IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #168

[Betty P]

Hopefully this will be properly investigated and quickly reported, to help fend off the endless speculation and questions.

I would certainly like to see a full dated timeline of when the images were initially acquired, the date when they were passed to two podcasters, and when they were passed on to LE and then reported on.

This additional sideshow is obscuring the actual procedural matters at hand which is very unhelpful as there are some important matters to rule on without this getting in the way...

JMO, it needs more than investigation. It needs strong sanction against all involved and a stern detailed warning from the judge. Tighten it up, lock it down. It’s still a long way to trial.

 

[zh0r4]

Yes, for me, the logical conclusion is that the leak is defense-related, as the talk of seen photos began after the defense team was appointed. The only exception was RL, who began rambling in 2017, likely sourced from rumors that may have started with searchers. Seems to me that in their memorandum, defense capitalized on rumors of one of the wild theories, and have bolstered their theory with photo leaks that ‘crept’ into social media.

jmo and speculation

Do you know around what date the defense team was appointed?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Do you know around what date the defense team was appointed?

November 2022

Court appoints two attorneys to represent Delphi murder suspect

Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen pleaded last week for a court-appointed attorney, and he received two lawyers on Monday.

www.jconline.com

 

[legalmomma]

10/17/2023

Order Issued This case has generated substantial public interest and media attention. In light of this, and on the Court's own motion to ensure the integrity of the proceedings, to protect the Defendant's constitutional rights for due process, to ensure the safety of the parties and the public, and to permit public access to criminal proceedings, the Court sets forth the following rules and guidelines for the hearing set for Thursday, October 19, 2023, in the Allen Superior Court. The Courthouse will open at 8:00 a.m. All entrances are closed, except for the entrance on the east side of the building. The remaining entrances are locked with no access to the public. All members of the public, including members of the media, are subject to screening by metal detectors. All bags in possession of those entering the building are subject to search. NO weapons of any kind are permitted in the building, except for on-duty law enforcement officers providing security to the Courthouse and the parties. Cellular telephones are NOT permitted in the building. Violations are subject to seizure and destruction of the cellular telephone. No electronic equipment or devices are permitted in the Allen County Courthouse. This includes electronic watches. Media personnel are permitted to attend the Court session. One or two cameras providing pool coverage will be permitted in the Court session. No still photography or other recording will be permitted. No other media equipment will be permitted in the Courthouse. The Court requests the media be mindful that other County offices are conducting business in the building unrelated to this case. Media and members of the public are ordered to conduct themselves in such a fashion as to limit disruption to the offices, personnel, and patrons of those offices. The Media are free to use the public areas outside the Courthouse as long as they do not obstruct traffic in the streets and sidewalks surrounding the Courthouse. Public seating in the Allen Superior Courtroom One is limited to 90 spectators. The Sheriff of Allen County or his designee will ensure that the victim representatives are seated and that the defendant's family is seated. The first two rows of public seating in the south side of the Coutroom will be reserved for the State, the State's staff, victims representatives, and State designees. The first two rows of public seating in the north side of the Courtroom will be reserved for the defense staff, defense family, and defense designees. The remaining seating is available until full. No one, other than Court Security and law enforcement, will be permitted to stand in the Courtroom. No food or beverages are permitted inside Allen Superior Court. Water will be permitted for the parties in the well of the Courtroom. All members of the public and the media are required to follow directives of the Sheriff of Carroll County, the Sheriff of Allen County, Courthouse Security, and Courtroom Security. NO court-produced recording will be made available to the public or media. The audio record made pursuant to Indiana Criminal Rule 5 may not be copied or used for purposes other than perpetuating the record. At the conclusion of the scheduled hearing, all members of the public and media will remain seated in the courtroom until Court Security releases them. The Court anticipates that all members of the public and the media will conduct themselves in an appropriate fashion. Any violation of this Order and any conduct the Court finds disruptive of the proceedings may result in an order of temporary or permanent exclusion from the Courtroom and/or Courthouse and is punishable as contempt of Court. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 10/17/2023

10/19/2023

Status Hearing Session: 10/19/2023 2:00 PM, Rescheduled Session: 10/19/2023 2:00 PM, Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Comment: To be held in Allen Superior D05

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Link to IN court stream (not knowing if this is how the 10/19 Thursday hearing will be broadcasted)

IN Court Streams - IN Court Streams

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[girlhasnoname]

Do you know around what date the defense team was appointed?

