Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #102

[MsBetsy]

As the creek is named Deer Creek, it wouldn’t be unusual to see deer in the area. If this was the first sighting of deer in years then I’d have to wonder.

But it’s also a sort of double edged sword - we seek more information about this case but then we critique what is shared. So I take what Libby’s grandmother is recounting at face value because also in the video in the same link, it’s quite clear to me she’s not questioning the details, she’s relaying information about what occurred.

“He saw something. He could not figure out what it was. There were two deer standing up there. As he looked up to see what it was, that is when he saw them,” said Libby’s grandma, Becky Patty.

It was a volunteer searcher who discovered the bodies of the Delphi teens, lying in the grass between a group of trees deep in the woods.

“He called his wife who was with us and said we found them. My sister came up and she was crying and she said I’m so sorry,” said Patty...”
Families of Abby and Libby take FOX59 through final hours of the Delphi teens

I have never found that story of how he spotted the bodies to be suspicious at all. He was just describing how he came to notice them. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

When the searcher says "I saw the deer, and then looked down and saw the girls", does he mean he was up above the creek bank and saw the deer across the creek on the other side, or does he mean he was on the same side the girls were found, and saw the deer and then looked below onto the creek bank and saw the girls?

I don't know if it was ever mentioned exactly where he was, but when one of the searchers asked what color shoes one of them was wearing, she told a family member not to go "down there."
So they may have been on a hill that led down to where the bodies were when they first spotted them. Imo

 

[SeattleStew]

Thank you MistyWaters and MsBetsy. I was just curious if the searchers saw them from the RL side or from across the creek. I am not suspicious of the searcher. Thank you.

 

[NickoD]

@tresir2012
ETA - what’s the source for searchers being held back waiting for the dogs arriving to search and that was connected to the girls being found? I don’t ever recall reading about that.

I looked and can't come up with one.

I think people are reading into the time of the search and the manner it was conducted and draw their own conclusions. The search was not resumed first thing in the morning due to the task of organizing the hundreds of people showing up to volunteer (it had already hit social media by then) and ensuring that you can conduct a proper search with dogs present since you don't want others throwing them off their track.

In addition, searchers cannot simply walk onto private property (which is where the crime scene ended up being at) and start looking around more than they can walk into one's bedroom and start opening drawers. If the owner is not providing consent you might be up a creek unless you get a search warrant.

So, MOO, they were not sitting around waiting for the dogs per se. They were getting organized, they were making sure they were staying out of the dogs' way and getting any relevant approval to go into people's private property that was within the search radius.

MSM article: UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

Relevant quotes:

"By mid-morning, the downtown Delphi Fire Department became a makeshift command center for volunteers assisting in the search. Crews were being sent out 10 to 12 people at a time to help cover an area of 20 to 25 square miles, Leazenby said."

...

"They had been instructed to stay away from the area where the girls had last been seen because search dogs were out. Authorities told volunteers they didn’t want to chance contaminating the scene.

“At first I couldn’t understand why we weren’t searching near [where they went missing],” said Boucher. “But once they explained it, it made sense.”"

...

"The fields were muddy and the search party was having difficulty contacting property owners to gain access, so the group mainly focused on walking along the edge of the road, peeking into barns and buildings along the way and scanning fields for any sign the girls had been in the area — a piece of clothing, a fresh-looking can or bottle, anything."

 

[cluciano63]

Kind of scary to me, as if they indeed had a suspect as so many seem to believe, I doubt very much they would need or bother with national TV interviews. This kind of reeks of desperation to me. Jmo

 

[Backstroke10]

IF he was at the PC I would think they would have isolated him by now.

Exactly! MOO

Kind of scary to me, as if they indeed had a suspect as so many seem to believe, I doubt very much they would need or bother with national TV interviews. This kind of reeks of desperation to me. Jmo

Sad but true. MOO

 

[Tippy Lynn]

For those of you wondering about the searcher who found the crime scene: it was RL's neighbor who volunteered to be in the search.

Delphi man shows FOX 59 the crime scene where searcher made the discovery of two missing teens’ bodies

Wasn’t the neighbor also friends with Libby’s grandma? And the neighbors wife was with Becky when they got the call the girls had been found.
Could it be that A&L got scared and took off running to that house only to be caught by BG before they could make it to their house? And “down the hill” was actually down RL’s hill?
Just a thought......

 

[peel]

<modsnipped>

I believe this was local......

it was a long dark night from approx 6pm when sunset occurred until the next day when the official search resumed..... a long time for mischief....

