Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #86

[Inthedetails]

While we are revisiting these points, here is one of Gray Hughes original videos of his take on the crime scene flow:

Useful. Thank you for posting that. I don't recall watching that before (I'm quite sure I'd remember the narrator "voice," lol).

jmo

 

[JnRyan]

As Gray Hughes went along, he tried to perfect his video to show how he thought the crime went down. At to the end of the bridge.

Long before I speculated that Abigail and Liberty saw the murderer before going on the bridge, Hughes already had that theory.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm listening to the road rage tape again. A few things jump out at me this time:

* He says to the officer - "You don't have sh*it," which I assume means that TB doesn't think there is evidence he caused the accident. Kind of a strange thing to say, imo, at a car accident scene. Seems like evidence is on his mind...like he knows he doesn't leave evidence even when he knows he did something wrong. The officer doesn't seem to be the one talking about evidence - it was TB who brought it up.
He wants to avoid blame not because he isn't to blame, but because there is no evidence against him.

* He says, "I am in the innocent here." Again, that's kind of a strange phrase to say when pulled over for an accident. You might say, "That guy hit me," but to say, "I am the innocent" seems odd, like he's overly interested in the word "innocent." I've speculated that TB/BG likes to defile "innocents" - I think he has a fixation on it.

* He has a foul mouth! He appears to be an average guy, but then drops m-f in his conversation. I doubt that is how he normally talks, but that is his enraged talk.
He also describes the accident as "he hit me in the ," which is a really weird way to describe a rear-end crash. And, he keeps saying it. I've speculated that TB/BG likes to say crude things to his victims, as another way to defile and shock them.

* I think TB calms down because the officer doesn't respond except in a calm and professional manner. TB wasn't able to upset or shock the officer so TB finally backs down, and his regular demeanor returns. He's not the same person at the end of the tape as he is at the beginning.

* I think the way he stands, his body, his clothes do match BG (with the knowledge that plenty of guys match this look).

* Is he wearing a cap? Baseball cap? I can't really tell.

* What a jerk he was when the officer was instructing him to stand. He jumped around like Yosemite Sam.

I have now hopped on top of the fence on whether TB is BG. I was really thinking he was, but I am less confident after listening to the audio. However, the end of the tape sounds more like BG than the beginning of the tape, but even so, it's definitely not a sure match at all.

jmopinion

 

[crussell821]

As Gray Hughes went along, he tried to perfect his video to show how he thought the crime went down. At to the end of the bridge.

Long before I speculated that Abigail and Liberty saw the murderer before going on the bridge, Hughes already had that theory.

Wow...that is extremely unsettling to watch.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I'm listening to the road rage tape again. A few things jump out at me this time:

* He says to the officer - "You don't have sh*it," which I assume means that TB doesn't think there is evidence he caused the accident. Kind of a strange thing to say, imo, at a car accident scene. Seems like evidence is on his mind...like he knows he doesn't leave evidence even when he knows he did something wrong. The officer doesn't seem to be the one talking about evidence - it was TB who brought it up.
He wants to avoid blame not because he isn't to blame, but because there is no evidence against him.

* He says, "I am in the innocent here." Again, that's kind of a strange phrase to say when pulled over for an accident. You might say, "That guy hit me," but to say, "I am the innocent" seems odd, like he's overly interested in the word "innocent." I've speculated that TB/BG likes to defile "innocents" - I think he has a fixation on it.

* He has a foul mouth! He appears to be an average guy, but then drops m-f in his conversation. I doubt that is how he normally talks, but that is his enraged talk.
He also describes the accident as "he hit me in the ," which is a really weird way to describe a rear-end crash. And, he keeps saying it. I've speculated that TB/BG likes to say crude things to his victims, as another way to defile and shock them.

* I think TB calms down because the officer doesn't respond except in a calm and professional manner. TB wasn't able to upset or shock the officer so TB finally backs down, and his regular demeanor returns. He's not the same person at the end of the tape as he is at the beginning.

* I think the way he stands, his body, his clothes do match BG (with the knowledge that plenty of guys match this look).

* Is he wearing a cap? Baseball cap? I can't really tell.

* What a jerk he was when the officer was instructing him to stand. He jumped around like Yosemite Sam.

I have now hopped on top of the fence on whether TB is BG. I was really thinking he was, but I am less confident after listening to the audio. However, the end of the tape sounds more like BG than the beginning of the tape, but even so, it's definitely not a sure match at all.

jmopinion

I agree here. The first part of the video TB is obviously very agitated and his voice reflects that and in my opinion doesn't sound at all like the Delphi audio, where BG sounds calm, serious, and controlling. Later when TB is calmer it's closer to the Delphi audio but since it's so many clipped short half sentences and the like it's really hard to match up. I sure couldn't convict him for Delphi on this.
We need audio of TB in a calm situation speaking seriously in complete sentences. HaHa! That's all!

