Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, and Liberty (Libby) German, 14/The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #88

[NickoD]

@NickoD, did you see the closeup image where you can see what appears to be a gun underneath BG's jacket? If it is, that would indicate to me that he's left-handed. Many of us share your view that he had a firearm. The girls were very close friends and from what we know of the them, Libby would have tried to protect Abby. She had a much bigger build and was very sporty so obviously she would have been a lot stronger. For this reason, I think he murdered Libby first. If he did have a gun, he had total control over both of them.

No, I have not. I saw the analysis of the suspect walking towards them with his hands in his pockets and a video that was made of the various stills showing him in relation to the overall bridge. Can you share a link? Thank you!

 

[JudgeJudi]

No, I have not. I saw the analysis of the suspect walking towards them with his hands in his pockets and a video that was made of the various stills showing him in relation to the overall bridge. Can you share a link? Thank you!

It's just on 01:00 here in Oz so it may have to wait until tomorrow but I'll find it.

 

[NickoD]

I think you'll like this Gray Hughes video. In the beginning you can see the track the girls took that leads to the bridge. Once on the bridge, you can fast forward to 16:25 which will take you from the end of the bridge, down the hill, and on to the crime scene (which still has the crime scene tape). The commentary is very interesting.

Thanks. Great video and I agree with the assessment. I was thinking that the crossing of the creek was a misguided attempt to try to get search dogs off the scent (IMO).

Another thought I had:

While BG is seen walking with a purpose, he is not at a dead sprint and the voice does not sound winded. Additionally the bridge does not really give someone confidence to run safely. I think BG came to the area, walked towards the end himself, and was walking back when he spotted the girls. Hikers and walkers should not really raise suspicion at a trail. Something was so off about this guy that warranted the girls recording him. That would be consistent with the suspect either making an about face after the girls passed him therefore no reason to be following them or appearing half way through the trail with no obvious signs how he got there. If the girls were posting pictures to social media prior to the recording it shows a relaxed posture. If they thought they were in any danger before the bridge they would not be taking time for other images but would be trying to call for help.

Above are IMO.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I thought you'd like it. I'm still looking for that pic. I'll give it another 20 mins.

 

[MJPeony]

Thanks. Great video and I agree with the assessment. I was thinking that the crossing of the creek was a misguided attempt to try to get search dogs off the scent (IMO).

Another thought I had:

While BG is seen walking with a purpose, he is not at a dead sprint and the voice does not sound winded. Additionally the bridge does not really give someone confidence to run safely. I think BG came to the area, walked towards the end himself, and was walking back when he spotted the girls. Hikers and walkers should not really raise suspicion at a trail. Something was so off about this guy that warranted the girls recording him. That would be consistent with the suspect either making an about face after the girls passed him therefore no reason to be following them or appearing half way through the trail with no obvious signs how he got there. If the girls were posting pictures to social media prior to the recording it shows a relaxed posture. If they thought they were in any danger before the bridge they would not be taking time for other images but would be trying to call for help.

Above are IMO.

BBM.
Great theory. This makes a lot of sense to me.

It’s always nagged at me (so glad she did though) that Libby took photos of him and then the recording, bc we know something about him bothered the girls. We just aren’t privy to *what* exactly. And I’ve not been able to come up with anything. But this sounds very plausible. And that could be a clue to help hone in on this guy.

If your scenario was true, it points towards a more random and less premeditated act, or perhaps he was hanging around and waiting for an opportunity but the girls themselves were not specifically targeted. In any case, it would seem to eliminate the theory he’d been following them, and that could narrow some things down.

All MOO.

 

[dotr]

BBM.
Great theory. This makes a lot of sense to me.

It’s always nagged at me (so glad she did though) that Libby took photos of him and then the recording, bc we know something about him bothered the girls. We just aren’t privy to *what* exactly. And I’ve not been able to come up with anything. But this sounds very plausible. And that could be a clue to help hone in on this guy.

If your scenario was true, it points towards a more random and less premeditated act, or perhaps he was hanging around and waiting for an opportunity but the girls themselves were not specifically targeted. In any case, it would seem to eliminate the theory he’d been following them, and that could narrow some things down.

All MOO.

Young girls are generally aware of older creepy guys and usually laugh/joke it off unless said creep does something to make them nervous enough to try and get away whilst taking his pic.
Wondering if BG flashed (exposed his sorry self) them, they laughed, gave him the bird, told him to eff off ect. THEN he became menacing following them on the bridge, clearly making them afraid and his photo then taken.
imo, speculation.
Just a thought, but if killers are generally reputed to " return to the scene of the crime" what is the likelihood of the perp doing that in this case?

 

[watcher9]

BBM.
Great theory. This makes a lot of sense to me.

