IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[mrjitty]

I don’t see FG attempting to disqualify attorneys that were just reinstated by SCOIN. She would recuse before she would try that.

jmo

Motta was envisaging a situation where SCOIN reinstated them simply on procedural grounds, saying Gull has to hold a hearing. I agree it's unlikely.

 

[FrostedGlass]

We've never heard the circumstances under which RA said he wanted to kill himself. Was it after they transferred him from ISP post to Delphi, then to White Co., then to Westville?

When he didn't cooperate with ISP, did someone ask him: "Hey little buddy... how to do feel about your new home now?" I suppose a lot of people would say they would rather die than live that way but don't really intend to kill themselves.

I don't believe they are keeping RA in solitary for all these months for his own good.
This is contrary to the long, long list of articles addressing solitary confinement and suicide.

 

[Salah11]

I knew when the ruling against the FM was denied people would be upset. I was upset when the exD were reinstated, but I took it in stride and continued to post respectfully of others opinions. I was hoping we could do the same here.

#Justic4Abby&Libby

MOO

I love your posts and think you are a breath of fresh air on this topic . You are always very insightful

 

[Cyber sleuth]

IMO a hearing was expected because Gull said on the record she would hold these hearings if Scremin & Lebrato decided to pursue, on the record. This reflects an even more obvious bias, as these were hearings she was allegedly going to hold for Scremin & Lebrato, but immediately strikes down for Rozzi and Baldwin.

Pics related, from the official record linked below.

Bbm

10/26/2023:
“Defendant's Motion to Suppress and Supplemental Motions to Suppress, as well as the State's Responses, will be set for hearing upon resolution of the defense Franks Motions.”

11/2/2023:
“Court encourages former attorneys to cooperate with Attorneys Scremin and Lebrato for the benefit of the defendant. Court notes two (2) pending motions (Motion to Suppress, Motion for Franks Hearing) and will await a report from Attorneys Scremin and Lebrato and Prosecuting Attorney McLeland regarding hearing dates.”

11/14/2023:
“If defendant's new counsel inform the Court they intend to pursue the Franks Motion, the Court will schedule a hearing.”.

JMO.

EDIT: to add X link from Cara Wieneke about this

“The second business day after Attorneys Baldwin and Rozzi are reinstated as counsel, the motion for a Franks hearing and to suppress evidence is denied.

This is notable, because the court had twice indicated to Richard Allen's local attorneys that they would receive a hearing on the motions.”

https://x.com/wienekelo/status/1749571950865768701?s=46&t=rlxmmTQVKLhzP78ILfWjKQ

Source:

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

I think that the if Scremin and Lebrato had felt the FM held water and pursued it, they would have gotten the same ruling with no hearing. I think she was stating they had the option to pursue ( she hasn’t finished reviewing it yet) but ultimately they didn’t pursue it. Perhaps they didn’t because it was riddled with false/unfounded proclamations.
I think JG is capable of ruling without bias but I think defense will need to practice ethically.

 

[Cyber sleuth]

We've never heard the circumstances under which RA said he wanted to kill himself. Was it after they transferred him from ISP post to Delphi, then to White Co., then to Westville?

When he didn't cooperate with ISP, did someone ask him: "Hey little buddy... how to do feel about your new home now?" I suppose a lot of people would say they would rather die than live that way but don't really intend to kill themselves.

I don't believe they are keeping RA in solitary for all these months for his own good.
This is contrary to the long, long list of articles addressing solitary confinement and suicide.

IMO
Threatening suicide aligns with the pattern of behaviors with this type of bad faith actor.
I would not be surprised if this wasn’t a method of control that he had used within his family system.

 

[TL4S]

Motta makes an interesting point in his latest podcast with Shay Hughes

He wouldn't have been surprised if, in a prelim style hearing, Gull had denied a full evidentiary hearing on the Franks, because if you take out the potentially dubious statements from Ligget, there is still enough there, so the defence can't win, even if they prove what they allege. But to do it without even a prelim hearing on it, in this context is odd. He doesn't practice in Indiana though.

Hughes made a good followup point. If Allen's attorneys made incorrect claims - Gull doesn't say this. She just gave this tiny order.

As you all know, I am not fan of the Franks, and think it was a huge risk to include all that Odinist stuff when they could have played with a straight bat, but it does seem bizarre to dismiss all of it with no hearing and no reasoning.

Surely there are going to be full reasons given?

Or not? Like if not, that doesn't sit well with me.

I'm listening to this podcast right now and am not finished yet, but it's very interesting to hear their perspectives.

