IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #172

[Cyber sleuth]

Thank you. I read her statement to say he was eating his paperwork on March 24, which was what I was questioning.

It’s a little ambiguous. Here’s another article but it’s hard to pin down the exact date.

Judge unseals more than 100 documents related to Delphi Murders Trial, including Richard Allen's 'admissions'

This morning, Special Judge Fran Gull, who is overseeing the Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen, unsealed numerous documents relating to the case.

www.wrtv.com

"On April 3, 2023, Richard M Allen made a phone call to his wife Kathy Allen. In that phone call, Richard M Allen admits several times that he killed Abby and Libby. Investigators had the phone call transcribed and the transcription confirms that Richard M Allen admits that he committed the murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German. He admits several times within the phone call that he committed the offenses (sic) as charged. His wife, Kathy Allen, ends the phone call abruptly."

The documents also contains multiple mentions of instances where Allen was acting different while being locked up, including times where he was eating paper from his attorneys.

"Richard M Allen was wetting down and paperwork he had gotten from his attorneys and eating it, he was refusing to eat and refusing to sleep. He would go days of refusing to sleep. He further broke the tablet that he used for text messages and phone calls. He went from making up to two phone calls a day as of April 3, 2023 to not making any phone calls at all.”

 

[Trebor5591]

I think AB is responsible for 2 leaks due to negligence on his part. One in May of 22 -which was not disclosed. The second leak may have been ongoing from August 1 to early October and is horrific in nature and damaging to the defendant.
I think the judge found issue with the inflammatory Press Release after agreeing to not to try the case in the media-BR
I think the judge was upset with the misleading claims in the Motion to Transfer filed in April- BR
I think the judge was unhappy with the lengthy and detailed memorandum was misfiled (she thought it should have been filed classified) and made public -BR

So as much as I believe BR actions individually are not as problematic; the culmination of errors/bad choices made by the defense tewm is almost beyond belief.

Negligence, yes, obviously. But the judge said the attorneys were "grossly negligent"--and there is quite a difference. Negligence means a careless mistake. Gross negligence is reckless or deliberate, not a mistake at all. IMO

 

[Cyber sleuth]

Negligence, yes, obviously. But the judge said the attorneys were "grossly negligent"--and there is quite a difference. Negligence means a careless mistake. Gross negligence is reckless or deliberate, not a mistake at all. IMO

Well then I will rephrase to grossly negligence because I feel it’s more appropriate.
I believe emailing work papers outlining discovery to uninvolved third party reckless. I also think leaving discovery and crime scene photos in an unsecured conference room extremely reckless.

In the statement you quoted. I was assigning blame to the appropriate party. I wasn’t trying to meet the legal threshold of gross negligence. I do expect the judge understands the threshold more than I.

 

[zh0r4]

Here is what you said in quotes. Below is what the Emergency Order said.
RA didn't see those docs until almost a week later.

https://fox59.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/21/2023/06/DelphiDocumentsCombined.pdf

Emergency Order To modify Safekeeping Order Filed 4/5/23
pg 243
I. Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's cooperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3'", 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen.

Do we know if that info was ever provided to RA (sometime after April 3 2023)?

 

[Trebor5591]

Yes me too. I think there is evidence connecting him beyond a bullet and being there that day looking like BG.

Aside from Allen's confession to his wife while on the phone in jail, I think there are likely three strong pieces of physical evidence tying Allen to the murder--stronger than the bullet with tools marks that supposedly matches Allen's pistol. 1) His location per his cell phone pings, 2) his voice, and 3) his size

1) His cell phone location - I've always wondered if Richard Allen's cell phone pinged to the murder site? We know he had his phone with him, since he was checking his phone as he watched the fish on Monan High Bridge. If his phone pings to the location where the murders occurred, that's very bad for him, in my opinion. If his phone shows him returning home as Libby and Abby were being murdered, then it is good for him. So far as I know, this is not something the police or the prosecution has released.

2) His voice - I feel confident LE compelled Allen to say "guys, down the hill" and recorded Allen saying this while he was being interrogated. If Allen's voice saying "guys, down the hill" matches with the voice on Libby's tape, that would be strong evidence in my opinion.

