start to try to get in the middle of all this crap and sort all this out and return what I agree has become a circus to some kind of sensible order.

All the legal folks I know keep saying 'just WTF is going on in Delphi?'

Another thing that still feels off to me is the BG/DTH video from Libby’s phone.

On page 110 of the search warrant affidavit, it is stated the same video contains both the man on the bridge and the audio saying “Down the Hill”-a 43 second video. Personally, I was unaware these 2 recordings were within the same video. If this is the case, the audio of “Down the Hill” would either have a closer shot of the perp’s face and/or clothing OR it would show nothing if she put it in her pocket trying to hide the phone. If the defense memo is accurate and she was unclothed, what is the probability the phone would not only not be found, but left under her body? In either case, why not show the entire 43 second video? If the video showed more identifying features of the perp, that would be more information to take to identify them; if the video was in her pocket and didn’t show anything, why not show it all and confirm the same man on the bridge approaches them, then says “Down the Hill”? It doesn’t make sense to not show the entire 43 second video from the beginning to try to identify the perp. JMO

 

[steeltowngirl]

I feel you. We probably have different assessments of the case but I think everyone wants a satisfactory conclusion to this.

RA’s defense team only has one satisfactory conclusion: to have RA walk free.

The rest of us want justice for Libby and Abby.

jmo

 

[Bergmann]

RA’s defense team only has one satisfactory conclusion: to have RA walk free.

The rest of us want justice for Libby and Abby.

Agree D have one objective to focus upon.

These two things might not be mutually exclusive of course.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Agree D have one objective to focus upon.

These two things might not be mutually exclusive of course.

True…. unless RA is actually guilty.

In that instance, RA’s defense team will not have furthered justice. As you note, justice is not their objective. Freeing RA is their only objective, regardless of his guilt or innocence.