IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[iamshadow21]

@CoffindafferFBI

#JusticeforAbbyandLibby

If you are tracking the #Delphi case, please see below.

Must read on why the prosecution amended the charges #RichardAllen. (See below)

2 Major points made by this attorney:

- They should have filed these charges initially so they are basically correcting an oversight

- This leaves the door wide open that there was an accomplice.

The FBI established that #RonLogan, now deceased, killed the Abby and Libby. His home was merely 1,400 Feet from where their bodies were found. (See attached affidavit for more details)

Were Allen and Logan both involved?

There is a lot of exculpatory evidence that exists. That's just facts. And wait until the Frank's Hearing, assuming Judge Gull allows it.

Allen purportedly confessed to the murders while in Max Security Prison and if he did, was he in his right mind?

Did he Confess to anyone before his arrest? Was that how he got on law enforcement's radar? Hmmm

#Delphi
https://pdfhost.io/v/E2eHiRG68_2017_loganhttps://
wienekelaw.com/blog/reviewing-new-charges-in-delphi-case?s=09

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749607653532197356

8:39 PM · Jan 22, 2024


View attachment 476894

Coffindaffer, for someone who worked for the FBI, doesn't seem to understand the difference between probable cause for a search warrant and a 'fact'. If everyone who had a search warrant served on them was sent to prison because they for a 'fact' did crime, there'd be more inside jails than out.

RL was never charged with any crime against Abby and Libby. And they looked at him very hard.

MOO

 

[steeltowngirl]

Coffindaffer, for someone who worked for the FBI, doesn't seem to understand the difference between probable cause for a search warrant and a 'fact'. If everyone who had a search warrant served on them was sent to prison because they for a 'fact' did crime, there'd be more inside jails than out.

RL was never charged with any crime against Abby and Libby. And they looked at him very hard.

MOO

Coffindaffer is late to the party. The door to a possible accomplice was opened by prosecution at the time of RA’s arrest.

Did she just wake up and read about RL?
Old news. Let her spin on it.
I used to have a shred of respect for her.

jmo

 

[iamshadow21]

Coffindaffer is late to the party. The door to a possible accomplice was opened by prosecution at the time of RA’s arrest.

Did she just wake up and read about RL?
Old news. Let her spin on it.
I used to have a shred of respect for her.

jmo

I'm trying to think of a time I've seen her quoted on the threads where she didn't get something completely ax-backwards, and I'm struggling. Every time she opens her mouth I don't wonder that she is no longer in the FBI, but that she was ever accepted to begin with.

Every other FBI person, current or former, that I've read about or seen on TV has come across as calm, intelligent, and highly competent. I'm not saying she isn't any of those things, but the impression she gives us through posts like this is... not that.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

What does Indiana consider an acceptable amount of time for a judge to leave a motion on her desk?

The judge's opinion today answered some questions about the length of time some went without action.
Are there any more?

Here are their dates:
May 19, 2023 = Def motion to suppress fruits of search
June 13, 2023 = Def motion regarding ballistics
September 18, 2023 = Def motion for Franks hearing
October 2, 2023 = Def supplemental motion for Franks hearing

I’m assuming the case was effectively stayed during the SCOIN proceedings. Maybe someone who knows Indiana procedure can confirm that.

It would not be cool for the Judge to make rulings while SCOIN was considering whether to remove her.

 

[Willow Knight]

I just have a feeling that ( all speculation and opinion on my part) that a connection has been made finally.

I have thought that the connection was with KAK. But now, I am wondering if they were just connected by the widespread ring itself.

This is exactly where my thoughts have been, you said it better. It's possible KAK gave a lot of good information on how these SM CSAM rings work. LE investigated link after link.

The other thought I've pondered is the FM claimed no digital evidence connecting RA to the crime scene. Crime scene. However didn't RA state he was watching stocks (or something of that nature) on his cell phone while he was walking the trail or watching the fish? I would think LE saved all data from the towers.

