Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[margarita25]

Hey there Raja! I had to work all day, and am coming in as blank slate for any new escapades from TB, and it may be I am in the wrong thread, for sure. He has a new coffee venture?

This is a down right a strange murder and SA. On the surface it seems simple enough he spent some time drinking at hot shots, in the same strip mall as Catholic Supply, and he went out looking. He didn’t get too far before finding a perfect place. It’s hard to imagine it could be that simplistic, but it could be. Urg.

The hat. The age. I still can’t overlook it. Can you help with the coffee angle?

So thinking out loud/bouncing ifff this, HUGE STRETCH:

IF TB is BG, and I say with a big “IF”, could he have been scoping out potential coffee shop locations for lease, etc in the Delphi area? Nah, too huge of a stretch, moo? Just sayin fwiw.

—-

I'm just reading on the TB thread. Good article.

Catholic Supply suspect requests public defender

Shortly before the shooting, Bruce visited the Hotshots sports bar in the same shopping plaza, said Amanda Hodge, a regular customer who lives in the Metro East.

Hodge was sharing a meal with a friend at the bar when Bruce sat next her and tried to cut in on their conversation, asking if he could buy their food and drinks, she said. She declined and turned back to her friend but Bruce cut in again to ask for her first name, which she gave.

“Then I said, ‘What’s yours?’” Hodge said. “He hesitated before he said, ‘Thomas.’”

Bruce, who told Hodge he was not trying to flirt with her, continued to interrupt Hodge as she tried to talk to her friend, saying, “Mandy, you have a beautiful smile,” multiple times and calling her “amazing Amanda” twice, Hodge said.

“I just felt, like, at first he was a just a nice guy,” she said. “I realized toward the end that he was kind of flirting.”

Hodge and her friend left the bar about 2:45 p.m. as Bruce turned away from them to talk to someone else at the bar. The shooting was reported to police about 3:19 p.m.

When she heard reports about the shooting and the suspect’s description, Hodge thought of Bruce, she said. She later recognized him in a jail booking photo taken after his arrest.

“My heart just fell down to the ground,” she said. “I’m still in shock.”

Hmmmm, possibly fueled by rejection? This is exaaactly why I always let them down respectfully and easy!! Not kidding.

 

[kc1023]

Long shot but maybe he trained at the office near Delphi. Probably not though.
So how did someone from American Insurance say they hadn’t heard from him in 12 days?
I’m so confused!

A lot of these insurance sales jobs (life ins, investments, etc) are commission only positions and most insurance companies don't house the contractors/agents. So if you don't get out and hunt down leads and get applications turned in and approved, you don't get paid. You can say you are an agent all you want but a high percentage of agents do not actually make sales. (I used to work as an admin at a regional office of a life insurance company and that is how it worked there anyway) Also, there is no "schedule" for the agents so it wouldn't necessarily be unusual at all to not hear from an agent for any extended period of time. There's no 9-5 paycheck, etc., you get sales or you don't get paid. JMO

 

[Medstudies]

• This is going to be long - fill free to skip to the next post, or add to to it. Or add “cons” ( as in why TB doesn’t fit in this equation).
• 
  
• STL advised to contact authorities in regard to murders of LG/AW - why? Was it because of multiple victims? The weapon? His specific demands (specific phrase?) MOO: Something seemed to cause LE to have a quick reaction. And note: he has not yet been excluded...)
• Again: Controlled multiple victims broad daylight
• Sexual assault (was it ever determined if Clothing was removed from L/A IRRC there were reports of clothing being found elsewhere)
• Killed without hesitation. Killed because victim refused. LG’s grandfather has gone on record that “she was a fighter”.
• Weapon to control.
• Monday, early afternoon. Just like BG.
• Spurned by females at Hot Shots. Too many people to take his anger issues out there.
• Opportunity
• Frequently absences from work - per article:
  Catholic Supply homicide suspect makes first court appearance
  Bruce's employer told News 4 he has not heard from him in 12 days.
• Anger issues - recent https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox2no...re-killers-rage-during-october-encounter/amp/ (October 2017)
• History of bankruptcies
• History of foreclosure
• Frequent moves, from first linked news source: “According to court documents, Bruce has lived in 27 different residences and has filed for bankruptcy twice.”
• His favorite “Valentine song” posted on Feb 14 2017 (Between you and Me) (I wish this were time stamped) Thomas Bruce (@NavyVetAT1) on Twitter

And then there is the likeness to the sketch-clothing.

