IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #174

[Salah11]

<modsnip> This isn't a one sided case. Its only appearing that way because of gag orders (originally LE and now JG) and lack of hearings / written decisions by the judge.

We all know I believe he is guilty but it’s a lot more than just he confessed. He has admitted he wore the same clothes as BG , he was placed on that first platform moments before the girls arrived. There are many reasons he looks guilty and it’s not just he simply made confessions to his family. From the little we have been allowed to see he looks as guilty as sin in my eyes. I don’t believe in some grand conspiracy.

He just seems like a pathetic small man <modsnip> with a drink problem and that day did something absolutely abhorrent and got away with it for years because he blended in.

IMO MOO and all that jazz!&

 

[Justice101]

We all know I believe he is guilty but it’s a lot more than just he confessed. He has admitted he wore the same clothes as BG , he was placed on that first platform moments before the girls arrived. There are many reasons he looks guilty and it’s not just he simply made confessions to his family. From the little we have been allowed to see he looks as guilty as sin in my eyes. I don’t believe in some grand conspiracy.

He just seems like a pathetic small man <modsnip> with a drink problem and that day did something absolutely abhorrent and got away with it for years because he blended in.

IMO MOO and all that jazz!&

bingo!

 

[Willow Knight]

I am adamantly opposed to keeping people on remand for extended periods without at least a bail hearing and prelim.

This is a difficult position, one can be a strong supporter of the constitution, and hate the actions of violent people. Especially when innocent lives are taken, especially a child's life.

We do have the right to a speedy trial. So in essence, there is an avenue for an accused to take so they do not waste months and years waiting for trial. The D and accused for reason known to them have not filed, due to reasons/excuses known to them. My point is our justice system does have in place a procedure to avoid long periods in jail waiting for trial.

 

[Emma Peel]

Q: who does JG answer to in her capacity as a trial judge? Is it only the SCION or the AG?

US Everywhere:
Judges are independent, answering to no one by design.
Appellate courts, also independent, conduct decision reviews.

IMO & Quick (safe) assumptions:
- that Indiana judicial conduct panels exist ... like the lawyer's bar.
- that Indiana legislative govt has a judge-impeachment process ...

JMHO

 

[TL4S]

This is a difficult position, one can be a strong supporter of the constitution, and hate the actions of violent people. Especially when innocent lives are taken, especially a child's life.

We do have the right to a speedy trial. So in essence, there is an avenue for an accused to take so they do not waste months and years waiting for trial. The D and accused for reason known to them have not filed, due to reasons/excuses known to them. My point is our justice system does have in place a procedure to avoid long periods in jail waiting for trial.

Unfortunately, in this case, four court-appointed public defenders all agree that they have been unable to provide effective counsel to their client due to his housing situation, yet the court has done nothing for over a year. That's a basic violation of his rights, even if he's guilty as sin. Jmo.

 

[tlcya]

I would agree, that KAK likely does not know who the actual killers are. I also feel that his AS account was the means by which the killers knew the girls would be there. I say killers, because I without a doubt believe there is more than one involved in this horrible crime.

With regard to it being “hard for police to know which avenue to pursue,” I’m sure some of them knew exactly which avenue to pursue and were stymied by others. There is ample evidence that there are at least two occult/secret “brotherhoods” active in the Delphi area and beyond, one of which counsels it’s members that it has an obligation to protect a “brother” even if it means to perjure oneself. How exactly are honest investigators able to properly investigate and follow through when they are possibly being thwarted by members of this brotherhood that are also colleagues? Quite frankly, this is why this case stinks and why it’s driving everyone crazy. Until you can identify the members and put the puzzle pieces together, none of it will ever make any sense. Not only that, there may NEVER be justice for Abby and Libby which is a crying shame! If RA is found guilty of something he did NOT do, there is no justice for the girls either.

JMHO as always.

Emphasis by tlcya

The problem as I see it is this:

What is this ample evidence you reference? Because many of us haven't seen it. All we have see IMO is a Franks Motion which ALLEGES such evidence exists. Do you have links to the evidence? Or it just the Franks Motion with its allegations? Because in my mind, evidence and allegation are two entirely different animals. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Curious, what other cases are you interested in solving/conviction?

Me, there are really just 3:
1) Moscow, ID student murders
2) Delphi IN murders of 2 teens
3) Gilgo Beach serial killer

For me this case and Morphew

For me Moscow and Gilgo are too open and shut

 

[mrjitty]

This is a difficult position, one can be a strong supporter of the constitution, and hate the actions of violent people. Especially when innocent lives are taken, especially a child's life.

We do have the right to a speedy trial. So in essence, there is an avenue for an accused to take so they do not waste months and years waiting for trial. The D and accused for reason known to them have not filed, due to reasons/excuses known to them. My point is our justice system does have in place a procedure to avoid long periods in jail waiting for trial.

