IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

[susiQ]

Almost a year to go before the recently set trial date, unless something happens before then. It’s up to a jury to decide if RA was falsely accused.

Yes, of course, and it is up to his defence to prove he was falsely accused, which is what they were trying to do.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes, of course, and it is up to his defence to prove he was falsely accused, which is what they were trying to do.

Maybe but considering they had an entire year to do it, it’d be fair to say they failed.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

The latest Murder Sheet podcast, although I haven’t listened to it yet. But as the content illustrates, allegations they’re solely pro-P seem a tad unfair.

Murder Sheet

The Murder Sheet is a weekly true crime podcast hosted by journalist Áine Cain and attorney Kevin Greenlee. We take a journalistic approach to covering true crime. We have broken national news on major cases, like the Delphi murders and the Burger Chef murders. We also cover plenty of other...

art19.com

The Delphi Murders: Richard Allen Goes to the Indiana Supreme Court: A Conversation with the Hoosier Public Defender

Richard Allen's team of attorneys filed with the Indiana Supreme Court on November 6, 2023 and made three requests.

1) That Allen's former defense team, Bradley Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin, be reinstated to the case.

2) That Judge Frances Gull be removed from the case.

3) That Allen be granted a trial within 70 days of the other requests being granted.

What does all of this mean? What are the chances that the requests will be granted?

Shay Hughes, or the Hoosier Public Defender, was kind enough to talk with us and help us sort it all out.

 

[O.Incandenza]

In what ways have they fought tooth and nail?

Did they schedule a bail hearing? Have they filed for evidentiary hearings? Did they get any evidence excluded? We were nearly at trial!

Yes on the evidentiary hearings. They filed a motion in limine on the ballistic evidence in June and a separate motion to suppress in May. I guess these motions were marked confidential by the court for some reason? From the public record, the judge seems to have ignored the motion on the ballistic evidence and continued the hearing on the motion to suppress while she waited for them to file the Franks motion. Maybe the hearing on the ballistics motion was also continued and it just wasn't mentioned in the order?

05/22/2023
Motion to Suppress Filed
Motion to Suppress
Filed By:
Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp: 05/19/2023

06/13/2023
Motion In Limine Filed
Motion in Limine Regarding Ballistics
Filed By:
Allen, Richard M.
File Stamp: 06/13/2023

They did have a bail hearing scheduled, but then the confessions happened and that plan went up in smoke. But they seem to have at least 3 major evidentiary motions that never got a real hearing before they were disqualified from the case.

I'm not a fan of a lot of what the defense has done in this case (and the leak is egregious), but I've certainly seen plenty of less invested defense counsel.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Has a judge ever allowed something like this before? Allowing defense attorneys who were forced to resign from a case to continue representing the defendant, at no charge?

As a general matter a defendant has a right to counsel of its choice - especially when it's privately retained and even when it's court-appointed if there has been a relationship established (and arguably here, the relationship established was significant). These cases are discussed in the thread and in the briefs and filings accessible on the docket except for lower court docket bc she wiped them out but you will find them as exhibits to the SCOIN action. But this scenario here is unprecedented. While it's possible this might have happened before, no one seemed to care enough to challenge it. Had defense counsel been provided notice and opportunity to be heard and the ability to adequately prepare for a hearing on these issues and then they (RA) still lost, I'm not sure SCOIN would have even accepted the case. I don't think they would have become involved and we probably wouldn't even be talking about this anymore tbh.

This is why in the 2 volume record of proceedings that accompanied the relator's brief in the second original action filed in SCION on 10/6 (linked here: IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #170), you'll see Hennessy made it a point to get objections on the record (Exhibit T) and then later, filed a sworn supplement to expand upon and preserve them (Verified Supplementation of Record, entered on 2nd docket below on 10/31/2023)

All jmo

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[Jurisprudence]

dbm

 

[sunshineray]

I don't see anything in your link about DNA being sent to Quantico almost 2 years after it was collected and after they already announced in 2017 that they sent out for expedited processing - in 2017. Is there another article?

I do see in a comment by the publication a quote from Leazenby that "more" evidence was sent almost 2 years later and that they were doing DNA testing but the quote (if it is accurate) indicates to me at least that it is not the "same" 2017 DNA if in fact the 2017 DNA was even sent the first time. Maybe it was sent for IGG? If so, where is that report?

TIA

To me it is the same, JMO. TL said evidence was sent to Quantico for "DNA testing research". It was also mentioned about possibly getting the private DNA companies involved, I'm thinking probably to see if what "evidence" there was for testing showed any familial matches?

I was surprised, back in Jan. 2019 to see TL had even given that interview. So no, I have no other link. It was right before CE was basically dismissed as a suspect and just a few months before the April 2019 PC.

 

[Jurisprudence]

To me it is the same, JMO. TL said evidence was sent to Quantico for "DNA testing research". It was also mentioned about possibly getting the private DNA companies involved, I'm thinking probably to see if what "evidence" there was for testing showed any familial matches?

I was surprised, back in Jan. 2019 to see TL had even given that interview. So no, I have no other link. It was right before CE was basically dismissed as a suspect and just a few months before the April 2019 PC.

So, maybe it was IGG. Q is if so, what happened with it? Does anyone know what the outcome was?

jmo

 

[sunshineray]

So, maybe it was IGG. Q is if so, what happened with it? Does anyone know what the outcome was?

jmo

Well not publically from LE as everything has been pretty much kept under wraps until trial.