It’s always nagged at me (so glad she did though) that Libby took photos of him and then the recording, bc we know something about him bothered the girls. We just aren’t privy to *what* exactly. And I’ve not been able to come up with anything. But this sounds very plausible. And that could be a clue to help hone in on this guy.

If your scenario was true, it points towards a more random and less premeditated act, or perhaps he was hanging around and waiting for an opportunity but the girls themselves were not specifically targeted. In any case, it would seem to eliminate the theory he’d been following them, and that could narrow some things down.

All MOO.

I've always liked this idea. It would explain how he was able to get away so fast without being seen. I wish I knew if they had checked this road for footprints and tire tracks.

This theory came up near the beginning that maybe BG could have been at the far end and maybe his vehicle was even there on the dirt road and that he came up on the bridge, went past the girls to make sure there were no other hikers coming and then turned back around toward the girls where his picture was taken by Libby. After the crime, he could have crossed back over the creek, went up the hill to his vehicle and left, sight unseen.

Way back then, I posted about my walk on the Google map where I came up to the intersection of W200N and N625W. If you stayed on 625, you could see the dirt road that was almost like an extension of 625. There were no signs at that time saying this was a private road, but you could see it wasn't very well traveled. When I tried to recreate my first walk today, Google maps no longer lets the little man take me near there.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

BBM.
Great theory. This makes a lot of sense to me.

It’s always nagged at me (so glad she did though) that Libby took photos of him and then the recording, bc we know something about him bothered the girls. We just aren’t privy to *what* exactly. And I’ve not been able to come up with anything. But this sounds very plausible. And that could be a clue to help hone in on this guy.

If your scenario was true, it points towards a more random and less premeditated act, or perhaps he was hanging around and waiting for an opportunity but the girls themselves were not specifically targeted. In any case, it would seem to eliminate the theory he’d been following them, and that could narrow some things down.

All MOO.

Hi MJ Peony,

IIRC, LE stated the images of BG were still shots extracted from the video, as opposed to photos taken on Libby’s phone.

JMO

RIP M+J

 

[watcher9]

Hi MJ Peony,

IIRC, LE stated the images of BG were still shots extracted from the video, as opposed to photos taken on Libby’s phone.

JMO

RIP M+J

You are right!

My above post #387 also mentions picture.
It is too late to change it now but I should have said
"where his image was captured on a video taken by Libby".

 

[JudgeJudi]

Nico, unfortunately I've been unable to find the pic where someone had highlighted what appeared to be a gun underneath the jacket. Here are 2 random pics. Many of us thought that it looked like a gun on the left side of the photo (BG's right).



It was an unseasonably warm day but BG looked rugged up. Whatever weapons or restraints he used were underneath that jacket. Some thought he may have worn some type of tactical vest. There was also a huge amount of discussion about the white "?" underneath his chin.

 

[JudgeJudi]

You are right!

My above post #387 also mentions picture.
It is too late to change it now but I should have said
"where his image was captured on a video taken by Libby".

I've fallen into that trap too, knowing full well it was a still from the video. I think we can be overly pedantic on WS and often held to account for slight errors that don't mean anything in the overall context most of the time.

 

[Jim_M]

Hi MJ Peony,

IIRC, LE stated the images of BG were still shots extracted from the video, as opposed to photos taken on Libby’s phone.

JMO

RIP M+J

Right. We know that. And usually we don't really think too much about it. But now you made me think about the remaining pieces of the video capture.

After these TWO years, LE has not been able to clean up that video framing? I don't know what FPS rate that phone recorded video, but I would hope someone could clean it up. Or maybe not.

 

[NickoD]

After these TWO years, LE has not been able to clean up that video framing? I don't know what FPS rate that phone recorded video, but I would hope someone could clean it up. Or maybe not.

From what I understand, both NASA and Disney took a crack at it and were not able to clean it up any further. From the Dr. Phil interview:

"-Dr. Phil: Have they been able to high-res this picture and-and get a better image of the face and all than-than what we have here?

-Anna Williams: This is as good as it gets. When I say that they've said, the FBI said: "We've had a lot of people working... NASA, Disney, you name it, we worked on it. We've tried. This is the best we can do." Because everybody assumes that we can and, hmm--

-Dr. Phil: Okay. [conversation moves on to the sketch]"

Source:

 

[gregjrichards]

Right. We know that. And usually we don't really think too much about it. But now you made me think about the remaining pieces of the video capture.

After these TWO years, LE has not been able to clean up that video framing? I don't know what FPS rate that phone recorded video, but I would hope someone could clean it up. Or maybe not.

If I remember correctly Liberty had an iPhone 6S she was holding it on a photo taken not long before she was killed. The standard video recording for this phone is 30 frames per second at 720p. The settings could be changed to record at 60 frames per second at 1080p.

