Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #101

[mtnlites]

I always wonder if serial killers of women have deeper, beautiful voices. Studies have shown that women’s voices are usually not “attractiveness” denominators for men, but women perceive deep, rich male voices as attractive.

So if we are thinking of average, working fathers of large families, very proper, what else could make a woman trust a stranger? His voice.

I wonder if Ted Bundy had an attractive voice?

Bundy's voice was not extraordinary in any way. He was clean cut, attractive, well dressed, and polite, though. He also used ruses on occasion, like asking women for help by faking injuries. Ed Gein's voice wasn't remarkable, either.

 

[mtnlites]

What gets me is that LE has the whole video of BG walking and still is giving us the stills put together for us to watch. They are hiding something they don't want us to see.

I'm not so sure that they're hiding something as the quality is just so poor that it's difficult to make anything out. IMO Libby was hiding the fact that she was recording. I think she flipped her camera around on her phone and either held it low in her hand or held it out in front of her, pretending to take a picture, as she recorded. She'd have been walking, maybe quickly, and perhaps didn't get BG in every frame. It might look something like this: a flash of BG, a flash of a tree limb, a flash of the ties, a flash of BG, a flash of the sky, a flash of the trees, a flash of BG, etc. If LE released the entire thing then it might be even more confusing because the camera may not focus any more on BG than what we've seen. If they cut anything out then I think it was to make the footage flow more smoothly, not because there's something in there they don't want us to see. That's not to say that there isn't footage after they went"down the hill", though, and they're keeping that hidden-as they should.

 

[mtnlites]

But with Jayme it wasn’t really random. It was random how he first saw her. But from there she became targeted and essentially stalked.

But Jayme was random. They had no prior relationship and they were unknown to one another. He randomly saw her at the bus stop and then stalked her house. This case may not be any different. BG could have seen them and then decide to follow them and attack. In these examples "random" simply means that the perp saw the victim(s) by chance and had no other connection to them.

 

[Charlot123]

If they knew who he was, they would not have said he “could be in this room”...for one thing, of many, that shows me they do NOT know who he is. That is why they produced this new sketch for public view. Heaven knows, it caused enough confusion in the way it was handled...if they could have avoided that whole mess, they would have. But they had no choice.
Imo

I think they have a pretty good idea who he is. And wherever he was, he saw the PC. I think he was mortified when he heard these words.

 

[gregjrichards]

Other murder cases in which the perp was unknown by the victim and the crime was opportunity-driven:

- Hannah Graham
- Chelsea King
- Anna Dubois
- Samantha Josephson
- Morgan Harrington
- Jessica Lynn Heeringa
- Laura Smither
- many of Ted Bundy's victims
- Petit family
- Amy Watkins
- Barbara Leslie and Ruth Schwed

In Jessica Heeringa’s case Willis is not thought to have kidnapped and killed her the first time they encountered each other she had apparently served him before in the gas station and he fantasised about her before he attacked. He played a game of some kind with people regularly at a location near the gas station and he would go in for cigarettes. That’s how he must have known there were no security cameras it would have been too risky if he hadn’t scouted the place first to check. It is not known how long he stalked her. I really wish they could find her remains but it is tragically looking very unlikely.

 

[BNA]

@Wells -- I'm thinking that the suspect tends to be a bit of a loner, thus, not a lot of people know/knew of his comings & goings (save for his immediate family, who are keeping totally mum). Thus, once LE has details on the car, that will help to "locate" where the suspect was on Feb. 13th between 12-5p.

p.s. Guess it's possible that the car itself *may* have faint traces of DNA (since all people are continually shedding skin cells, etc.) that would also help to narrow down the investigation.

To me, hiding in plain sight means not hiding at all. JMO.

The rest is also JMO: I don't think he is a loner at all, and I think he might be at his worst when he is alone, mumbling to himself and acting out, etc.

I think he just might function very well when he is the center of attention in groups large and small. I think he just might thrive in that kind of environment. And, nobody is the wiser. I agree with those who suspect he may be a Bundy type.

I suspect that, unlike Bundy, he has not done this very many times previously, if at all, but that he could do it again if the right circumstance arises...maybe just because he digs the "game" he has been playing. I think his "game" includes taunting LE...well, everybody.....in the wide open.

Like everybody else here, I hope today is the day they get him. I am starting to lose sleep over the guy...which I know is nothing compared to those two girls losing their lives, and their families losing their kids.

I think LE has very strong feelings as to who this is. Those feelings include the feeling of betrayal, imo. The Superintendent sounded like a man betrayed in the 4/22 presser, imo.

I think his connection to Delphi is as an occasional visitor, for outdoorsy stuff or maybe romance. And, it is my guess that LE is trying to firm that up, air-tight....because nobody is gonna want to believe it when they nab the guy unless they have all their ducks in a row.

 

[cluciano63]

What would make LE have a “good idea” of who he was but with no way to charge him? That makes no sense to me. They have questioned hundreds, as they have said, cleared many by DNA, so they seem to have indicated...what would stop them from hauling this guy in the same way? And what would be the point of showing a sketch? Sketches look very different to different people, as we have found.

