Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #87

[PaulaDC]

It was published 1/18/2018, a year ago. The comment about no other eyewitnesses is at the 11:10 mark. (If he meant no eyewitnesses to the actual crime, his comment makes sense. If he meant no eyewitnesses seeing BG, it doesn't make sense.) Because yes, we were told when the sketch was released (July 2017) it came from witnesses (they slipped & said "she" in one video interview) who had been fearful & reluctant to come forward, thus the delay. Then we heard don't look at the hat, look at the face, then this video saying don't look at the face, look at the body. Very confusing to the public, IMO.
Families of murdered Indiana teens open up about still-unsolved case

Sketch released: "The sketch was put together based on information investigators have collected so far from numerous witnesses they've spoken with." State police release sketch in Delphi murder investigation

Maybe the eye witnesses are minors.

 

[kizzykat]

If it’s ok’d by a MOD then someone will have to link it cause I can’t figure out how to do that from my phone. lol. I will go back and flag my post.

ETA: Can someone flag it for me? I don’t see the flag.
My phone must not like me. :/

I reported your post and sent along a link to the video for Mod review.

 

[MistyWaters]

Maybe the eye witnesses are minors.

I’m certain “eye witness” refers to someone who actually witnesses a crime occurring and in this case there were none. However it appears one or more people may have “witnessed” BG in the nearby area and assisted with the sketch. But that’s different than somebody who’s considered an eye witness to a crime.

eyewitness" in American English
person who saw something happen, for example a crime or an accident:
Police were looking for eyewitnesses.
EYEWITNESS | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

 

[PaulaDC]

I’m certain “eye witness” refers to someone who actually witnesses a crime occurring and in this case there were none. However it appears one or more people may have “witnessed” BG in the nearby area and assisted with the sketch. But that’s different than somebody who’s considered an eye witness to a crime.

eyewitness" in American English
person who saw something happen, for example a crime or an accident:
Police were looking for eyewitnesses.
EYEWITNESS | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

I misworded that and stand corrected.

 

[Jace1124]

I've always felt that the girls were going to meet a "boy" (that they could have met online) on their day off of school. Maybe that is why her hinkey meter immediately went off when she thought she was being followed and it wasn't a boy--but a creepy man, so she began recording. I hope that it's one of them that is already in custody and that they are just waiting for DNA testing to come back. moo

I have to agree. Why the bridge? The girls made a specific request to go THERE... (usually kids say I’m bored, take me ... a,b, or c....) Who may have asked/requested they meet THERE? Why not a mall or something sports related like hitting/catching softballs since it was getting close to the season/warm day? Libby’s grandpap took her for equipment the wkend before. Something to ponder..

 

[Sarahlou]

I have to agree. Why the bridge? The girls made a specific request to go THERE... (usually kids say I’m bored, take me ... a,b, or c....) Who may have asked/requested they meet THERE? Why not a mall or something sports related like hitting/catching softballs since it was getting close to the season/warm day? Libby’s grandpap took her for equipment the wkend before. Something to ponder..

Wouldn't there have possibly been some evidence of correspondence if they had agreed to meet someone there?
I don't think they had to be meeting someone. It might just have been somewhere they liked hanging out?

 

[NoeticSoul]

I have to agree. Why the bridge? The girls made a specific request to go THERE... (usually kids say I’m bored, take me ... a,b, or c....) Who may have asked/requested they meet THERE? Why not a mall or something sports related like hitting/catching softballs since it was getting close to the season/warm day? Libby’s grandpap took her for equipment the wkend before. Something to ponder..

It has always felt to me like there was more to the excursion. And even if one of them was dressed "messy" for the walk, that doesn't mean one of them didn't have on different clothes/outfit underneath (I've done that as a teen) and it just hasn't been reported-- just like allot of other information about this case has not been stated or released. Not all teens care about dressing up or makeup. I didn't. I was busy playing softball being a tomboy, but sill liked to visit with boys. And no, I did not always tell my mom why I was going certain places. just moo

 

[margarita25]

Maybe the eye witnesses are minors.

Wow. I don’t think I have ever heard this theory before?!? In 87 threads? (And if I did I forgot) Anyone? Impressive thought out of the box.