Yes agreed. Also defence counsel could apply for Bail.

But of course the practical realities are a bit different. I can think of one case in particular where the defence took huge risks in 'winning' the bail hearing because it pinned them down to a version in the first days and long before they heard the witness evidence

Remand has been hugely problematic for 100s of years

 

[susiQ]

Emphasis by tlcya

The problem as I see it is this:

What is this ample evidence you reference? Because many of us haven't seen it. All we have see IMO is a Franks Motion which ALLEGES such evidence exists. Do you have links to the evidence? Or it just the Franks Motion with its allegations? Because in my mind, evidence and allegation are two entirely different animals. JMO

You’re right in pointing out that the use of the word evidence, is likely not the best word to describe what I’m referring to. However, in the case of the FM, it was based on discovery which I would consider “evidence,” evidence that is being ignored by some LE, the P, and JG for that matter. The rest deals with “connections” between people that belong to the same “brotherhood” or some to more than one. IMOO there is a good reason many things in this case don’t make sense. Secrecy and a conspiracy to protect someone. As I have said before, this can’t be fleshed out here. My hope is, SOMEONE can and will at trial if it ever gets there. JMHO

 

[mrjitty]

Motta, who seems to have very good access to the defence, appeared to give away a nuance of the trial strategy in his conversation with Hughes yesterday.

We are all familiar with the franks odinist theory - but Motta seemed to suggest at trial the focus will be slightly different. So it's not so much that those odinist guys with the facebook posts did it, but rather that police officers investigating think they might have

I can see how that has more legs, because you are not directly trying to prove a crazy sounding cult conspiracy, but rather focussing on divisions within the investigation where some of the investigators think it was shut down too soon. More like the usual SODDI angle.

 

[tlcya]

You’re right in pointing out that the use of the word evidence, is likely not the best word to describe what I’m referring to. However, in the case of the FM, it was based on discovery which I would consider “evidence,” evidence that is being ignored by some LE, the P, and JG for that matter. The rest deals with “connections” between people that belong to the same “brotherhood” or some to more than one. IMOO there is a good reason many things in this case don’t make sense. Secrecy and a conspiracy to protect someone. As I have said before, this can’t be fleshed out here. My hope is, SOMEONE can and will at trial if it ever gets there. JMHO

thanks for your response. I appreciate your POV even as it differs so much from mine.

To me, the FM is simply one side's interpretation of the discovery. Without having actually seen that discovery or evidence myself, I can't take it on faith that it is being interpreted accurately or if it is being spun for an agenda that doesn't serve justice. MOO

 

[susiQ]

It is in multiple MSM articles that he smashed the tablet he used to make calls and send texts, that before he broke it he made about two calls a day.

MOO

Well, it wouldn’t be the first time MSM got things wrong. Who supplied the multiple networks with the story? They all likely got it from the same source. The guards, the prison warden, LE or anyone else interested in furthering a narrative? Did they exaggerate? The source…..matters. JMO

 

[iamshadow21]

Well, it wouldn’t be the first time MSM got things wrong. Who supplied the multiple networks with the story? They all likely got it from the same source. The guards, the prison warden, LE or anyone else interested in furthering a narrative? Did they exaggerate? The source…..matters. JMO

What narrative is furthered by saying he made phonecalls on a tablet when he made it on a fixed phone? I'm confused by what you're trying to prove or disprove, here. You asked how he made the phone calls, I supplied the answer, taken from sources allowed here. And regardless of what you think of the media, the original source was court documents. Do you really think prison staff and LE would perjure themselves over something like that?

Letters from jail: Prison guards accused of calling Richard Allen ‘kid killer,’ wife had to abandon home for safety

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — In a letter written to the Carroll County Clerk, dated April 11, an inmate at Westville Correctional Facility claimed that Richard Allen was being abused and mistreated by in…

fox59.com

Richard Allen's phone call to his wife: 4 things we learned from Delphi court docs

Here are four key things we learned from the release of hundreds of pages of documents in the Delphi murders.

www.indystar.com

Delphi double murder suspect allegedly confessed several times in jail call with wife: Court documents

Delphi, Indiana, double murder suspect Richard Allen allegedly confessed to the killings several times.

abcnews.go.com

MOO

 

[Salah11]

It’s funny how he confessed multiples times and then low and behold his lawyers two days later claim “ mental health” issues. Thats quite a coincidence

<modsnip: no source link for information stated as fact>


IMO

 

[susiQ]

What narrative is furthered by saying he made phonecalls on a tablet when he made it on a fixed phone? I'm confused by what you're trying to prove or disprove, here. You asked how he made the phone calls, I supplied the answer, taken from sources allowed here. And regardless of what you think of the media, the original source was court documents. Do you really think prison staff and LE would perjure themselves over something like that?