If they had a strong suspect, you can’t convince me they would not have found a way to obtain a DNA sample by now, with the FBI and etc all involved. They are not a bunch of time wasters, just hanging around hoping the right person will come forth with the right clue. This is a 2-yr old double murder. They are way past the time for trying any such ploys.
Jmo

 

[Charlot123]

You really would think so. Unless the cemetery lot wasn't 'familiar' for him? Or, for all we know, he used that lot on previous 'test' runs. Then used the Office Building lot on the 13th. JMO & speculation

Unless someone else was parked at the cemetery when he wanted to park there?

I think he used to park at different places, and sometimes walk to the bridge, perhaps.

I wonder if he had other “lairs” and vantage points, besides the bridge and the trail. Probably.

 

[Charlot123]

Bundy's voice was not extraordinary in any way. He was clean cut, attractive, well dressed, and polite, though. He also used ruses on occasion, like asking women for help by faking injuries. Ed Gein's voice wasn't remarkable, either.

I just listened to Bundy. His voice is of a rather pleasant timbre. His face seemed taut and unpleasant to me, but he spent many years in prison, of course. But the contents of the speech indicated a very bright, perceptive, man. I think he got a kick out of his own story and memories, though. MOO

 

[Charlot123]

What would make LE have a “good idea” of who he was but with no way to charge him? That makes no sense to me. They have questioned hundreds, as they have said, cleared many by DNA, so they seem to have indicated...what would stop them from hauling this guy in the same way? And what would be the point of showing a sketch? Sketches look very different to different people, as we have found.

If they had a strong suspect, you can’t convince me they would not have found a way to obtain a DNA sample by now, with the FBI and etc all involved. They are not a bunch of time wasters, just hanging around hoping the right person will come forth with the right clue. This is a 2-yr old double murder. They are way past the time for trying any such ploys.
Jmo

I can only guess, but I think with the DNA, it is a complicated situation that can not alone be convincing to the court. This is why they need the car. However, I almost bet that his DNA matched what they had. I don’t think they are wasting the time, I think they are working overtime, trying to sieve through all the calls, tips, whatever comes their way. Give them time.
Purely MOO

 

[Confusion]

Sometimes LE knows, but the evidence is all circumstantial. Sometimes LE knows and has evidence, but the prosecutor wants more before moving forward. They want an airtight case. The 2 sketches in this case might be why LE and/or the prosecutor want more before moving forward. Don’t want to go to trial and lose. Double jeopardy.

I think a lot of people are confused about what circumstantial evidence is. Almost all evidence is circumstantial other than eyewitnesses, and (I think) video, etc. They have video, audio, eyewitnesses (not to the crime, but to him being in the area at the time of the murders), possibly DNA, and if they find the car, possibly fingerprints. If they know who he is, I really don't know what else they would feel like they'd need to prove anything. MOO

 

[Charlot123]

To me, hiding in plain sight means not hiding at all. JMO.

The rest is also JMO: I don't think he is a loner at all, and I think he might be at his worst when he is alone, mumbling to himself and acting out, etc.

I think he just might function very well when he is the center of attention in groups large and small. I think he just might thrive in that kind of environment. And, nobody is the wiser. I agree with those who suspect he may be a Bundy type.

I suspect that, unlike Bundy, he has not done this very many times previously, if at all, but that he could do it again if the right circumstance arises...maybe just because he digs the "game" he has been playing. I think his "game" includes taunting LE...well, everybody.....in the wide open.

Like everybody else here, I hope today is the day they get him. I am starting to lose sleep over the guy...which I know is nothing compared to those two girls losing their lives, and their families losing their kids.

I think LE has very strong feelings as to who this is. Those feelings include the feeling of betrayal, imo. The Superintendent sounded like a man betrayed in the 4/22 presser, imo.

I think his connection to Delphi is as an occasional visitor, for outdoorsy stuff or maybe romance. And, it is my guess that LE is trying to firm that up, air-tight....because nobody is gonna want to believe it when they nab the guy unless they have all their ducks in a row.

It may not be today. But the LE will nail him. And even if it is not convincing to the court, and he walks a free man, I doubt that he will ever walk too far, with what they have on him, and what the world will know. I think his situation is pretty miserable. I also think he lost the window of opportunity to confess, and that alone could have mitigated his circumstances.

He is a very shallow version of Ted Bundy. Ted was horrible, but he had a personality. And, he is not taunting LE, he is scared.

I think if the LE plays its cards right, everyone will be convinced. I wish LE luck.

They may not have everything, but they have enough.

 

[sunshineray]

To me, hiding in plain sight means not hiding at all. JMO.

The rest is also JMO: I don't think he is a loner at all, and I think he might be at his worst when he is alone, mumbling to himself and acting out, etc.

I think he just might function very well when he is the center of attention in groups large and small. I think he just might thrive in that kind of environment. And, nobody is the wiser. I agree with those who suspect he may be a Bundy type.

