Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[cluciano63]

The similarities between the crimes (this one and the guy you all have been discussing) could be simply that the perp attacked more than one person and that both were sexual.

I really am not seeing anything to make me think they were committed by the same person with what little bit we do know about the Delphi murders.

Jmo

 

[Falling Down]

So I decided to look think about what brought BG to the trails that day. Why go there? I do think he probably went there to see if anyone interested him there and was on the prowl. But there are many places to "hunt" for victims. I was curious if maybe he was someone who routinely went to hiking trails/paths looking for victims.

So first I tried searching for any other crimes that took place on hiking trails in IN but good luck getting any search results that aren't about Delphi (even when I did an advanced search and said -delphi). If anyone does this search and gets results, please let me know. Even if it isn't murder--someone attacked, mugged, chased, etc. Not necessarily the high bridge or even Delphi.

I am curious if he is someone local to that area in Indiana but maybe not Delphi specifically. If he was someone who liked "hunting" on hiking trails for their seclusion, even if you aren't from Delphi, if you Google for hiking trails in any of the small nearby towns, literally the first result in Google is the Monon High Bridge. I brought up a map of Delphi and searched about 5 of the closest towns on the map with "hiking trails" after the name and every single one gave me the high bridge first. Even though it may not have been super well known, I do think people outside of but near Delphi could easily find out about it. I was thinking about it this way because I love to hike (for a not creepy reason!) and by Googling and going to All Trails, etc., I have found many hiking trails in nearby cities that a lot of people don't know about. And if BG had been in/near Delphi for some other reason like visiting family or a work trip, Googling "Delphi IN hiking" brings you many websites about the historic trails, and the bridge is mentioned on all the ones I looked at. Info about it is pretty easy to find out.

I am really curious about other crimes on nearby hiking trails, and I'll continue to try some searches.

I've sleuthed abductions, attacks, murders, etc., along trails and in parks of all kinds since this Delphi story broke. Murders of pairs of women or juvenile girls is rare along rural trails and in rural parks, so rare that of all the cases I've seen from the last 40 years, in IN, IL, OH, KY, MI, WI, etc., of attacks on people in such places, the cases of pairs of females being murdered I could probably count on one hand. I've spent countless hours chasing such stories down in online searches, archiving them, etc. This Delphi case is one for the books, and makes sense to me why it became such an international story. It simply does not happen with any amount of frequency, anywhere, it's a rare set of crimes when it happens.

My hunch is BG was there for at least a couple of hours before he saw A&L walking the trail. IMO he was waiting for the right opportunity.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

The similarities between the crimes (this one and the guy you all have been discussing) could be simply that the perp attacked more than one person and that both were sexual.

I really am not seeing anything to make me think they were committed by the same person with what little bit we do know about the Delphi murders.

Jmo

Other similarities:
* Both crimes on Monday afternoons (not prime crime time)
* Both crimes in public places and places that would be considered safe and nice places to be
* Both crimes against "innocent" victims (as opposed to prostitutes, for example - not that prostitutes are not also innocent victims, but, rather, that these victims were two young teens in Delphi and customers in a Catholic supply store in STL)
* Similar attire with jacket and newsboy hat
* Both crimes involved more than one victim (I know you stated that, but I think it's quite unusual so deserves to stand out, imo)

I know people don't see the connections....but I do, at least for now.

jmo

 

[Falling Down]

RE: ralilroads/etc.

One of the first things I looked up about this case was the Monon RR, and where it was located. Then whatever other railroads ran through that part of Indiana, back then, and which ones are active now.

My hunch is BG is a railroad enthusiast/buff, or at the very least has an interest in industrial artifacts. There are a lot of people here in Indiana who are into it, including myself. BG has hobbies, too, as another member noted early on. Killers have interests and hobbies just like the rest of us. Indiana truly is a crossroads, of highways, U. S. routes, and railroad lines. So for people into such things this state has a lot going for it.

Possibility BG is an avid fisherman, too.

A great video by a YT user shows the old Monon rail line which ended up at the MHB, back around 2015. I watched It to get a feel for the bridge area and some of the old RoW which leads to it from the north. The guy walked like 15 miles to the bridge, eventually crossing the Freedom Bridge and then on to the trail off of C. R. 300 and then to MHB.

The trail started to get attention in 2004, I've seen pics of what it looked like back then and it had been very overgrown and disused, since CSX abandoned it in 1987.

So a huge question in my mind is how did BG know the bridge is there? Other questions: When did he find out about it? Before 2004? Before 2017? It's one of the tallest bridges in the state. Is that how he found out, via online search or word-of-mouth? Or does he belong to public or online forums where railroad and other industrial history stuff is discussed?