Letters from jail: Prison guards accused of calling Richard Allen ‘kid killer,’ wife had to abandon home for safety

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — In a letter written to the Carroll County Clerk, dated April 11, an inmate at Westville Correctional Facility claimed that Richard Allen was being abused and mistreated by in…

fox59.com

Richard Allen's phone call to his wife: 4 things we learned from Delphi court docs

Here are four key things we learned from the release of hundreds of pages of documents in the Delphi murders.

www.indystar.com

Delphi double murder suspect allegedly confessed several times in jail call with wife: Court documents

Delphi, Indiana, double murder suspect Richard Allen allegedly confessed to the killings several times.

abcnews.go.com

MOO

No need to be confused. I did not ask you what he used to make the calls, merely questioning the “story” of his actions of destroying the tablet and what all else was written. I do not necessarily take everything written by MSM as the gospel truth, that’s all. All MHO.

 

[girlhasnoname]

ETA: as someone clarified he used his tablet to place the calls being discussed.

We don't know any context about when / where / how the calls were placed or even if he dialed the numbers himself. We don't know what was said specifically. A lot of assumptions are being made because the prosecution says "he confessed in phone calls". Useless without a lot more information.

Even if we remove my question about duress (eg: could he have made the calls while being stared at by an Odin guard from the other side of the bars) - removing Odins completely here - and we still don't know - was he offered dinner? A shower? Time outside his cell? Was there some incentive presented by staff that we don't know about that lead him to make those calls?

<modsnip> This isn't a one sided case. Its only appearing that way because of gag orders (originally LE and now JG) and lack of hearings / written decisions by the judge.

<modsnip: Quoted post was modsnipped>

As far as lack of hearings, there is not a requirement that every Motion ruled on by the Judge have a hearing. If that were the case, the court systems would be backed up until forever.

This is going to be resolved in a courtroom with a jury of RA's peers to consider the evidence in totality for a verdict of guilt or innocence. Thankfully and rightfully so.

We just have to stay sane in the meantime. LOL

JMO

 

[arielilane]

Coffindaffer, for someone who worked for the FBI, doesn't seem to understand the difference between probable cause for a search warrant and a 'fact'. If everyone who had a search warrant served on them was sent to prison because they for a 'fact' did crime, there'd be more inside jails than out.

RL was never charged with any crime against Abby and Libby. And they looked at him very hard.

MOO

I wouldn't begin to answer for a retired FBI agent, however, I disagree with your statement (bbm).

In addition, do you have a link that would confirm RL was looked at very hard, and, if so, it's greatly appreciated. I wasn't able to locate an article, and wasn't privy to those details, and RL is deceased now so did the investigation stop at that point? TIA

 

[TL4S]

Motta, who seems to have very good access to the defence, appeared to give away a nuance of the trial strategy in his conversation with Hughes yesterday.

We are all familiar with the franks odinist theory - but Motta seemed to suggest at trial the focus will be slightly different. So it's not so much that those odinist guys with the facebook posts did it, but rather that police officers investigating think they might have

I can see how that has more legs, because you are not directly trying to prove a crazy sounding cult conspiracy, but rather focussing on divisions within the investigation where some of the investigators think it was shut down too soon. More like the usual SODDI angle.

Indeed. We even have Click telling MS and BMcD that nobody in LE thinks it was a ritual sacrifice, but that he basically agrees about the rest of it.

 

[Emma Peel]

Indeed. We even have Click telling MS and BMcD that nobody in LE thinks it was a ritual sacrifice, but that he basically agrees about the rest of it.

I've felt there were (still are) a lot of folk pounding keyboards insisting ritual sacrifice was the defense's SODDI motive ... when to my reading, the FM made it clear it was only the appearance of a ritual that led FBI down the road of Odenist investigation. JMHO.

Bottom line, people don't read (briefs) and social media is the (real) devil. (more JMHO.)

 

[Ravenmoon]

Just in case anyone isn't aware Judge Gull never asked to be assigned to this case. The SCOIN assigned this task to her because Diener was afraid to do it.

I don't believe that she was likely overjoyed at the news. Still, she accepted the task and worked on it without complaint.

Judge Gull worked as a prosecutor for sex crimes against women and children and finished that part of her career with prosecuting other high profile crimes including homicides and arson.

She has been charitable and had an honorable career.

Has she made some bad calls in the Delphi case? Yeah. Still, she is working on it after a lot of scrutiny and drama and is not cowering in fear over threats.


If she feels the need to recuse, I respect that. If she decides to continue, I respect that even more.


Judge Frances C. Gull | Trellis