I have just grown paranoid in my old age...

this crime should have been solved two yrs ago..pics, witnesses in the area, audio, video.......

<modsnipped>

 

[sunshineray]

I was looking very carefully at both the video and still pictures of OBG in the blue jacket
It’s kind of blurry but it looks to me like this jacket is on inside out. Men’s jackets ( at least those I can find of DH all button from the left to right-buttons on right, button holes on left additionally the quilted pattern on the shoulders is often times on the inside
Women’s button the opposite
So if correct (????) maybe the perp did not want someone to see what was on his jacket- plus he could turn it back out if he had anything from the crime on his coat. Maybe the jacket had an emblem or company name easily identifiable in the Delphi area
Take a look again at jacket photo. This changes nothing but could be something ??
Moo

The right shoulder does look different than the chest area same side. Does look like it possibly could be some sort of interfacing. Interesting.

 

[tresir2012]

I don't think they ever said where the trail of the footprints originated but I thought the cemetery too so maybe that has been covered. There was also the statement of the photojournalist who was apparently on the bridge during some part of the search and saw girls clothes 75 yards away and thought they were close.
I never realized they were held back from searching to wait for the dogs. I always wondered why they didn't find them sooner. And it felt like they were just doing a recovery operation that morning and not with the intent to rescue 2 possibly injured girls. I think the waiting to begin is what made it feel that way. Maybe that is where speculation came that they had photo or video from the cloud. It seems like there is something on the scanner that reflects that.

DELPHI TIMELINE: The murders of Abby & Libby

I don't think I've seen this timeline before. Very detailed.

added to media thread.

 

[MistyWaters]

I looked and can't come up with one.

I think people are reading into the time of the search and the manner it was conducted and draw their own conclusions. The search was not resumed first thing in the morning due to the task of organizing the hundreds of people showing up to volunteer (it had already hit social media by then) and ensuring that you can conduct a proper search with dogs present since you don't want others throwing them off their track.

In addition, searchers cannot simply walk onto private property (which is where the crime scene ended up being at) and start looking around more than they can walk into one's bedroom and start opening drawers. If the owner is not providing consent you might be up a creek unless you get a search warrant.

So, MOO, they were not sitting around waiting for the dogs per se. They were getting organized, they were making sure they were staying out of the dogs' way and getting any relevant approval to go into people's private property that was within the search radius.

MSM article: UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

Relevant quotes:

"By mid-morning, the downtown Delphi Fire Department became a makeshift command center for volunteers assisting in the search. Crews were being sent out 10 to 12 people at a time to help cover an area of 20 to 25 square miles, Leazenby said."

...

"They had been instructed to stay away from the area where the girls had last been seen because search dogs were out. Authorities told volunteers they didn’t want to chance contaminating the scene.

“At first I couldn’t understand why we weren’t searching near [where they went missing],” said Boucher. “But once they explained it, it made sense.”"

...

"The fields were muddy and the search party was having difficulty contacting property owners to gain access, so the group mainly focused on walking along the edge of the road, peeking into barns and buildings along the way and scanning fields for any sign the girls had been in the area — a piece of clothing, a fresh-looking can or bottle, anything."

RL had stated “a neighbour” had asked for consent of access to his property the evening before. In the absence of official confirmation pertaining to the actual searcher who made the discovery, I’d wondered if “a neighbour” was tasked with seeking permission from all adjacent property owners in preparation for the daylight search the following morning, if it was required.

I’m not certain where the girls “had last been seen”. The parking lot or is this referring to the Snapchat photo of Abby midway across the bridge? Were the dogs and handlers perhaps looking under the bridge? It’s hard to say as Libby’s video hadn’t been found yet.
“They had been instructed to stay away from the area where the girls had last been seen because search dogs were out.”

 

[Vinrah]

If they truly believe this guy is a local then I find it so odd that this killer who was brazen and skilled enough to assault (most likely) and slaughter 2 girls in minutes in the middle of the day ... someone who was clever enough to have gotten away with it for 2 years had not killed previously and has not killed since. It just doesn't make sense that murdering 2 teens in broad daylight was his first and only kill.

Well there are a couple of points here to consider:

1. Most killers who "get away" (for a while at least) are not very clever but very lucky. There are so many things that can go wrong during an investigation - things investigators can controll and can not controll.

2. Try to get two kids at night - how high is the probability you will find two young girls strolling through an area where you can commit a crime NOT during the day ? Nearly zero. That's why he had to do it during the day. He chose an area where you would not expect being surprised by random hikers or such. That again indicates he knew the area quite well.