—-

Of course any witness would want to remain anonymous considering it refers to a homicidal manic.

 

[margarita25]

I’m certain “eye witness” refers to someone who actually witnesses a crime occurring and in this case there were none. However it appears one or more people may have “witnessed” BG in the nearby area and assisted with the sketch. But that’s different than somebody who’s considered an eye witness to a crime.

eyewitness" in American English
person who saw something happen, for example a crime or an accident:
Police were looking for eyewitnesses.
EYEWITNESS | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary

There was also talk of a woman, maybe a couple there, I forgot the details, as time elapses so does my memory (I hate that), it’s somewhere in the abyss of thousands of posts...

—-

(Random thought: Jayme was found after 88 days. We are approaching thread 88.)

 

[margarita25]

If it’s ok’d by a MOD then someone will have to link it cause I can’t figure out how to do that from my phone. lol. I will go back and flag my post.

ETA: Can someone flag it for me? I don’t see the flag.
My phone must not like me. :/

I reported your post and sent along a link to the video for Mod review.

I did as well and I can not figure out for the life of me why TL says not to do all this SM stuff yet he does an interview with some woman on SM who is not a verified or recognized media source answering questions in an investigation of this magnitude?? This is highly unusual imo and I don’t know what to make of it but finding it irritating. I haven’t even finished watching the video but if there is new information I hope Msm will quote it because TOS clearly states we can not link to some random SM page. This is quite a pickle, moo.

Let’s not discuss this video at all until @Tricia can weigh in so we can keep this thread open, thanks (nobody has so far and everyone’s been good about alerting, just saying, not trying to be bossy or anything, sorry for multiple posts).

 

[Jace1124]

In the past week I heard Libby’s grandpap Mike state in an interview (I am paraphrasing) that the photo boils down to pixels. He said the top in the FBI field and DISNEY have taken the photo and done what they can do to make it enough of a photo for the public to go on. That is why they are saying to focus on the body. When you zoom in on anything the largest portion (body in this case) will be most accurate.

Also, I believe NO parent/adult loved one knows everything his/her teen is thinking, feeling or wanting. It would be too uncomfortable to say those deep feelings about wanting someone to pay attention to you in those awkward difficult years of maturing and examining our self image... I will NOT be surprised if this was some planned meet up. The World Wide Web is so accessible, intriguing and tempting enough for any human to want to explore...

Two years ago in February on the Abby and Libby thread a fellow sleuther was talking about her sister being murdered. (It’s true) she mentioned her sisters 1st name and a few things that gave me enough information and I did a little research and I discovered who her sister was and I discovered her name as well. I private messaged her to tell her not to use names etc... We were both freaked out to learn that we live 30 minutes apart. We have had lunch several times BUT in the beginning it was so scary. Here was one insane discovery....Her deceased sister and I share the same birthday...... the moral here is that we all are too trusting at times..

 

[margarita25]

In the past week I heard Libby’s grandpap Mike state in an interview (I am paraphrasing) that the photo boils down to pixels. He said the top in the FBI field and DISNEY have taken the photo and done what they can do to make it enough of a photo for the public to go on. That is why they are saying to focus on the body. When you zoom in on anything the largest portion (body in this case) will be most accurate.

Also, I believe NO parent/adult loved one knows everything his/her teen is thinking, feeling or wanting. It would be too uncomfortable to say those deep feelings about wanting someone to pay attention to you in those awkward difficult years of maturing and examining our self image... I will NOT be surprised if this was some planned meet up. The World Wide Web is so accessible, intriguing and tempting enough for any human to want to explore...

Two years ago in February on the Abby and Libby thread a fellow sleuther was talking about her sister being murdered. (It’s true) she mentioned her sisters 1st name and a few things that gave me enough information and I did a little research and I discovered who her sister was and I discovered her name as well. I private messaged her to tell her not to use names etc... We were both freaked out to learn that we live 30 minutes apart. We have had lunch several times BUT in the beginning it was so scary. Here was one insane discovery....Her deceased sister and I share the same birthday...... the moral here is that we all are too trusting at times..