Yes, I’m seeing red flags with this guy. What’s different between him and the other POI? None of them were arrested for rape and murder...under the same circumstances.

 

[kc1023]

I was just wondering from any locals if the case is still discussed in the community and if the posters were still up?

I also wondered if the trail was still used with the safety updates or whether people were avoiding it. I imagine it would be very difficult going for a leisurely stroll knowing something so horrendous and evil had happened there.

JMO I live in Indianapolis but one of my daughter's best friends actually moved to Delphi over the last year. I saw her over the summer and so of course I asked her if the locals up there talk about A&L and if she knew anything, etc. She said she did hear some rumors about how the girls died and that she did go to the bridge. She didn't go on the bridge but did go to it. She said she was surprised it actually seemed very peaceful and didn't seem creepy at all. In fact, she said it was incredibly peaceful and she felt the energy was good and she was surprised, not expecting that. FWIW JMO

 

[Medstudies]

I just looked at TB's twitter account, and it is back up, but a lot of it has gone. I checked back to my post on Thread #85 where I wrote " Nothing posted to it between November 2016 and April 2017.Now there are no posts between 25th March 2016 and 27th June 2017.

I have been on there, keep scrolling. Many are out of order. If I were to guess, maybe it has to do with the sequence in which he liked or shared them? IDK just that the link I just shared (feb 14,2017 was out of order from other Feb 2017 tweets.

ETA: but I noticed that there seemed to be many vacant days following the Delphi killings. (Which were at odds with his feeds at other times.)

 

[gregjrichards]

JMO I live in Indianapolis but one of my daughter's best friends actually moved to Delphi over the last year. I saw her over the summer and so of course I asked her if the locals up there talk about A&L and if she knew anything, etc. She said she did hear some rumors about how the girls died and that she did go to the bridge. She didn't go on the bridge but did go to it. She said she was surprised it actually seemed very peaceful and didn't seem creepy at all. In fact, she said it was incredibly peaceful and she felt the energy was good and she was surprised, not expecting that. FWIW JMO

Thank you for replying it is much appreciated. I hope once BG is caught the community can enjoy it again safely.

 

[tokyorose]

I am cautiously optimistic TB may be BG... so many similarities. DNA match is primary, so we wait. DNA from Delphi killer wasn't obtained until August of 2017. If it matches TB I imagine it would be difficult for him to explain what he was doing at the park in Delphi that day..even if DNA found was a bit remote from the actual crime scene. Also, he left two witnesses alive who also need our prayers because in addition to being brutalized themselves, they have now probably had to listen to Libby and Abby's ordeal on audio to see if they believe it's him on the recording Libby got. Seems to me that LE would have a really good idea if TB is BG just based on victim testimony in the St. Louis case.

 

[Lore Listener]

Hmm the article about him flirting with/bothering the woman at the bar before hand. A couple thoughts--was his first intention to rape and possibly kill her that day? I'm also assuming the friend she was eating with was female. So perhaps planned on it with both of them, hoping to talk them into leaving the bar or whatever, but she kept ignoring him.

A second thought was that maybe he felt rejected by her and that set him off in a rage, so he immediately left and then committed this awful crime.

MOO

One of his Google Maps reviews also refers to "pinching" a restaurant employee with a female name. This creep didn't come out of nowhere. It seems like he was always testing to see how much harassment and boundary crossing he could get away with. And all of it seemingly in public and bragging about it online! (Which is a big factor in favor of him having the potential to be BG, IMHO.) I'm surprised he seemed so nice to the neighbors when he was in every bar and grill in town hassling and groping the female staff. I am so impatient for announcements of what else this dude has been linked to.

 

[SandyQLS]

deleted
<modsnip - wrong user name cited>. He allegedly is Scotsman1965 on TripAdvisor.

Flying Scotsman has been described as the world's most famous steam locomotive.

IMO he likely fancies himself a descendant of Robert the Bruce; Bruce is still an aristocratic clan of Scotland.

 

[Medstudies]

so his first gig with the one branch of AFI (Maryland Heights) was short lived because he “hadn’t shown up to the office for an extended period of time” and he just repeated the same thing with a different AFI?

I’m confused too. Here’s a link to MH AFI:
Jim Vitale Agency LLC - About The Team

TB is still listed on the team...

ETA - they may want to update that particular page.

<mod fix broken quote>

————

Yes I’m quoting myself. But I went back to look at his listing for Am.Fam.Ins. He is the only agent listed with this group licensed in MO/MI/IL.
(See image)

And maybe I am really just looking at every angle with suspicion.