 

[watcher9]

Here are my thoughts on TB as BG and why I think it’s probably unlikely. From St. Louis to Delphi is roughly 4.5-5 hrs each way. It’s not likely that TB would have driven 10hrs round trip. not to mention the hr or two that he would have probably hiked, stalked and waited for possible victims and then returned all the way back home without his wife or somebody knowing that he was not where he should be. So therefore, he would have more than likely of had to stay somewhere overnight , it's my belief that LE would very easily have been able to connect the dots by now if TB had been gone from home for an overnight around the time of the murders. Seems like a round peg square hole situation to me. Moo

You gave me a good idea.

Instead of making the trip in one day, what if he stayed overnight or the weekend before that Monday and left town right after the awful crime was done? Then he could have found the hiking trail, checked it out and maybe learned about the school off day.
OR, maybe BG stayed the night after, thinking no one had seen him, and then made a casual departure Tuesday morning?
Do they have hotels, motels, B&Bs, YMCA or somewhere else to stay overnight in Delphi?
LE should investigate (maybe look on videos) on whomever checked out that morning and see if anyone looked similar to BG.

OMG! I was thinking that Delphi was kind of a small town but I just did a Google search on Delphi IN hotels and it came up with a bunch of them, some starting out at $33 a night. And, Delphi is a city!

 

[Inthedetails]

You gave me a good idea.

Instead of making the trip in one day, what if he stayed overnight or the weekend before that Monday and left town right after the awful crime was done? Then he could have found the hiking trail, checked it out and maybe learned about the school off day.
OR, maybe BG stayed the night after, thinking no one had seen him, and then made a casual departure Tuesday morning?
Do they have hotels, motels, B&Bs, YMCA or somewhere else to stay overnight in Delphi?
LE should investigate (maybe look on videos) on whomever checked out that morning and see if anyone looked similar to BG.

OMG! I was thinking that Delphi was kind of a small town but I just did a Google search on Delphi IN hotels and it came up with a bunch of them, some starting out at $33 a night. And, Delphi is a city!

It's my hunch that if TB is BG, he was there on the weekend, or at least on Sunday, and stayed overnight, with a hike on the bridge before heading home on Monday. If that is the case, I think TB has been on the path before - this wasn't his first time.

Not a fact at all, pure speculation. A big fat "IF."

jmo

 

[StarryStarryNight]

You gave me a good idea.

Instead of making the trip in one day, what if he stayed overnight or the weekend before that Monday and left town right after the awful crime was done? Then he could have found the hiking trail, checked it out and maybe learned about the school off day.
OR, maybe BG stayed the night after, thinking no one had seen him, and then made a casual departure Tuesday morning?
Do they have hotels, motels, B&Bs, YMCA or somewhere else to stay overnight in Delphi?
LE should investigate (maybe look on videos) on whomever checked out that morning and see if anyone looked similar to BG.

OMG! I was thinking that Delphi was kind of a small town but I just did a Google search on Delphi IN hotels and it came up with a bunch of them, some starting out at $33 a night. And, Delphi is a city!

This I think is a good thought. It never once crossed my mind that the killer might have stayed in a hotel somewhere reasonably close overnight. Everybody seemed to think he would have gotten as far as he could away from there as fast as he could. I hope it crossed LE's minds!

 

[Inthedetails]

This I think is a good thought. It never once crossed my mind that the killer might have stayed in a hotel somewhere reasonably close overnight. Everybody seemed to think he would have gotten as far as he could away from there as fast as he could. I hope it crossed LE's minds!

Could have stayed in a hotel or even with a friend in the general area.

jmo

 

[heartgoesout]

So I'm small talking in the elevator with a maintenance guy that works in my building about entertainment in the car for kids, blah blah blah... he and his family "take trips to train shows in Ohio, Indiana, yeah we make a couple of stops all over".

He caught me look him up and down lol lol as my mind immediately heard Indiana. Great guy, he doesn't match at all. I also noticed for a smaller guy in a big winter jacket he would look bigger in a photo. (I really looked him up and down good lol lol (cringe))

The threads are so long, has anyone research train shows? Annual train shows maybe in February? If so did that lead anywhere?

 

[book-thinker]

The very first thing I noticed as I started watching the video is the fact TB has his hands in the pockets of his hands, just like BG in the photo. A lot of men do this, though, my son and his dad included.