The warrant for RL described this"
****According to Fox59, the warrant indicated data from Logan’s cell phone showed it was in Delphi near the murder scene that afternoon and was likely outside and “in the proximity” of the scene.*****

Sports

Sports news, analysis, rumors, statistics, predictions and roster moves around the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and more.

heavy.com

Edit to add: Not suggesting RL had anything to do with the crime. Only that LE should have data from the cell towers. And by RA's own admission, he was there on his cell.

 

[mrjitty]

The other thought I've pondered is the FM claimed no digital evidence connecting RA to the crime scene. Crime scene. However didn't RA state he was watching stocks (or something of that nature) on his cell phone while he was walking the trail or watching the fish? I would think LE saved all data from the towers.

The warrant for RL described this"
****According to Fox59, the warrant indicated data from Logan’s cell phone showed it was in Delphi near the murder scene that afternoon and was likely outside and “in the proximity” of the scene.*****

Sports

Sports news, analysis, rumors, statistics, predictions and roster moves around the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and more.

heavy.com

Edit to add: Not suggesting RL had anything to do with the crime. Only that LE should have data from the cell towers. And by RA's own admission, he was there on his cell.

RSBM / BBM

This is one reason why we have to be careful of what is stated in the Franks. For example, what say law enforcement have evidence showing RMs phone was turned off at 1pm, and turned back on at 5pm - not at the crime scene.

I've just made that up, but it is example of how the prosecution might hold critical digital evidence, which does not connect him to the crime scene but conflicts with his police interview - i am sure we've all seen that precise evidence in other cases.

 

[mrjitty]

Well the Franks Motion has been Denied. I guess JG had time to do some in depth reading while waiting on the SCOIN hearing.

I'm glad, the Search Warrant was solid. I bet the new, exDefense is flipping out though.

View attachment 476840

JMO

Wow.

Surprised there is no hearing. I hope the Judge intends to provide full reasons.

I had some sympathy for a Shay Hughes argument way back when Franks first dropped (on Murder Sheet I think), that SW is a low bar, and prosecution had enough for PC, but there does have to be punishment if the prosecution actually did intend to mislead the court in the SW PCA - otherwise they will keep doing it.

But hard to form any view on where the line is without the reasoning to show what findings the Judge has made.

 

[Salah11]

Wow.

Surprised there is no hearing. I hope the Judge intends to provide full reasons.

I had some sympathy for a Shay Hughes argument way back when Franks first dropped (on Murder Sheet I think), that SW is a low bar, and prosecution had enough for PC, but there does have to be punishment if the prosecution actually did intend to mislead the court in the SW PCA - otherwise they will keep doing it.

But hard to form any view on where the line is without the reasoning to show what findings the Judge has made.

Why would there be a hearing ?

A hearing isn’t granted for every motion made , there has to be enough to warrant a hearing to my understanding .

 

[TL4S]

Coffindaffer is late to the party. The door to a possible accomplice was opened by prosecution at the time of RA’s arrest.

Did she just wake up and read about RL?
Old news. Let her spin on it.
I used to have a shred of respect for her.

jmo

Cara W made the same point about a possible accomplice, but put it in terms of liability, rather than naming such an accomplice's name. CW also said this was just correcting an oversight.

Makes me less inclined to think the P plans to pursue the DP, and more that they are giving themselves some leeway because they can't prove RA acted alone (whether they identified an actual accomplice, or not). But for his charges, it doesn't matter. Jmo.

I still feel the same, they just need to prove RA was the man on the bridge, so the D bringing other names to the CS has no bearing. SODDI? Possibly, but for his trial, if RA is BG, it's done.

If I lived in Delphi, I would not feel good about this. From Nov 2021 when NMcL first said they had "good reason to believe" there could be others involved, to now, the idea that there was another person involved has never been taken off the table. I hope that if they can prove RA is guilty, that they can also give enough at trial to not leave the community and families hanging on this matter.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Coffindaffer is late to the party. The door to a possible accomplice was opened by prosecution at the time of RA’s arrest.