3) His size--Allen is a short guy and it shouldn't be terribly difficult for LE to estimate the height of "bridge guy" on the Monan High Bridge and compare it to Allen's size. I recall Gray Hughes doing this and saying the height of Bridge Guy and Richard Allen is a match.

The above is JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

Do we know if that info was ever provided to RA (sometime after April 3 2023)?

The post you responded to says

'Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's cooperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3'", 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen."

JMO

 

[FrostedGlass]

One of the issues that JG had with Ex D is that they do mislead in motions when it can be easily proven false.
Example: their Motion to request transfer was easily proven false by testimony by the warden.
Defense stated RA’s cell was 6x10 “ no bigger than a dog kennel”
False- Cell is 8 1/2 x 12
Defense stated that RA was only being permitted to shower 1 -2 times a week
False- RA was permitted to shower 3 times a week
Defense stated he was forced to wear soiled clothing
False-RA was provided clean clothes 3 times a week and allowed to purchase additional socks, shirts and shoes.
Defense stated RA is sleeping on mattress on floor
False Cell is equipped mattress on secured bed frame
Defense stated that RA was afforded very little rec time.
False- RA is afforded one hour of rec time 5 times a week.
Defense stated that RA was not afforded any opportunity to see his wife or family members for 5 months.
False-RA was permitted to have face to face meetings with his family.

The fact far the FM was so lengthy and attachments surpassing 1200 pages was IMO by design.
Makes it more burdensome to find proof of false statements.

I've seen the warden's list of replies before. I take it with many large grains of salt.

The warden let his guards wear Odin patches but made them remove them when it came to light.
The warden also told his guards to record RA's meetings with his attys, with him facing the camera.
He also stopped that practice before the judge could issue an order.

Do I think he would fudge his answers to the D's accusations? Well, I was searching for news articles about the prison and his name came up. So my answer to my question is: Yes.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Do we know if that info was ever provided to RA (sometime after April 3 2023)?

Not that I've seen yet.

 

[Ravenmoon]

I've seen the warden's list of replies before. I take it with many large grains of salt.

The warden let his guards wear Odin patches but made them remove them when it came to light.
The warden also told his guards to record RA's meetings with his attys, with him facing the camera.
He also stopped that practice before the judge could issue an order.

Do I think he would fudge his answers to the D's accusations? Well, I was searching for news articles about the prison and his name came up. So my answer to my question is: Yes.

"'Both officers signed affidavits admitting they wore patches that could be associated with Odinism but were not."

They are not Odinists.

Prosecutors disputing defense attorneys' claims Delphi homicide suspect Richard Allen being mistreated in state custody

Allen's defense attorneys are asking the judge to quash a subpoena for Allen's medical records.

www.wlfi.com

 

[zh0r4]

The post you responded to says

'Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's cooperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3'", 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen."

JMO

Yes it doesn’t say if he was ever given the info after April 3 2023.

bbm

Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's cooperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3'", 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen."

 

[zh0r4]

I've seen the warden's list of replies before. I take it with many large grains of salt.

The warden let his guards wear Odin patches but made them remove them when it came to light.
The warden also told his guards to record RA's meetings with his attys, with him facing the camera.
He also stopped that practice before the judge could issue an order.

Do I think he would fudge his answers to the D's accusations? Well, I was searching for news articles about the prison and his name came up. So my answer to my question is: Yes.

p. 21-22 of the FM. Typically a judge would put a stop to this nonsense (filming him with his attorneys). Also the warden testified it wasn’t against the rules for COs to wear patches. Why remove them at all? It’s not against the rules so why remove them?

Source:

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

 

[Ravenmoon]

Yes it doesn’t say if he was ever given the info after April 3 2023.

bbm

Attorneys for Mr. Allen delivered nearly 1,000 pages of police reports to Mr. Allen on Friday, March 24, 2023, with the intention of seeking their client's cooperation in his own defense. As of Monday, April 3'", 2023, said information has yet to be provided to Mr. Allen."

That entire statement is poorly worded.
1000 pages of police reports were delivered to Mr Allen, but as of April 3rd information has yet to be provided....messy, messy.
More word salad..