November 2022, because RA denied his right to court appointed counsel and said he would be hiring his own during his first appearance in front of the Judge after his arrest.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Anybody know why this order talks about a 10/31 hearing, but no hearing is shown to be scheduled for 10/31?

10/12/2023

Order Issued On the Courts motion, this cause is ordered set for status hearing on October 19, 2023 at 2:00 p.m. in the Allen Superior Court. Counsel ordered to arrange their schedules to appear. The purpose of the hearing is to discuss the up coming hearing on October 31, 2023 and other matters which have recently arisen. Court will prepare a transport order to have Defendant appear. Judicial Officer: Gull, Frances -SJ Order Signed: 10/12/2023

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

They are proposing Oct 31st as a possible date for the Franks Motion.

moo

 

[Bergmann]

JMO, it needs more than investigation. It needs strong sanction against all involved and a stern detailed warning from the judge. Tighten it up, lock it down. It’s still a long way to trial.

Yes, all I was saying is lets get the facts established first. I'm sure sanctions of some kind will follow.

JMO but I suspect some under the table game playing is going on.

 

[girlhasnoname]

It can also result in a mistrial, something most defense teams work towards.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/law_related_education_network/how_courts_work/mistrials/

Mistrials can occur for many reasons:

• death of a juror or attorney
• an impropriety in the drawing of the jury discovered during the trial
• a fundamental error prejudicial (unfair) to the defendant that cannot be cured by appropriate instructions to the jury (such as the inclusion of highly improper remarks in the prosecutor's summation)
• juror misconduct (e.g., having contacts with one of the parties, considering evidence not presented in the trial, conducting an independent investigation of the matter)
• the jury's inability to reach a verdict because it is hopelessly deadlocked.

I hope I understood your post correctly. Mistrials can only happen if a jury is empaneled and the process is already in motion. Whatever happens in this search for the leak of evidence, IMO, will not stop with this trial moving forward.

I think it will ultimately delay the trial, and if the current Defense team had any hand init or knowledge of it, I think they should be disbarred. A slap on the wrist is comical for the release of this highly inflammatory information. They will be sanctioned and/or disbarred IMO.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

It can also result when the prosecution tries to use evidence in the trial that was leaked beforehand to the general public, including the potential jury pool. It becomes prejudicial information and can cause a mistrial if it can't be "cured" by appropriate jury instructions.

The defense should not be allowed to share publicly evidence and arguments they're filing in the pre-trial phase. The public can hear all of their crazy theories and see evidence once the trial begins, not before. Judges don't usually allow defense teams to argue their case in the news media before the trial begins.

That is true, but this Defense team has found sneaky and unethical ways to circumvent the ordered Gag Order.

IMO

 

[Betty P]

That is true, but this Defense team has found sneaky and unethical ways to circumvent the ordered Gag Order.

IMO

It's up to the judge to fix that. They should have brought them to heel the first time they pulled a trick. IIRC, they've pulled a few. There's a fine line that a judge has to walk WRT keeping defense and prosecution teams honest and ethical, but an experienced trial judge who has taken a lot of cases to trial knows how. From reading on this problem during a few recent trials, so many criminal cases are plea bargained these days that judges don't get the experience they need in having a full blown trial.

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/22/1158356619/plea-bargains-criminal-cases-justice

The prevalence of plea bargaining exploded in the last several decades as a way to save money and time and to promote more certainty in outcomes. But the practice comes with "a very high cost," said Lucian Dervan, a professor at Belmont University College of Law in Nashville.

You also have to wonder if judges who often cooperate with defense attorneys on the day to day plea bargain cases end up being too lax on them when its a real trial. JMO only

 

[FrostedGlass]

Do you know around what date the defense team was appointed?

10/26 Wed. Arrested
10/28 Fri. Initial Hearing
11/03 Thurs. RA transfer Request, Safekeeping Request, Recusal
11/09 Wed. RA Letter Request for Atty
11/15 Tues. Order for RA Public Defenders

 

[Betty P]

I hope I understood your post correctly. Mistrials can only happen if a jury is empaneled and the process is already in motion. Whatever happens in this search for the leak of evidence, IMO, will not stop with this trial moving forward.

I think it will ultimately delay the trial, and if the current Defense team had any hand init or knowledge of it, I think they should be disbarred. A slap on the wrist is comical for the release of this highly inflammatory information. They will be sanctioned and/or disbarred IMO.

MOO

I think the defense will bring up the issue and ask for a mistrial or to have the case thrown out via another method both pre-trial and during. I've heard defense attorneys argue it both ways.