3. Statistically he most probably did commit several crimes before this one. Graduating from petty crimes to more violent ones (that does not mean they have to have him in their database). At some point he had to commit his first murder. It was pretty "brave" to take 2 girls -yet again - how high is the probability to find a single young girl in an area like that alone ? But yes it shows that he has quite a lot of self confidence in that regard.

4. It is possible this stays his only kill. It is possible he kills again (and 2 years or even 3 or 4 are no unusual time span between major homicides). It is possible he killed before but was not caught (well obviously that would be the case here) but I honestly doubt it. He made the mistake to leave the phone on the girl. That indicates that he was either nervous or interrupted by something or someone. Since there are no witnesses to the crime I would guess the first one.

 

[TheVisual]

I forgot, and I don't have the link...but, Douglas was on GMA promoting his new book today. They showed that at the end of the clip about this case, so that could've been part of the motive of bringing up this case. JMO

I'm half-way through his new book and it is great as usual.

 

[MeadowMuffin]

I can't help but feel that by keeping back some information in order to avoid false confessions, LE has shot themselves in the foot. Certainly the word "Guys" could have been released earlier, additional photos of BG also could have been released at the time of the murders. There is probably a lot of facts that the real murderer would know, to weed out the false confession. It's a shame that they've released the latest info so late, they are a day late and a dollar short. Memories fail, videos are recorded over, people move away. LE really needs to get moving here. For the record, I used to think they "knew" who did it, but I don't any longer.

 

[heartgoesout]

RL had stated “a neighbour” had asked for consent of access to his property the evening before. In the absence of official confirmation pertaining to the actual searcher who made the discovery, I’d wondered if “a neighbour” was tasked with seeking permission from all adjacent property owners in preparation for the daylight search the following morning, if it was required.

I’m not certain where the girls “had last been seen”. The parking lot or is this referring to the Snapchat photo of Abby midway across the bridge? Were the dogs and handlers perhaps looking under the bridge? It’s hard to say as Libby’s video hadn’t been found yet.
“They had been instructed to stay away from the area where the girls had last been seen because search dogs were out.”

It was my understanding the search dogs never made it there.

 

[OldLadyBlues]

Here I go thinking again.

Graduations from nearby colleges have begun and are finishing up. We have yet another holiday coming up with Memorial Day fast approaching. College kids are going home-Memorial Day is another family holiday, big in small towns. And suddenly Carter speaks again saying they are one tip away.

I think I have more waiting time in me.
MOO, MOO

 

[margarita25]

“....Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.“
2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

Thanks for posting this, I had not remembered this.

So what became of any shoe print analysis then? Were they able to get a useful impression and match on the size and type of shoe? I’ve seen on Forensic Files there is an actual shoe print database of some sort. There are also what they call “accidentals”, wear patterns and marks on a shoe which are unique to the wearer.

I hope they were able to separate the perp’s shoe prints from the searchers’ prints.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Well he didn't exactly say that but many of us here have wondered
what happened in the investigation to thwart the investigation?
Was it botched by local amateur investigators? Was the crime scene contaminated by the time FBI came in?
Was the perp so brilliant he has fooled investigators?
Was this the perfect crime?
I'd also like to know how much time has FBI really been on the job here or were they simply there to supplement the investigation
with technical help?
I doubt local LE has much experience solving murder crimes.

Too many chefs in the kitchen? Police chief, sheriff, state LE, and FBI

Not a dig at LE, but I think we’ve all experienced this at some point in our lives. I know I’ve been a lot of meetings where multiple levels of management have been in attendance and things got chaotic with turf wars and power struggles.

I still don’t think the investigation is botched though.

 

[tresir2012]

I don’t think you’ll find any MSM source as yet connecting this crime to the cemetery, other than many, many theories.

I’d take Libby’s grandmother’s version over anonymous sources. JMO

“....Sources tell Call 6 Investigates that a set of footprints are what led volunteers to the area the bodies were found.“
2 bodies found positively ID'd as missing teens

I'm talking about the search being coordinated from the cemetery as can be seen in the helicopter video showing all the vehicles there. I certainly don't know where the footprints started obviously.

 

[Backstroke10]

He actually said, "WHEN we run out of tips?" I'm not trying to nitpick but I might have phrased that differently...

I agree. Maybe he didn’t mean to phrase it that way but it sure doesn’t make me feel confident in the least bit. What’s unbelievable to me is, we have audio and video, and he’s supposedly local, in a town of less than 3K, yet still no arrests. I just don’t understand it. MOO This is why I don’t think he lives there. MOO