 

[watcher9]

Right. We know that. And usually we don't really think too much about it. But now you made me think about the remaining pieces of the video capture.

After these TWO years, LE has not been able to clean up that video framing? I don't know what FPS rate that phone recorded video, but I would hope someone could clean it up. Or maybe not.

One of GH's videos recently posted above shows that this BG frame was most likely distorted because of LE deleting Abby who happened to be in the same view.

Also in the video he explained how Libby must have had to hold her phone down below her hip and at the right angle trying to get him on a video while he is moving. It was very fortunate to LE that she was able to get his image at all. It is sometimes hard for someone looking through the lens to zero in on an object. I don't imagine there was much more video of him because she had to get that phone hidden.

She let the phone continue to record so the audio stayed on. In the released "down the hill", a rustling noise in the background sounded like they were walking through leaves.

 

[MistyWaters]

I've always liked this idea. It would explain how he was able to get away so fast without being seen. I wish I knew if they had checked this road for footprints and tire tracks.

This theory came up near the beginning that maybe BG could have been at the far end and maybe his vehicle was even there on the dirt road and that he came up on the bridge, went past the girls to make sure there were no other hikers coming and then turned back around toward the girls where his picture was taken by Libby. After the crime, he could have crossed back over the creek, went up the hill to his vehicle and left, sight unseen.

Way back then, I posted about my walk on the Google map where I came up to the intersection of W200N and N625W. If you stayed on 625, you could see the dirt road that was almost like an extension of 625. There were no signs at that time saying this was a private road, but you could see it wasn't very well traveled. When I tried to recreate my first walk today, Google maps no longer lets the little man take me near there.

I’d noticed the road you’re referring to and I agree, it’s become very difficult to identify on google. On one of GH’s videos it’s clearly captured, right under beneath the far end of the bridge.

I’m still stuck on a relatively simple theory - BG was attempting to march the girls “down the hill” by gunpoint toward a vehicle parked on that same road. Rather than being forcibly abducted, they took their chances at fleeing and ran towards the river, then crossing it. They were shot down as they ran, either in anger over their intention to escape or to prevent later identification of the vehicle and the perp. JMO

 

[Jabarn]

You know, I have gone round and round about how BG first saw them, how he decided to execute his plan, and how he was able to get away even the excellent evidence from the video and voice capture Libby took.

One thing I am noticing is memory fades, and even here, we need reminders of what happened when, thinking particularly about the pics, which did seem to suggest the shape of a gun in BG’s big blue jacket.

I check in here from time to time, just to see, and because those two girls mean so much to their families- they each were middles schoolers with so much potential.

One thing I locked in on is this quote from an article posted (from post #327 from @SouthernMom).

Rumors and Speculation Around the Delphi Murder Case
Of course, the lack of confirmed details about the circumstances of the girls’ murders has only fueled more obsessive speculation from crime-watchers on sites like Reddit, where users on at least one Delphi-dedicated board with 8,400 subscribers regularly share their theories, speculations and suspicions.

“There’s a lot of false information out there,” Holeman confirms. “Social media, although not new… does impede our investigation. Like when people put up side-by-side photos of innocent people—or, at least, people with no ties to the state of Indiana or Delphi—which creates false [information]. People believe it [though] because it’s on the internet.”

And armchair detectives are even taking their interest in the case a step further by creating YouTube reenactments of the crime.

“[The videos] help us know that people don’t know [the true details], because the facts haven’t been released,” Holeman says. “People watch the news and think they are picking up on things, but it’s false. Nothing out there is accurate, which only leads to more false tips.”

Why Police Have Not Released Details on the Murders of Libby German and Abby Williams from Delphi, Indiana

 

[ab01]

I personally think that BG passed them earlier and that was the reason for them to wonder what the heck when he doubled back on them, I think they were thinking what the heck is up with this guy.....MOO

 

[gregjrichards]

I personally think that BG passed them earlier and that was the reason for them to wonder what the heck when he doubled back on them, I think they were thinking what the heck is up with this guy.....MOO

I have always wondered how the mind of a killer like this works. Do they see a target and think right away I am going to **** and kill her and figure out how they can get away with it? It is hard to believe how “lucky” he has been so far to not have been caught. I hope he jumps every time his door knocks and thinks his time free could be up because one day it will be.

 

[ab01]

I have always wondered how the mind of a killer like this works. Do they see a target and think right away I am going to **** and kill her and figure out how they can get away with it? It is hard to believe how “lucky” he has been so far to not have been caught. I hope he jumps every time his door knocks and thinks his time free could be up because one day it will be.

Honestly IDK and I pray to god he thinks about it with every waking moment ......MOO