Quote error but link is still relevant

 

[StarryStarryNight]

• This is going to be long - fill free to skip to the next post, or add to to it. Or add “cons” ( as in why TB doesn’t fit in this equation).
• 
  
• STL advised to contact authorities in regard to murders of LG/AW - why? Was it because of multiple victims? The weapon? His specific demands (specific phrase?) MOO: Something seemed to cause LE to have a quick reaction. And note: he has not yet been excluded...)
• Again: Controlled multiple victims broad daylight
• Sexual assault (was it ever determined if Clothing was removed from L/A IRRC there were reports of clothing being found elsewhere)
• Killed without hesitation. Killed because victim refused. LG’s grandfather has gone on record that “she was a fighter”.
• Weapon to control.
• Monday, early afternoon. Just like BG.
• Spurned by females at Hot Shots. Too many people to take his anger issues out there.
• Opportunity
• Frequently absences from work - per article:
  Catholic Supply homicide suspect makes first court appearance
  Bruce's employer told News 4 he has not heard from him in 12 days.
• Anger issues - recent https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox2no...re-killers-rage-during-october-encounter/amp/ (October 2017)
• History of bankruptcies
• History of foreclosure
• Frequent moves, from first linked news source: “According to court documents, Bruce has lived in 27 different residences and has filed for bankruptcy twice.”
• His favorite “Valentine song” posted on Feb 14 2017 (Between you and Me) (I wish this were time stamped) Thomas Bruce (@NavyVetAT1) on Twitter

And then there is the likeness to the sketch-clothing.

Yes, I’m seeing red flags with this guy. What’s different between him and the other POI? None of them were arrested for rape and murder...under the same circumstances.

This is really good and very helpful! Thanks for compiling things in one spot.
I listened to what I'm guessing is a longer version of the press conference with the STL sheriff and DA.( it was part of a Gray Hughes video. I don't know how to link stuff yet) In it the sheriff said they contacted Delphi because on Tuesday morning after the crime they had no suspects so routinely they want to look at any similar crimes. The FBI assisted with that and according to him "at the top of the list" was Delphi. This would seem to indicate the similarities go beyond just clothes. I can't see that just clothes would put Delphi on the top of that list.
Also I think it's interesting that when DN burst on the scene Indiana LE said they are aware of this development. If I remember correctly within about a week and a half or two they had already sent people to CO to question DN and made a statement that nothing pointed to him being the BG. In this case, Except for the initial statement about having been contacted there's nothing from IN police. You would think they would want to put an end to speculation quickly as with DN. I am hoping that their silence so far means this case shows more promise, and there are aspects that require some real investigating to tie the two cases together.
Of course, My speculation.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

• This is going to be long - fill free to skip to the next post, or add to to it. Or add “cons” ( as in why TB doesn’t fit in this equation).
• 
  
• STL advised to contact authorities in regard to murders of LG/AW - why? Was it because of multiple victims? The weapon? His specific demands (specific phrase?) MOO: Something seemed to cause LE to have a quick reaction. And note: he has not yet been excluded...)
• Again: Controlled multiple victims broad daylight
• Sexual assault (was it ever determined if Clothing was removed from L/A IRRC there were reports of clothing being found elsewhere)
• Killed without hesitation. Killed because victim refused. LG’s grandfather has gone on record that “she was a fighter”.
• Weapon to control.
• Monday, early afternoon. Just like BG.
• Spurned by females at Hot Shots. Too many people to take his anger issues out there.
• Opportunity
• Frequently absences from work - per article:
  Catholic Supply homicide suspect makes first court appearance
  Bruce's employer told News 4 he has not heard from him in 12 days.
• Anger issues - recent https://www.google.com/amp/s/fox2no...re-killers-rage-during-october-encounter/amp/ (October 2017)
• History of bankruptcies
• History of foreclosure
• Frequent moves, from first linked news source: “According to court documents, Bruce has lived in 27 different residences and has filed for bankruptcy twice.”
• His favorite “Valentine song” posted on Feb 14 2017 (Between you and Me) (I wish this were time stamped) Thomas Bruce (@NavyVetAT1) on Twitter

And then there is the likeness to the sketch-clothing.

Yes, I’m seeing red flags with this guy. What’s different between him and the other POI? None of them were arrested for rape and murder...under the same circumstances.