I suspect that, unlike Bundy, he has not done this very many times previously, if at all, but that he could do it again if the right circumstance arises...maybe just because he digs the "game" he has been playing. I think his "game" includes taunting LE...well, everybody.....in the wide open.

Like everybody else here, I hope today is the day they get him. I am starting to lose sleep over the guy...which I know is nothing compared to those two girls losing their lives, and their families losing their kids.

I think LE has very strong feelings as to who this is. Those feelings include the feeling of betrayal, imo. The Superintendent sounded like a man betrayed in the 4/22 presser, imo.

I think his connection to Delphi is as an occasional visitor, for outdoorsy stuff or maybe romance. And, it is my guess that LE is trying to firm that up, air-tight....because nobody is gonna want to believe it when they nab the guy unless they have all their ducks in a row.

I think you may be right on most of that. I also think that the DNA testing sent off to the FBI that came back in January may have provided an initial profile that was enough to possibly try and do some mitochondrial testing. Maybe some discreet and covert family testing, families to a few of their suspects? If they got a hit, now they have to build an airtight case. That can take awhile.

Edit: I dont know what I'm doing wrong tonight, didn't mean to include all those other posts. Haven't a clue how it happened, apologies. I removed them.

 

[sunshineray]

I think a lot of people are confused about what circumstantial evidence is. Almost all evidence is circumstantial other than eyewitnesses, and (I think) video, etc. They have video, audio, eyewitnesses (not to the crime, but to him being in the area at the time of the murders), possibly DNA, and if they find the car, possibly fingerprints. If they know who he is, I really don't know what else they would feel like they'd need to prove anything. MOO

He may have someone (s) giving him an alibi. <modsnip>

 

[sunshineray]

What would make LE have a “good idea” of who he was but with no way to charge him? That makes no sense to me. They have questioned hundreds, as they have said, cleared many by DNA, so they seem to have indicated...what would stop them from hauling this guy in the same way? And what would be the point of showing a sketch? Sketches look very different to different people, as we have found.

If they had a strong suspect, you can’t convince me they would not have found a way to obtain a DNA sample by now, with the FBI and etc all involved. They are not a bunch of time wasters, just hanging around hoping the right person will come forth with the right clue. This is a 2-yr old double murder. They are way past the time for trying any such ploys.
Jmo

They don't want to just haul him in, they want to know they have a conviction first. That can take time. I think the Ohio investigators knew who committed the Rhoden murders well before they arrested them. Then they finally got that last piece of evidence that sealed it fir them.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

They don't want to just haul him in, they want to know they have a conviction first. That can take time. I think the Ohio investigators knew who committed the Rhoden murders well before they arrested them. Then they finally got that last piece of evidence that sealed it fir them.

Precisely, they want to make sure their case sticks, that the perpetrator doesn’t walk free. Another example of it taking time is Dylan Redwines case, his father wasn’t arrested for almost 5 years, even with evidence it takes time to make sure all i’s are dotted and t’s are crossed.

 

[Mimi in London]

BG video Frame # 48

This is the last frame, frame # 48, from the new extended ISP video. We have altogether 48 individual frames:

(click to enlarge)

View attachment 184084

This is the frame IMO, that ISP based their very first publication of BG - together with the second picture) on their website. It is also possible, that they eliminated that particular frame from the video. Just IMO.

View attachment 184085

As you can see, this very first pic of BG is of better quality.

I took this initial pic of BG and eliminated the background for clarity:

View attachment 184087

Hope it helps.

ALL IMO

-Nin

Looks to me as though right jacket pocket contains bolt-cutters. (Wire-cutters in US?). Like these.

 

[MDATCA]

Part of the problem is that in their request for tips, LE reinforces the notion that no tip is insignificant and no matter how small you think it is, it may be important. It’s catch 22.

I think it is unreasonable to ask for the publics help in this way and not expect the majority of tips to be long shots. It’s the nature of the beast.

LE has a list of people they are interested in. They are appealing publically to those close to him that may know something. They are shaking the apple tree to see what falls down. The appeal is also to rattle BG. They teased him a bit with the you want to know what we know statement. They are hoping someone starts to behave differently and that once again those near him will notice.

 

[rosesfromangels]

He may have someone (s) giving him an alibi. I know some recent info they got helped LE greatly and it was a shock to them.

What info did they receive?

 

[Cutiekitty]

I think a lot of people are confused about what circumstantial evidence is. Almost all evidence is circumstantial other than eyewitnesses, and (I think) video, etc. They have video, audio, eyewitnesses (not to the crime, but to him being in the area at the time of the murders), possibly DNA, and if they find the car, possibly fingerprints. If they know who he is, I really don't know what else they would feel like they'd need to prove anything. MOO

True. I was thinking more along the lines of weak circumstantial evidence vs physical or stronger circumstantial evidence. If they know who he is I’m guessing there is an alibi that needs to be discounted and maybe someone is covering for him regarding the vehicle. A confession would be nice.