@PrairieWind or @gitana1 might be able to answer these questions for us.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Are we allowed to discuss the GH video? He's been a confirmed source here for awhile. Mods please delete if not.

In the Gray Hughes video, he said the photos he had of the crime scene proved (in his opinion) that this was not an Odinistic ritual style killing. There were 2 sticks on each girl one over the left side of their body and one across their body. Like the killer had intended to try and build a cover up over them with sticks and leaves.

No runes displayed on the bodies or antlers above the girls heads, he clearly shows the supposed F on the tree in Libby's blood and it looks to me like a blood drip and dots of blood, not an intentional F.

MOO

 

[Justice101]

I hope I understood your post correctly. Mistrials can only happen if a jury is empaneled and the process is already in motion. Whatever happens in this search for the leak of evidence, IMO, will not stop with this trial moving forward.

I think it will ultimately delay the trial, and if the current Defense team had any hand init or knowledge of it, I think they should be disbarred. A slap on the wrist is comical for the release of this highly inflammatory information. They will be sanctioned and/or disbarred IMO.

MOO

THIS!

 

[girlhasnoname]

Ya know ...
We could all just focus on our holiday cleaning if RA would simply confess.

Hah, well get cleaning Emma RA has confessed 5 times.

 

[Justice101]

Are we allowed to discuss the GH video? He's been a confirmed source here for awhile. Mods please delete if not.

In the Gray Hughes video, he said the photos he had of the crime scene proved (in his opinion) that this was not an Odinistic ritual style killing. There were 2 sticks on each girl one over the left side of their body and one across their body. Like the killer had intended to try and build a cover up over them with sticks and leaves.

No runes displayed on the bodies or antlers above the girls heads, he clearly shows the supposed F on the tree in Libby's blood and it looks to me like a blood drip and dots of blood, not an intentional F.

MOO

I hope this is okay to mention.. .but I went down the rabbit hole and watched his video and drawings of what he saw in the picture.

I agree and based on his description it is more like someone trying to make a "lean to" with sticks in and around the body to eventually cover it up.

I'm thinking he was searching for dead branches, found a few, but had trouble finding enough either dead vegetation (it was winter) or small enough sticks to finish his job.

I was also thinking he may have heard the parents or searchers calling for the girls at that point or just decided he needed to leave the scene and get to safety because it looks like he had been there over an hour already.

The F looks to me where someone just simply wipe the knife off in a couple of random directions. There is no bottom line in the "F"

Regardless the description (if accurate) but very weird and doesn't make much sense at all (to a sane person)

 

[girlhasnoname]

Depends when you think the trial was going to actually take place in the first place. I know there was a schedule for Jan '24 but that was never going to happen even before this leak and other filings. The scale of discovery hand over and number of D depositions had already made the Jan '24 date untenable - its just that the legal process and J ruling on these hadn't run its course yet to push this back. As I understand it J Gull was already in the throes of handling this.



I think some people (not pointed at you btw!) are getting carried away with what commercially biased 'creators' like the MS podcast have unhelpfully speculated upon and should perhaps consider why the MS have chosen to run with that particular line when most legally qualified commentators are seeing this much more soberly (they're not trying to make money off this case by speculating though so they are using more reasoned judgement based on what typically happens rather than what drives clicks and plays).

Again maybe we might want to wait until a proper investigation has established the facts before deciding the severity of the punishment, you know like waiting for a trial and conviction before decided to hang them lol!

Don't get me wrong - there's been some either significant data management incompetence, or worse still, some intentional wrong doing going on here which is very serious and needs to be stamped on pretty quickly so this case doesn't descend further into farce.

It shouldn't go unnoticed that we're now all talking about these bloody leaks rather than the material matters of recent filings and what the serious issues that they were raising mean for the case and hopefully in the end justice.

I didn't get any of my 'leak information' from MS. It came from the Gray Hughes video.

 

[Megnut]

I think there was an intention to burn.

Interrupted but I believe that would have been next.

JMO

 

[FromGermany1]

I think there was an intention to burn.

Interrupted but I believe that would have been next.

JMO

Though RL would have seen a (smoking??) fire or would have smelled it, if he was outside his house by chance.
Why a thorough staging with x signatures, if the place would get fired up at the end? Also senseless somehow - but who knows, how a psychopath ticks.

 

[Emma Peel]

Hah, well get cleaning Emma RA has confessed 5 times.

girl,
show me the plea.
until then, one load of laundry per confession.
that's the deal.