This is really good and very helpful! Thanks for compiling things in one spot.
I listened to what I'm guessing is a longer version of the press conference with the STL sheriff and DA.( it was part of a Gray Hughes video. I don't know how to link stuff yet) In it the sheriff said they contacted Delphi because on Tuesday morning after the crime they had no suspects so routinely they want to look at any similar crimes. The FBI assisted with that and according to him "at the top of the list" was Delphi. This would seem to indicate the similarities go beyond just clothes. I can't see that just clothes would put Delphi on the top of that list.
Also I think it's interesting that when DN burst on the scene Indiana LE said they are aware of this development. If I remember correctly within about a week and a half or two they had already sent people to CO to question DN and made a statement that nothing pointed to him being the BG. In this case, Except for the initial statement about having been contacted there's nothing from IN police. You would think they would want to put an end to speculation quickly as with DN. I am hoping that their silence so far means this case shows more promise, and is requiring more investigating to tie the two cases together.
Of course, just my speculation and opinion.

 

[Inthedetails]

One of his Google Maps reviews also refers to "pinching" a restaurant employee with a female name. This creep didn't come out of nowhere. It seems like he was always testing to see how much he could get harassment and boundary crossing he could get away with. And all of it seemingly in public and bragging about it online! (Which is a big factor in favor of him having the potential to be BG, IMHO.) I'm surprised he seemed so nice to the neighbors when he was in every bar and grill in town hassling and groping the female staff. I am so impatient for announcements of what else this dude has been linked to.

He seems like one of those guys who if you don't want his comments and pinching, he replies with, "I was only giving you a compliment, sweetie."

One of those x 1000

jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

• STL advised to contact authorities in regard to murders of LG/AW - why? Was it because of multiple victims? The weapon? His specific demands (specific phrase?) MOO: Something seemed to cause LE to have a quick reaction. And note: he has not yet been excluded...)

Snipped.

Thank you for your long list, especially item #1. I know some WSers are scoffing a bit at the attention TB is getting here, but it's a good reminder to point out it was STL LE who first noticed the possible connection. The attention WSers are giving to TB is not unfounded.

The connection might prove to be non-existent, but if LE is considering it, it's worth considering.

jmo

 

[kkdj]

Snipped.

Thank you for your long list, especially item #1. I know some WSers are scoffing a bit at the attention TB is getting here, but it's a good reminder to point out it was STL LE who first noticed the possible connection. The attention WSers are giving to TB is not unfounded.

The connection might prove to be non-existent, but if LE is considering it, it's worth considering.

jmo

Absolutely. Think about it. How often does a perp take multiple victims at one time in broad daylight wearing a blue jacket and newsboy cap? So much more too.

 

[Medstudies]

Snipped.

Thank you for your long list, especially item #1. I know some WSers are scoffing a bit at the attention TB is getting here, but it's a good reminder to point out it was STL LE who first noticed the possible connection. The attention WSers are giving to TB is not unfounded.

The connection might prove to be non-existent, but if LE is considering it, it's worth considering.

jmo

Right?! That one was what caught my attention.

And considering not everyone was on board with CW, I’m okay with MOO on TB. At least until LE says otherwise, or other evidence points another direction.

Thank you!

 

[raja]

There was a fire in Logansport that killed 2 adults and 4 children this week. I thought about the fire in Flora near Delphi where the 5 little girls died and this fire was suspected arson. We discussed if there could be any connections way back. The weird thing about the Logansport fire is that the father of several of those children was found dead in his Flora home when authorities came to notify him of his children's deaths. This is out there I know.

 

[kc1023]

There was a fire in Logansport that killed 2 adults and 4 children this week. I thought about the fire in Flora near Delphi where the 5 little girls died and this fire was suspected arson. We discussed if there could be any connections way back. The weird thing about the Logansport fire is that the father of several of those children was found dead in his Flora home when authorities came to notify him of his children's deaths. This is out there I know.

Saw this all over the news yesterday and also thought about the Flora fire especially when they said they think it was deliberately set. Google says Logansport and Flora are 22 miles apart. I don't think it's related but you never know.

 

[Inthedetails]

There was a fire in Logansport that killed 2 adults and 4 children this week. I thought about the fire in Flora near Delphi where the 5 little girls died and this fire was suspected arson. We discussed if there could be any connections way back. The weird thing about the Logansport fire is that the father of several of those children was found dead in his Flora home when authorities came to notify him of his children's deaths. This is out there I know.

Does anyone have the link for the Flora fire and for the Logansport fire?

tia

 

[minazoe]

wonder if they find a bunch of Delphi stuff on his computer/devices. moo