Yes I think I know this poster. Please give her my best. Iirc her sister’s killer predug a grave for her as well. Bless her heart. I have special respect for all the folks in here who join us in these boards who have family members who are missing, murdered, etc:

These include @Zach (Anjelica Hadsell’s father),
@Jlowitzer (Ali Lowitzer’s mother - TX - TX - Alexandria Lowitzer, 16, Spring, 26 April 2010 - #1) and @mocity - family / TX - TX - Cheryl Henry, 22, & Andy Atkinson, 21, Houston, 21 Aug 1990.

 

[MistyWaters]

There was also talk of a woman, maybe a couple there, I forgot the details, as time elapses so does my memory (I hate that), it’s somewhere in the abyss of thousands of posts...

—-

(Random thought: Jayme was found after 88 days. We are approaching thread 88.)

Yes I also recall mention here of a woman walking a dog but I don’t remember the source.

My comment regarding “eye witness” was in reference to a video from a year or more ago where LE stated there were no eye witnesses and sometimes that has been interpreted to refer to nobody saw BG. Although I must admit, given the 5 month lag, I do wonder if there was an actual witness or was the likeness obtained from CCTV, much like the Mollie Tibbets case, where the provider didn’t initially realize it might be significant until much later. LE is not obliged to accurately reveal to the public everything they know.

 

[sunsetbeach]

Yes I also recall mention here of a woman walking a dog but I don’t remember the source.

My comment regarding “eye witness” was in reference to a video from a year or more ago where LE stated there were no eye witnesses and sometimes that has been interpreted to refer to nobody saw BG. Although I must admit, given the 5 month lag, I do wonder if there was an actual witness or was the likeness obtained from CCTV, much like the Mollie Tibbets case, where the provider didn’t initially realize it might be significant until much later. LE is not obliged to accurately reveal to the public everything they know.

After thinking about it I decided to do a self delete of my post. I think it might have be against TOS and I don’t want a time out or the thread closed.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

JMO.

Maybe LE and MSM are being so tight lipped about a possible “witness”, whether it be “classmates”, “dog walker”, “couple” or anyone else who may have crossed paths with BG that day because THEY ARE TRYING TO PROTECT THE WITNESS.

Let’s assume for a moment BG is not TB or CE, and is also not someone else already in custody for another crime somewhere. That would mean BG is walking around free.

I’ve never been to Delphi, IN in my life, but I guarantee you that if I had been on those trails and had run across BG, regardless of whether or not I was close enough to determine ‘eyes not blue’, I sure as h-e-double-hockey-sticks wouldn’t want LE or MSM reporting that I was a “classmate”, a “dog walker” or part of a “couple”. Nor would I want a bunch of anonymous strangers on a discussion board trying to pinpoint my identity — oh that info/sketch came from a(n) “x” who saw or passed him on the trails. Who’s to say BG isn’t anonymously reading these boards or MSM? If I could give a good description of BG, I’d probably be pretty freaked out that he could have a decent recollection of me.

JMO, for whatever it’s worth.
RIP M+J

 

[Choochoobella]

On Monday, July 17, 2017, the composite sketch of the suspect in the murder of Abby and Libby was released.
"The composite sketch was created after state police received new information from witnesses along the trail, sources tell Call 6 Investigates."
I've not found a description/nor number of witnesses to the suspect. Link to Abby/Libby timeline and the quote above:
Delphi Timeline

From another source, 'Dr. Phil' pleads for tips to catch Libby and Abby's killer

"The sketch comes from witnesses, but Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter said that at least one Delphi resident had a face-to-face encounter with the killer."

It sounds like police feel confident in the witnesses that helped with creating the composite sketch, especially since one had a face-to-face encounter with the killer.

 

[Falling Down]

Maybe the eye witnesses are minors.

Strong possibility.

There were minors at the bridge late in the morning, and during the early afternoon. The family member who dropped the girls off has said there were kids by the parking area when she was there, which would be around 1:50 PM.

 

[Choochoobella]

A little more information on who contributed to the sketch:
"Police say they hope the sketch will help clarify some of the pictures that were previously released regarding the investigation and the man on the bridge. Police say the sketch of the suspect is based off witness tips, including one woman who told police she saw this man near the Delphi Historic Trails the day Abby Williams and Libby German were murdered."