I still think TB and BG are built quite similar, too, IMO.

View attachment 160866 View attachment 160867 View attachment 160868

Your right, many men have their hands in their pockets. Also, do you see slouching from each suspect.
Finding a connection between the two men would help. I keep on thinking about his hat,
not many men wear this style of hat.
I wonder if he's into hunting, if so you need a hunting license not sure who gives out hunting license.
It's should be on record with the state or county.

Can't believe with a photo and voice given to the public, zero suspicion to who he is,
even based on style of dress.

 

[inmyhumbleopinion]

The threads are so long, has anyone research train shows? Annual train shows maybe in February? If so did that lead anywhere?

RSBM for focus.

So this is kind of interesting, IMO:

“APRHF Rail Rangers: Riding the Hoosier Rails Program Launches November 26, 2016”
By Robert Tabern Oct 31st 2016

“On select Sunday morning departures, Rail Rangers Interpretive Guides will now be aboard the Hoosier Train from Lafayette, Indiana to Chicago, Illinois presenting ‘rolling’ educational programs about Indiana’s people, places, industry, and history. Both coach and business class passengers will have the opportunity to learn about such things as the Battle of Tippecanoe (the train passes right by the battlefield!), agriculture and industry, geology, famous Hoosier ranging from Abraham Lincoln to Orville Redenbacher, and interesting facts about the dozens of trackside towns along the route such as Rensselaer, Monon, and Dyer.

[SBM]

The inaugural APRHF Rail Rangers “Riding the Hoosier Rails” program will take place on Sunday, November 27, 2016 on northbound Train #851. Interpretive Guides will board in Lafayette, Indiana at approximately 7:30am Eastern Standard Time and continue interacting with passengers through the approximate 10:00am Central Time arrival into Chicago’s Union Station.” (BBM)
APRHF Rail Rangers: Riding the Hoosier Rails Program Launches November 27, 2016

Then
“Updated Information on Rail Rangers ‘Riding the Hoosier Rails’ Programs for February and March 2017”
By Robert Tabern Feb 2nd 2017

“Our three remaining scheduled onboard programs in February 2017 WILL continue as scheduled. This includes programs on Sunday, February 5, 2017, Sunday, February 11, 2017, and Sunday, February 26, 2017. Northbound Train #851 between Lafayette, Indiana and Chicago, Illinois.“ (BBM)
Updated Information on Rail Rangers “Riding the Hoosier Rails” Programs for February and March 2017

[It should read “Sunday, February 12“; it appears the author made a typo]

[Srart: Possible Scenario]
Say, BG has a room at a hotel near the station in Lafayette (maybe even at one of the two hotels that sponsored the program, the Hilton Garden Inn – Wabash Landing and in Westhe Campus Inn Motel, both of which are within a half-mile of Amtrak) reserved for Sunday night.

Early Sunday morning, he arrives in Lafayette and parks his car in the hotel parking lot, walks over to the station and boards the train.

He spends the day sightseeing and then catches Train #850, departing Chicago at 5:45 pm and arriving back in Lafayette at 9:46 pm (the oldest schedule I can find for the route is from May, 2017, which is exactly the same as the current schedule; I have confirmed that the service itself existed prior to that). He checks in to the hotel.
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...es/Cardinal-Hoosier-State-Schedule-110818.pdf

The following day, he decides to drive over to the Monon High Bridge as it’s just a little less than a half-hour drive from the hotel.
[End: Possible Scenario]

Somewhat interestingly, the quickest route from the Lafayette Amtrak Station to Flint, MI, where TB attended high school and still has family, takes you right by Monon High Bridge by way of IN-25 N/Hoosier Heartland Hwy. Yikes.
Google Maps

 

[heartgoesout]

That is interesting...

 

[Rott Mom]

We still live in fear - I can't believe LE has done NOTHING lately.

 

[gregjrichards]

We still live in fear - I can't believe LE has done NOTHING lately.

I understand your frustration I feel the same but we don’t know what is happening behind the scenes by law enforcement. I still believe they want this case solved more than anything and are doing the best they can. I’m just worried about it approaching the same time of year again and his desire to kill again.

 

[book-thinker]

RSBM for focus.

So this is kind of interesting, IMO:

“APRHF Rail Rangers: Riding the Hoosier Rails Program Launches November 26, 2016”
By Robert Tabern Oct 31st 2016

“On select Sunday morning departures, Rail Rangers Interpretive Guides will now be aboard the Hoosier Train from Lafayette, Indiana to Chicago, Illinois presenting ‘rolling’ educational programs about Indiana’s people, places, industry, and history. Both coach and business class passengers will have the opportunity to learn about such things as the Battle of Tippecanoe (the train passes right by the battlefield!), agriculture and industry, geology, famous Hoosier ranging from Abraham Lincoln to Orville Redenbacher, and interesting facts about the dozens of trackside towns along the route such as Rensselaer, Monon, and Dyer.