Newer members and folks just now looking at these threads should understand the bridge is not easy to find, just driving around there, although GPS helps. I went out there the Summer of 2017 and with GPS it was not easy to find, as in I was expecting to see a sign or other indication an old RR bridge popular with walkers and hikers was nearby. There's no indication anything is there until you drive by the sign by the drive where the parking area was. The sign is set back from the road a bit. I almost drove past it without seeing it, then went on to the cemetery.

My hunch is BG mixes his hobby or interest or what have you, with his murderous side.

JMO

 

[Inthedetails]

My hunch is BG mixes his hobby or interest or what have you, with his murderous side.

JMO

Great post. Snipped....as I totally agree with that last line.

jmo

 

[book-thinker]

Thank you; I will take some time this weekend to dive into the old threads. While I followed this case through the media from day 1, I just joined WS a few months ago, so I missed the early threads.

MntnHiker a big welcome to Websleuths
I also need a better understand of this case.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Few people walking that day, being a somewhat isolate area trail.
I believe the girls became nervous, uneasy feeling someone is behind them.
I understand both girl had a interest in forensics and law enforcement.
Using Libby's phone to record the suspect voice and her photography skills as evidence if something bad happened.

I read that the girls had chatted to each other about "there's that creepy guy again" - apparently that was part of what was recorded on the phone. I believe they had seen or passed by him earlier on the trail. It was when they noticed him walking behind them that they started to record their conversation and him.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

Your post made my stomach sink.

We've discussed before that it's possible the girls noticed something about BG beforehand - and that's why Libby started recording/photographing him. But reading your post made it seem like a real possibility. Perhaps he saw them and they got the creeps - he saw an opportunity and went to his car to get his hunting gear. (Like TB in STL left the store to get his gun from his car.) Perhaps when the girls saw him walk away, they thought he left for good and they continued on with their day. Then...he returned and they were trapped on that bridge....and Libby started documenting.

I never seriously thought of it that way - with a previous encounter that day - even after discussing this case forever.

jmo

Mind blown! Eyes opened!
I had always thought that BG was there armed and ready that day, just waiting for an opportunity. But this makes so much sense. That BG was on the trails that day and the girls had an unsettling encounter with him earlier and were on alert when he showed up on the bridge, after he had gone to arm himself. Thinking about that scenario is chilling. It ties in with what happened in STL.

 

[book-thinker]

I read that the girls had chatted to each other about "there's that creepy guy again" - apparently that was part of what was recorded on the phone. I believe they had seen or passed by him earlier on the trail. It was when they noticed him walking behind them that they started to record their conversation and him.

This person had bad intentions from the beginning, first thing LE checks is all sex offenders. He
blends in to his surrounding, a next door neighbor who displays himself as a nice guy, keeps to himself,
possible works the night shift. He lived in the area at one time, or has property outside of town and no close neighbors.
Is it possible a clue was missed, some small detail that was odd, but never report it to LE.

Always, be aware your surrounding on a walk. We have a nice trail by a local river once walking by alone,
two transient men passed me, a uneasy feeling came over me, I turned around and panic set in
when I notice they stopped and began watching me. I started to run past them untill I caught up with two ladies
walking.

 

[kkdj]

I read that the girls had chatted to each other about "there's that creepy guy again" - apparently that was part of what was recorded on the phone. I believe they had seen or passed by him earlier on the trail. It was when they noticed him walking behind them that they started to record their conversation and him.

I wonder if they had seen him earlier and then he went back to his car to get his "stuff" and returned to where they were at that time. CREEPS me out thinking about it!

 

[MntnHiker]

I agree that IMO BG had some sort of interaction with the girls earlier on their walk. It could have been that he made some creepy comment to them, but it also could have been a vibe they got from him. Perhaps he stared at them too long or stopped walking after he passed them. I don't believe that just seeing a lone man walking that day would have been enough for them to find him creepy and to give her the idea to start filming him; I really think something else had already happened, and then it was alarming to find him closing in on them on the bridge.

I think that's a really interesting idea that perhaps he ran back to his car after passing them to get his supplies when he decided he wanted them to be his victims and also saw that no one else was around. Were there other areas to park besides the parking area where the girls were dropped off, a place where his car wouldn't have been seen? Sorry if that has been asked before.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

A lot of people think BG parked at the cemetery. It seems if you drive in far enough your car can't be seen from the road.

 

[kc1023]

I agree that IMO BG had some sort of interaction with the girls earlier on their walk. It could have been that he made some creepy comment to them, but it also could have been a vibe they got from him. Perhaps he stared at them too long or stopped walking after he passed them. I don't believe that just seeing a lone man walking that day would have been enough for them to find him creepy and to give her the idea to start filming him; I really think something else had already happened, and then it was alarming to find him closing in on them on the bridge.