I have to say that I don't think JG is going to give a detailed reason for her order. We haven't seen her do that before, have we? She just enters it into the docket, as she's done here. In this case, she didn't even wait for the Supreme Court's full explanation.

 

[FrostedGlass]

To anyone who is interested in Indiana Supreme Court's disciplinary decisions, here they are.
Click "discipline" in the drop-down box.

Appellate Decisions - Appellate Decisions

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

 

[FrostedGlass]

IMO
Threatening suicide aligns with the pattern of behaviors with this type of bad faith actor.
I would not be surprised if this wasn’t a method of control that he had used within his family system.

I can see where it could be used to control family but what's the benefit for him to do it in prison?

 

[mrjitty]

I'm listening to this podcast right now and am not finished yet, but it's very interesting to hear their perspectives.

I have to say that I don't think JG is going to give a detailed reason for her order. We haven't seen her do that before, have we? She just enters it into the docket, as she's done here. In this case, she didn't even wait for the Supreme Court's full explanation.

Yes Hughes thinks there won’t be reasons.

That seems bizarre to me

 

[somequestions]

Does anyone else here think that Allen’s jailhouse confessions to his wife and mother might have contained incriminating information known only to the killer? Maybe now there are some blanks filled in? Or confirmation?

If the confessions do contain information only known to the killer, then no matter how many Odinist third party defenses the defense attorneys puts forth, Richard Allen will probably be convicted. Or if they found DNA or blood from Abigail Williams or Liberty German in his car, then he will also probably be convicted. Or if they found clothing from Abby or Libby at his home during the search, he will probably be convicted. Or maybe this case comes down to the expert testimony of toolmark striations on ejected unspent cartridges?

That is the strange part about this case. Maybe it is because Baldwin and Rozzi are defense attorneys trying to provide the best defense to their client, but if any of the things I put forth are true, I think there is a high probability of conviction in this case if the state has any of this evidence. On the other hand, if they do not have any of that evidence and the prosecution is going to try with toolmark evidence from a bullet, confessions that may not have any detailed information, and some eyewitnesses who cannot make up their mind about who they saw out on the Monon High Bridge trail that day, then this case is a 50/50 toss up case. If you are a defense attorney, I think you want to take on a case like this if the state does not have any definitive evidence.

The only part that sways me about Richard Allen's possible guilt right now is the unspent cartridge found at the crime scene that LE says they matched to his gun. The witnesses do nothing to convince me. If the defense is smart, for every witness the state puts forth, the defense can counter with, "Did you see my client with the two victims?" "Did you see my client pull a gun on any two girls on the Monon High Bridge?" "Did you see my client with any two teenage girls at all in the entire time you were at the Monon High Bridge trail?" "No further questions." and then take a seat. The witnesses in this case would have absolutely no bearing to me if I was on the jury if the answer to all those questions was no, especially if the defense is smart enough to ask those questions, which I think they are.

It all depends on what evidence the prosecution has against Richard Allen. As many people have pointed out, we will not know that until trial. That is what I want to know, what is all the evidence against Richard Allen? What did he say in his confessions?

 

[TL4S]

I can see where it could be used to control family but what's the benefit for him to do it in prison?

RA's original defense counsel said he had a long standing issue with depression, didn't they? If that's accurate, I can see suicide being on the table regardless of guilt or innocence. There's also the references to medications.

 

[mrjitty]

Hughes had some interesting comments about whether the prosecutors office has enough experience and resources for this case.

I must say I wish there was a way to reverse the talking ratio between Motta and Hughes. Unfortunately you have to wait 10 mins at a time for Hughes to get a sentence in.

 

[TL4S]

Hughes had some interesting comments about whether the prosecutors office has enough experience and resources for this case.

I must say I there was a way to reverse the talking ratio between Motta and Hughes. Unfortunately you have to wait 10 mins at a time for Hughes to get a sentence in.

Ha, yeah, it puts me in edge watching the two of them. I was so hoping DD would have SH on about this latest stuff, so I was thrilled to see it this morning, but unfortunately, SH is slower to get his thoughts across, and BM can't handle a second of silence, so it's not a very balanced act.

 

[mrjitty]

Ha, yeah, it puts me in edge watching the two of them. I was so hoping DD would have SH on about this latest stuff, so I was thrilled to see it this morning, but unfortunately, SH is slower to get his thoughts across, and BM can't handle a second of silence, so it's not a very balanced act.

It reminds me of corporate conference zooms where there is a specialist who actually knows stuff, and a manager who likes to talk endlessly - so frustrating. And please master the art of listening and following up! Hughes made an interesting comment about how he thought one of the defence motions was weak and poorly done - please dig into that!