 

[Jurisprudence]

Well not publically from LE as everything has been pretty much kept under wraps until trial.

Except that as late as August 3, 2023, they swore in their depos that it wasn't RA's at the scene. IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

jmo

 

[Ward Thisperer]

that ejector mark ballistic analysis is used routinely in other states to match unspent bullets to particular guns. It is only considered “junk science” by defense attorneys.

Interesting, do you have any links showing a conviction in which unspent bullet identification was crucial evidence?

 

[Ravenmoon]

Except that as late as August 3, 2023, they swore in their depos that it wasn't RA's at the scene. IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

jmo

I am not seeing anything at all that says " LE ( collectively) swears RA was not at the scene of the crime, or that his DNA wasn't found.

Isn't it a stretch to say that Liggett is the entire LE department?

JMO

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Information the prosecution has that we haven’t seen yet

—cell phone records(questions it could answer: was RA checking the stock ticker or striding, head down, like a man on a mission like witnesses claim; was his phone on; who did he call that day and days before and after; are records even available from 2017)

This is a good question that I want to highlight, does anyone know if things like details of app usage would be something held by phone or app companies for this long?

—DNA(was RA’s at the crime scene; was anyone in RA’s family DNA at the crime scene including pets; was Libby or Abby’s found anywhere in RA’s house or car or clothes)
—testimony from people about RA’s behavior leading up to and after 2/13/17(did RA enter rehab or a mental institution after 2/13/17)

AFAIK prosecution won't have the answer to this one because they haven't been able to get his medical records as D has moved to suppress those.

—security camera video(follow RA’s car to and from trails; confirm timeline)

another one I am dying to know too. We know they mention a similar car passing the Harvestore around 4pm, I wonder if there are any cameras in his neighborhood that might have caught him returning and help to either confirm or debunk LE timeline, if not any more cameras closer to the CS.

—RA’s history(we know so little about him)
—evidence gleaned from the search warrant( things of the girls; souvenirs from the crime scene; knives)
—computer evidence(photos or video from crime scene; search history; emails)

well we do know that LE testified under oath they haven't found anything connected to the CS in his home or devices.
What I am really curious about is evidence of CSAM or other violent sexual material on his devices. As someone who leans toward not guilty based on what I know so far, that type of info would have me leaning more the other way. I would think that if they did have evidence of CSAM they'd have added that to his charges, but I'm really not sure of the typical process of charges in something like this.

—work records(was RA off that day; how was his attendance after 2/13/17)

Per my understanding prosecution also isn't able to get these records at least not yet.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Maybe but considering they had an entire year to do it, it’d be fair to say they failed.

JMO

That seems to be an unfair framing imo, considering they only were given what they believe to be exculpatory evidence less than 2 weeks before putting out the FM.

 

[Salah11]

<modsnip>

He just happened to admit being there that day and dressed exactly the same as the man who killed the girls that day. A witness placed him on platform one and he also admitted to walking out to platform one and they then turned around and the girls walked past them towards the bridge.

It’s of course one big conspiracy even though RA himself has confessed multiple times and placed himself moments before the crime happened.

MOO

 

[Emma Peel]

<modsnip>

He just happened to admit being there that day and dressed exactly the same as the man who killed the girls that day. A witness placed him on platform one and he also admitted to walking out to platform one and they then turned around and the girls walked past them towards the bridge.

It’s of course one big conspiracy even though RA himself has confessed multiple times and placed himself moments before the crime happened.

MOO

"Innocent until proven guilty"

What a concept!

 

[Salah11]

"Innocent until proven guilty"

What a concept!

How can he be innocent when he has confessed to the crime?

That literally makes zero sense!!!

Once again he has confessed to his wife he had murdered them. So how exactly is he innocent?

An Indiana man charged with killing two teenage girls confessed multiple times to the murders in a phone call to his wife while in prison, according to court documents released Wednesday

Richard Allen confessed to killing Indiana girls as investigators say "sharp object" used in murders, documents reveal

Richard Allen confessed multiple times to killing Abigail Williams and Liberty German in phone calls to his wife and mother while in prison, according to court documents.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Emma Peel]

How can he be innocent when he has confessed to the crime?

That literally makes zero sense!!!

Once again he has confessed to his wife he had murdered them. So how exactly is he innocent?

Richard Allen confessed to killing Indiana girls as investigators say "sharp object" used in murders, documents reveal

Richard Allen confessed multiple times to killing Abigail Williams and Liberty German in phone calls to his wife and mother while in prison, according to court documents.

www.cbsnews.com

Because he's a US citizen.

 

[MistyWaters]

That seems to be an unfair framing imo, considering they only were given what they believe to be exculpatory evidence less than 2 weeks before putting out the FM.

That’s the question, is the Odins theory truly exculpatory evidence or was it merely a sensationalistic sideline to avoid directly attacking the evidence which resulted in RA’s arrest…..possibly because that evidence is too strong? Alternate defense theories might create doubt in the jury’s mind during a trial but I don’t think they’re going to result in getting charges dropped pretrial.

And since when did the definition of discovery change to include the complete investigative file? I thought it consisted of evidence the P intended to present at RA’s future trial. As much as the ex-D might wish for, RA and the Odins are not going to be on a chose-one-or-the-other trial.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

"Innocent until proven guilty"

What a concept!

You forgot to add
" In a court of law."