"We feel this is very important because it actually gives a better view of the person in the picture that you see down below," Sgt. Kim Riley said at a press conference on Monday morning. "It shows a little more facial features it gives you a little more information on what we’re looking at, who the suspect might be, and that’s why we feel that it’s very important that this picture is out there at this time." Police say it's very important for the public to focus on the facial features."

Source: ISP releases sketch of man accused of killing Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams

 

[Choochoobella]

As to whether Abigail and Liberty were texting with a boy and had a secret plan to meet him in the park, I've never thought that was likely.

Going to the park on February 13, 2017 was a spontaneous event. Abby and Libby had few specific plans for the time they were about to spent together. On the evening of February 12th, when Abby arrived for the sleepover, she brought paint with her and Abby and Libby spent the evening painting a picture together that they titled "Chocolate". They were up half the night talking.

They slept in and make pancakes for breakfast the next morning. The girls asked what they could do, so Libby's grandma asked if they would like to do some filing to earn money that they could use to shop. They did that for a while and were not on their phones while filing.

While the girls were filing, Libby's older sister, Kelsi, said she was going to a friend's house before she had to go to work at 4pm. Libby jumped up and asked if Kelsi could take the girls to the trails, which she did, with the girls being dropped off between 1 and 1:30pm. It was a nice day and the decision to go to the park was spontaneous.

There are many reasons why Libby may have started photographing/recording the man. He may have said something scary before he said "down the hill" that alarmed the girls. Many websleuthers have commented that they think the bridge guy may have been carrying a weapon that the grainy picture doesn't make clear. Maybe Abby and Libby could see a gun or a hammer or who knows what that scared them.

I've always thought this could have been a crime of opportunity by someone who knew students were off school that day. Look at the apparent layers of clothes on the suspect versus how Libby and Abby are dressed. I checked the temperatures in Delphi, Indiana on February 13, 2017 when Abby and Libby were in the park. The temperature was about 43-44 degrees F and sunny. Maybe the perpetrator had been dressed warmly and hanging out all day looking for potential victims.

 

[Jace1124]

As to whether Abigail and Liberty were texting with a boy and had a secret plan to meet him in the park, I've never thought that was likely.

Going to the park on February 13, 2017 was a spontaneous event. Abby and Libby had few specific plans for the time they were about to spent together. On the evening of February 12th, when Abby arrived for the sleepover, she brought paint with her and Abby and Libby spent the evening painting a picture together that they titled "Chocolate". They were up half the night talking.

They slept in and make pancakes for breakfast the next morning. The girls asked what they could do, so Libby's grandma asked if they would like to do some filing to earn money that they could use to shop. They did that for a while and were not on their phones while filing.

While the girls were filing, Libby's older sister, Kelsi, said she was going to a friend's house before she had to go to work at 4pm. Libby jumped up and asked if Kelsi could take the girls to the trails, which she did, with the girls being dropped off between 1 and 1:30pm. It was a nice day and the decision to go to the park was spontaneous.

There are many reasons why Libby may have started photographing/recording the man. He may have said something scary before he said "down the hill" that alarmed the girls. Many websleuthers have commented that they think the bridge guy may have been carrying a weapon that the grainy picture doesn't make clear. Maybe Abby and Libby could see a gun or a hammer or who knows what that scared them.

I've always thought this could have been a crime of opportunity by someone who knew students were off school that day. Look at the apparent layers of clothes on the suspect versus how Libby and Abby are dressed. I checked the temperatures in Delphi, Indiana on February 13, 2017 when Abby and Libby were in the park. The temperature was about 43-44 degrees F and sunny. Maybe the perpetrator had been dressed warmly and hanging out all day looking for potential victims.

This is very detailed and based on facts. I like it. I also know that there is a possibility that they made a “tentative plan” but didn’t have an exact idea on how or if they would be able to pull it off/get out there... She was on her phone, she was posting pics. Possibly to show the “boy” look where we are... where are you?.. Also, if this theory holds any truth the “boy” most likely saw her pic before... but she saw a pic of a “boy”.,.