JMO

 

[Ward Thisperer]

One of the issues that JG had with Ex D is that they do mislead in motions when it can be easily proven false.
Example: their Motion to request transfer was easily proven false by testimony by the warden.
Defense stated RA’s cell was 6x10 “ no bigger than a dog kennel”
False- Cell is 8 1/2 x 12
Defense stated that RA was only being permitted to shower 1 -2 times a week
False- RA was permitted to shower 3 times a week
Defense stated he was forced to wear soiled clothing
False-RA was provided clean clothes 3 times a week and allowed to purchase additional socks, shirts and shoes.
Defense stated RA is sleeping on mattress on floor
False Cell is equipped mattress on secured bed frame
Defense stated that RA was afforded very little rec time.
False- RA is afforded one hour of rec time 5 times a week.
Defense stated that RA was not afforded any opportunity to see his wife or family members for 5 months.
False-RA was permitted to have face to face meetings with his family.

The fact far the FM was so lengthy and attachments surpassing 1200 pages was IMO by design.
Makes it more burdensome to find proof of false statements.

I find it hard to draw conclusions as to truth and falsity on all this when it is just the word of the defense vs the word of the warden. Things like “he is afforded very little if any rec time” being countered with “wrong, he gets 5 hours per week!” rings hollow to me. Being in his cell 23-24 hours per day, with a total rec time of less than 1 hour a day, in my view can certainly be called “very little” time for a presumed innocent man. Same with showering 3x per week vs 2x per week and getting his clothes washed 3x per week. I don’t see those as so different in that it shows a falsehood on the part of the defense. To me those are despicable conditions for someone not convicted of a crime. JMHO and I will say I don’t know much about how a jail setting would compare.

Also on your last example of false D claims, according to the Warden’s affidavit, he was not allowed to have face to face visits. Was it stated elsewhere that at that time he had been able to have face to face visits?

Warden John Galipeau Affidavit.pdf

drive.google.com

 

[zh0r4]

"'Both officers signed affidavits admitting they wore patches that could be associated with Odinism but were not."

They are not Odinists.

Prosecutors disputing defense attorneys' claims Delphi homicide suspect Richard Allen being mistreated in state custody

Allen's defense attorneys are asking the judge to quash a subpoena for Allen's medical records.

www.wlfi.com

p. 120-122 FM.

Source:

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

 

[FrostedGlass]

That entire statement is poorly worded.
1000 pages of police reports were delivered to Mr Allen, but as of April 3rd information has yet to be provided....messy, messy.
More word salad..

JMO

If you go read the State's response filed on April 14, you'll find it's neither messy nor word salad.

 

[steeltowngirl]

I just did a search of the defense memorandum for the word ‘alibi’. The word is used many times, but each instance is used to refute the alibis of the Odinist crowd. I could not find any mention of an alibi for RA.

Does anyone recall seeing where an alibi for RA has been offered?

 

[FrostedGlass]

p. 120-122 FM.
View attachment 463698
Source:

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

In page 2 of the docs at the bottom of your post, he mentions RA's wife being at the meeting with his attys.
That Aug. 25, 2023 date is the first and only time I've seen visitation a date mentioned.

 

[Ravenmoon]

p. 120-122 FM.
View attachment 463698
Source:

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

DELPHI: Memorandum in Support of Motion PDF | PDF | Prosecutor | Police

The statement from the guards still stands.
People wear things all the time that don't define them.
I wear a cross. I am Pagan.
None of us gets to decide what religious or spiritual path a person walks based on symbols.

JMO

 

[Ravenmoon]

I just did a search of the defense memorandum for the word ‘alibi’. The word is used many times, but each instance is used to refute the alibis of the Odinist crowd. I could not find any mention of an alibi for RA.

Does anyone recall seeing where an alibi for RA has been offered?

AFAIK he has no alibi.

JMO

 

[Jurisprudence]

One of the issues that JG had with Ex D is that they do mislead in motions when it can be easily proven false.
Example: their Motion to request transfer was easily proven false by testimony by the warden.

[sbm]

This was never proven. Warden who has a laundry list of past charges and allegations easily searchable on google said "Not true, Judge." And, Judge said "Okay." JG tells us this in the minutes.

That's not proof in my profession.

jmo