Did she just wake up and read about RL?
Old news. Let her spin on it.
I used to have a shred of respect for her.

jmo

Yeah, I had a modicum of respect for her too about 15 minutes long. I think she got caught up in the 'celebrity' of this along with the Defense and Appellate Lawyers, and the oh so many bloggers, podcasters and talking TV head twits.

They all seemed to have forgotten the actual innocent victims here, Abbigal Williams and Liberty German, of this horrendous crime.

I'm sick of hearing about the Judge, The Defendant, The Lawyers (all of them). I'd be thrilled to see this case focus again on the actual crime, the victims, and trial for obtaining justice for those victims.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Wow.

Surprised there is no hearing. I hope the Judge intends to provide full reasons.

I had some sympathy for a Shay Hughes argument way back when Franks first dropped (on Murder Sheet I think), that SW is a low bar, and prosecution had enough for PC, but there does have to be punishment if the prosecution actually did intend to mislead the court in the SW PCA - otherwise they will keep doing it.

But hard to form any view on where the line is without the reasoning to show what findings the Judge has made.

I'm not surprised by JG ruling. The request for Franks Hearing was denied based on their outlandish Franks Memo, she didn't have to hold a hearing about her ruling. She made a ruling based on the submission of the D's perception of purported facts.

The bar to toss a search warrant is high and not common, JG found reasonable, probable cause by the State for a warrant after RA's Oct 22 interview at police HQ's, despite the fanfic FM by the Defense.

JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Why would there be a hearing ?

A hearing isn’t granted for every motion made , there has to be enough to warrant a hearing to my understanding .

The Judge obviously agrees but there is a bit of tension between the huge effort behind the Franks, and the Judge's talk of scheduling a hearing, and then just to decide it without a hearing.

But like I said, seeing we don't have access to the underlying exhibits, its hard to assess whether there was enough there. I am hopeful she will drop full reasoning so it is clear why the arguments failed.

 

[TL4S]

Yeah, I had a modicum of respect for her too about 15 minutes long. I think she got caught up in the 'celebrity' of this along with the Defense and Appellate Lawyers, and the oh so many bloggers, podcasters and talking TV head twits.

They all seemed to have forgotten the actual innocent victims here, Abbigal Williams and Liberty German, of this horrendous crime.

I'm sick of hearing about the Judge, The Defendant, The Lawyers (all of them). I'd be thrilled to see this case focus again on the actual crime, the victims, and trial for obtaining justice for those victims.

MOO

I stopped listening to Condiffer during the G Petito case, after she insisted that BL's parents had sent him to another country during their search for him. I was convinced he was dead in the reserve, and he was.

But now that more details have emerged through the civil trial, I sort of see why the idea existed (beyond the typical theorizing). So while she still isn't my favorite person, I do think she has insight and reasons for what she says, and doesn't need to be summarily dismissed. In Delphi, we all know at least one FBI agent found probable cause to think RL was the killer, per the affidavit. He was one line of investigation, among with KAK, the Rushville gang, etc.

I kind of wonder if, like Click still suspects his guys, the FBI still leans towards RL. Just a thought I find interesting. Wonder if anyone in LE still thinks KAK knows who the killer is. A differeing in opinion won't matter, though, if the P's evidence against RA is solid enough. Jmo.

 

[zh0r4]

Why would there be a hearing ?

A hearing isn’t granted for every motion made , there has to be enough to warrant a hearing to my understanding .

IMO a hearing was expected because Gull said on the record she would hold these hearings if Scremin & Lebrato decided to pursue, on the record. This reflects an even more obvious bias, as these were hearings she was allegedly going to hold for Scremin & Lebrato, but immediately strikes down for Rozzi and Baldwin.

Pics related, from the official record linked below.

Bbm

10/26/2023:
“Defendant's Motion to Suppress and Supplemental Motions to Suppress, as well as the State's Responses, will be set for hearing upon resolution of the defense Franks Motions.”

11/2/2023:
“Court encourages former attorneys to cooperate with Attorneys Scremin and Lebrato for the benefit of the defendant. Court notes two (2) pending motions (Motion to Suppress, Motion for Franks Hearing) and will await a report from Attorneys Scremin and Lebrato and Prosecuting Attorney McLeland regarding hearing dates.”