 

[FrostedGlass]

RA's original defense counsel said he had a long standing issue with depression, didn't they? If that's accurate, I can see suicide being on the table regardless of guilt or innocence. There's also the references to medications.

Would the Army National Guard accept him if he suffered from clinical depression?
I know elderly folks who suffer from depression but don't try to commit suicide.

What I don't understand how solitary confinement helps his depression OR suicidal thoughts.
They aren't even letting him outside in his new prison.

Something was said about Westville meds but I don't remember what.
The investigator who went with Scremin wrote that he received a variety of meds but had not seen a Dr. at his new location.

 

[Allynator]

I wish I had the time to keep up with this case more thoroughly. Regardless of the hubbub surrounding this case, the end goal remains the same. Justice for those sweet girls.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

In this discussion with The Prosecutors, Bob Motta says “the word on the street” is to expect the SCOIN opinion within 2 weeks.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

It’s also interesting to hear a group of attorneys discuss the demand for a speedy trial. While DD believes the speedy trial demand was genuine they admit that the 136 motion is somewhat inconsistent with wanting to issue the speedy trial demand. But at the same time I don’t know that they would have thought when they got that signed in August with the plan to issue it in early November to lock in the trial date that they would still be waiting for the hearing.

I wonder what the next steps for B&R will be.
Will they file another motion for JG to recuse herself?
Will they file a request for an interlocutory appeal (which JG would need to certify)?
Will they argue that she shouldn’t have issued those decisions that she just issued because now that they have been put back on the case the motion for recusal that they filed in October needs to be ruled upon before anything else?
Will they issue the speedy trial demand to just try to get this in front of a jury rather than mess around with JG any longer?
Will they wait until we have the opinion to take any action?

Bob Motta and Shay Hughes discussing the orders from JG - DENIED! Judge Gull denies all of Rick Allen's pending motions!
Shay Hughes argues that JG doesn't cite the correct standard for a SW.
JG: "The Court finds the Affidavit submitted in support of the issuance of the search warrant contained information that a reasonable belief existed that evidence of the murders would be found in the defendant's home and vehicles. The Court does not find that the Affidavit submitted false statements or that the Affiant omitted statements with reckless disregard, nor does the Court find that the Affiant intended to mislead the Judge by failing to present information."
Standard for SW: "Probable cause: The officer should give reasonable information to support the possibility that the evidence of illegality will be found. Such information may come from the officer’ personal observations or that of an informant. If the warrant lacks accurate information as to what will be searched, the search is unlawful."

search warrant

www.law.cornell.edu

above BBM.

SH argues that "reasonable belief" =/= "reasonable information".

They also bring up that JG doesn't cite any case law around her decision. She invokes case law, but doesn't bother actually citing any cases.
JG: "As the Court has found the Affidavit for issuance of the search warrant was valid, the search itself was reasonable and legal under Indiana law and Fourth Amendment case law."

 

[photographer4]

It appears that:

Judge Gull today reversed her 11/14/2023 Orders regarding setting hearings for Suppress Motion and Franks Motion under Scremin and Lebrato:



also:


And Gull agreed today to schedule hearing for the Transfer Motion originated by Scremin and Lebrato.

JMHO

HOld on, so she was willing to give a hearing to the new Defence on Franks, but has refused to do so for the former (current again) defence???

 

[photographer4]

This is the problem, imo. She is likely very capable of ruling fairly, but now with all the baggage between her and the D team, the "appearance" of bias is going to be like a scar to this case if she doesn't recuse. Will it be an issue, or not? IDK, but it seems a dangerous game to play.

This judge is on her high horse, and has a very clear bias against AB and BR. At this point, why bother holding a trial at all when she is not going to hear a thing they have to say??

 

[TL4S]

This judge is on her high horse, and has a very clear bias against AB and BR. At this point, why bother holding a trial at all when she is not going to hear a thing they have to say??

IMOO, her appearance of bias is compounded by the manner in which she has administered her decisions, minus any hearings, giving the look that she has no time for AB and BR. Some folks might not care because they themselves are dismissive of the D team due to their tactics, but JG seems to be playing the same "insubordination" game, when it comes to due process. JMO.

And what about the alleged omissions in the PCA? And the misfiling of RA's tip narrative back in 2017? And the leaks? And four court-appointed defense attorneys all in agreement about the need for improved housing conditions and access to their constitutionally innocent client? Where is the professionalism I would expect throughout the entire process? It is disheartening, I admit. Jmo.