I think that's a really interesting idea that perhaps he ran back to his car after passing them to get his supplies when he decided he wanted them to be his victims and also saw that no one else was around. Were there other areas to park besides the parking area where the girls were dropped off, a place where his car wouldn't have been seen? Sorry if that has been asked before.

BBM - I believe the Hoosier Heartland Highway has a rest stop in walking distance with a walking overpass you could take to the bridge trail. JMO from what I recall

 

[Hatfield]

This person had bad intentions from the beginning, first thing LE checks is all sex offenders. He
blends in to his surrounding, a next door neighbor who displays himself as a nice guy, keeps to himself,
possible works the night shift. He lived in the area at one time, or has property outside of town and no close neighbors.
Is it possible a clue was missed, some small detail that was odd, but never report it to LE.

Always, be aware your surrounding on a walk. We have a nice trail by a local river once walking by alone,
two transient men passed me, a uneasy feeling came over me, I turned around and panic set in
when I notice they stopped and began watching me. I started to run past them untill I caught up with two ladies
walking.

JMO
Good move on your part.

I actually hate seeing the advice "Beware of your Surroundings" because I always think much more needs to be included with that.

Because once you notice or spot something or someone creepy then ACTION is needed just like you did. Its not good enough to just notice something is not right. We must take action on that. Whether it is to flee or get near others in a public setting or get a weapon out and ready in your hand just in case. Something, anything, but ACTION is needed.

Its no good to notice something is not right and then just sit back and watch danger unfold onto us.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Inthedetails]

JMO
Good move on your part.

I actually hate seeing the advice "Beware of your Surroundings" because I always think much more needs to be included with that.

Because once you notice or spot something or someone creepy then ACTION is needed just like you did. Its not good enough to just notice something is not right. We must take action on that. Whether it is to flee or get near others in a public setting or get a weapon out and ready in your hand just in case. Something, anything, but ACTION is needed.

Its no good to notice something is not right and then just sit back and watch danger unfold onto us.

Just my 2 cents.

I totally agree. And, know where the exit is. In any room, building, vehicle, outdoor path - know how you can get outta there. And know where people are. If you're in an isolated place, know which direction to go to get to people. You might not have time to think that through in a panic or when in danger, so know ahead of time. Flight attendants point out the exits when the plane is safely on the ground.

jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

BBM - I believe the Hoosier Heartland Highway has a rest stop in walking distance with a walking overpass you could take to the bridge trail. JMO from what I recall

I’ve always wondered about who might’ve had a connection with the snowbirds who lived directly on the other side of the bridge. Somebody like an out of town friend or relative who knew they were away, who’d been there before and was familiar with it’s private driveway and close access to the bridge and trails and who might’ve made a practise of using it as a convenient stopping place in the winter while passing through on the highway. Later it became an opportunity for a crime of convenience, with a private exit point. But JMO.

If that were so, BG would’ve been returning from a walk through the trail system and approached the girls at the end of the bridge on the way back to his vehicle.

 

[Hatfield]

Ive been trying to think of how I would change the general advice wording. Here is what I have come up with.

"Beware of your surroundings and take ACTION if the situation warrants it. That action may be evasive action, defensive action, or even offensive action if the situation warrants it."

 

[minazoe]

I visited the High Bridge in the early 70"s , it is known in the midwest. People know about it and go there. It's not totally obscure, It's not the Dunes, or Union Pier , but it is a place to go and people know about it..it has a history etc, and those interested visit. MOO

 

[Hatfield]

I visited the High Bridge in the early 70"s , it is known in the midwest. People know about it and go there. It's not totally obscure, It's not the Dunes, or Union Pier , but it is a place to go and people know about it..it has a history etc, and those interested visit. MOO

JMO
After studying where the BG took the girls there is no doubt in my mind he had more than a passing fancy with that place. He knew the place well and better than most because the location where their bodies were found was in a spot that could not be seen well by others. It was far enough away from the bridge where people on the bridge would not see them and it was down the fairly steep embankment from the landowner above who got arrested where that landowner could also not see down to that area near the bank of the river.

I also suspect the BG knew the water became shallow around that area where it was easy to cross the river on foot with the water level they had at the time.

All of that tells me he had been to that location before and probably more than once.
JMO of course.

 

[JnRyan]

I wonder if they had seen him earlier and then he went back to his car to get his "stuff" and returned to where they were at that time. CREEPS me out thinking about it!

Yes, that is one of the scenarios I think about. If he had just come back from the bridge and now he was on it again. Also, there is a photo taken earlier of Abigail walking on the bridge and you can see quite a ways toward the beginning and there is no one behind her. Then the guy has caught up to them when they arrive at the other end. This guy might have been walking fast and with purpose when they did see them. Scary.