11/14/2023:
“If defendant's new counsel inform the Court they intend to pursue the Franks Motion, the Court will schedule a hearing.”.

JMO.

EDIT: to add X link from Cara Wieneke about this

“The second business day after Attorneys Baldwin and Rozzi are reinstated as counsel, the motion for a Franks hearing and to suppress evidence is denied.

This is notable, because the court had twice indicated to Richard Allen's local attorneys that they would receive a hearing on the motions.”

https://x.com/wienekelo/status/1749571950865768701?s=46&t=rlxmmTQVKLhzP78ILfWjKQ

Source:

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[FrostedGlass]

I’m assuming the case was effectively stayed during the SCOIN proceedings. Maybe someone who knows Indiana procedure can confirm that.

It would not be cool for the Judge to make rulings while SCOIN was considering whether to remove her.

The last order she issued was signed on 11/01/2023. There was no SCOIN prior to that.

Again, here are their dates:
May 19, 2023 = Def motion to suppress fruits of search
June 13, 2023 = Def motion regarding ballistics
September 18, 2023 = Def motion for Franks hearing
October 2, 2023 = Def supplemental motion for Franks hearing

 

[mrjitty]

The last order she issued was signed on 11/01/2023. There was no SCOIN prior to that.

Again, here are their dates:
May 19, 2023 = Def motion to suppress fruits of search
June 13, 2023 = Def motion regarding ballistics
September 18, 2023 = Def motion for Franks hearing
October 2, 2023 = Def supplemental motion for Franks hearing

Whatever you think about the hot mess this trial is in, from when she advised on oct 19th meeting in Chambers what the progress on Franks was - 3 months was then lost by the combo of removing counsel and then SCOIN

I agree the pace in general is glacial, but at least on Franks the Judge has had it from Sept 18-Oct 19, then ruled just 4 days after SCOIN

What a mess.

 

[mrjitty]

So I am going to lay my bet that any hope of a speedy trial is gone now.

Presumably the defence will now apply to recuse the Judge, and appeal this Franks decision.

I am guessing there is no way Gull intends to recuse, unless this was her parting shot. So that will need to be appealed as well.

But also I thought the Judge would play the game extremely fastidiously from here on out. Wrong again.

 

[steeltowngirl]

If I lived in Delphi, I would not feel good about this. From Nov 2021 when NMcL first said they had "good reason to believe" there could be others involved, to now, the idea that there was another person involved has never been taken off the table. I hope that if they can prove RA is guilty, that they can also give enough at trial to not leave the community and families hanging on this matter.

^Especially this.
Add in the D exposing a possible violent Odinist circle of their peers and community members who are out to kidnap and sacrifice their children. Still running loose! Can you imagine living in Delphi with that knowledge? /s.

NMcL wasn’t the first to hint at accomplice(s). There were the two sketches, which were craftily explained away, but left a question mark in the minds of many here, and I am sure in the minds of the Delphi community.

Capt. David Bursten of ISP hinted back in early March 2017 that the voice and the image from the DTH tape could be two different suspects. (They were not making assumptions that it was one suspect.)
at 7:40:

 

[Salah11]

I find it fascinating that his lawyers are partly to blame for the leaks of photos of two deceased children and yet so many seem to want to give them a free pass. Then painting the judge like an evil witch. I seriously don’t understand it.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Whatever you think about the hot mess this trial is in, from when she advised on oct 19th meeting in Chambers what the progress on Franks was - 3 months was then lost by the combo of removing counsel and then SCOIN

I agree the pace in general is glacial, but at least on Franks the Judge has had it from Sept 18-Oct 19, then ruled just 4 days after SCOIN

What a mess.

She was still making rulings on Nov 1. I wasn't even talking about the months she couldn't rule.

I totally agree with you that it's a mess.
IMO the Indiana Supreme Court decision seems to have boldened her.
IMO she's on the bench until if/when she decides to leave.
IMO she needs to go
IMO they need to get RA out of prison