[SBM]

The inaugural APRHF Rail Rangers “Riding the Hoosier Rails” program will take place on Sunday, November 27, 2016 on northbound Train #851. Interpretive Guides will board in Lafayette, Indiana at approximately 7:30am Eastern Standard Time and continue interacting with passengers through the approximate 10:00am Central Time arrival into Chicago’s Union Station.” (BBM)
APRHF Rail Rangers: Riding the Hoosier Rails Program Launches November 27, 2016

Then
“Updated Information on Rail Rangers ‘Riding the Hoosier Rails’ Programs for February and March 2017”
By Robert Tabern Feb 2nd 2017

“Our three remaining scheduled onboard programs in February 2017 WILL continue as scheduled. This includes programs on Sunday, February 5, 2017, Sunday, February 11, 2017, and Sunday, February 26, 2017. Northbound Train #851 between Lafayette, Indiana and Chicago, Illinois.“ (BBM)
Updated Information on Rail Rangers “Riding the Hoosier Rails” Programs for February and March 2017

[It should read “Sunday, February 12“; it appears the author made a typo]

[Srart: Possible Scenario]
Say, BG has a room at a hotel near the station in Lafayette (maybe even at one of the two hotels that sponsored the program, the Hilton Garden Inn – Wabash Landing and in Westhe Campus Inn Motel, both of which are within a half-mile of Amtrak) reserved for Sunday night.

Early Sunday morning, he arrives in Lafayette and parks his car in the hotel parking lot, walks over to the station and boards the train.

He spends the day sightseeing and then catches Train #850, departing Chicago at 5:45 pm and arriving back in Lafayette at 9:46 pm (the oldest schedule I can find for the route is from May, 2017, which is exactly the same as the current schedule; I have confirmed that the service itself existed prior to that). He checks in to the hotel.
https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/...es/Cardinal-Hoosier-State-Schedule-110818.pdf

The following day, he decides to drive over to the Monon High Bridge as it’s just a little less than a half-hour drive from the hotel.
[End: Possible Scenario]

Somewhat interestingly, the quickest route from the Lafayette Amtrak Station to Flint, MI, where TB attended high school and still has family, takes you right by Monon High Bridge by way of IN-25 N/Hoosier Heartland Hwy. Yikes.
Google Maps

Interesting if LE checked all credit card receipts for February 2017. He most likely paid with a credit card for both the train ticket and hotel room. If we had a time line
to place TB at Monon High Bridge
gives the connection we need.

Great sleuthing inmyhumbleopinuon

 

[wdmcmahan]

Your right, many men have their hands in their pockets. Also, do you see slouching from each suspect.
Finding a connection between the two men would help. I keep on thinking about his hat,
not many men wear this style of hat.
I wonder if he's into hunting, if so you need a hunting license not sure who gives out hunting license.
It's should be on record with the state or county.

Can't believe with a photo and voice given to the public, zero suspicion to who he is,
even based on style of dress.

In my state (not IN or MO), the Fish and Game Commission is what regulates hunting... to get a hunting license, all I have to do is go to my local Walmart. There is a counter in the outdoor/camping supply section where the guns are kept. I give my identification (drivers license in my case) to the employee atatheat register. The employee enters my information into a database and a machine that is hooked up to that database prints out my hunting (or fishing) license.

 

[PaulaDC]

Just another thought, looks like this place has weekly retreat type classes:
The Biblical Counseling Training Conference | The National Biblical Counseling Training Conference

 

[tmar]

This I think is a good thought. It never once crossed my mind that the killer might have stayed in a hotel somewhere reasonably close overnight. Everybody seemed to think he would have gotten as far as he could away from there as fast as he could. I hope it crossed LE's minds!

Only answering your post: if BG did not live nearby, why find accommodation?
You would not wish to meet people.
He could sleep in run down places etc IF he didn't return home immediately.
He had many layers of clothing, to keep him warm.

But I think, a murderer, would want to leave the area immediately.
MOO.

 

[tmar]

Interesting if LE checked all credit card receipts for February 2017. He most likely paid with a credit card for both the train ticket and hotel room. If we had a time line
to place TB at Monon High Bridge
gives the connection we need.

Great sleuthing inmyhumbleopinuon

Wouldn't a murderer not wish to leave any evidence, that he was in the area?
Any purchase would be by cash.
MOO.