Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[insearchoflight]

I'm curious what others think about this.

BG had to of seen that Libby and Abby were together. So in his mind, as he was walking across that bridge or beforehand, his decision to act included that fact. He acted in broad daylight and on a public trail with the odds of two against one. Even if he had a gun or knife he still had two to his one.

My question is what sort of person does that? Is he just so bold, confident and so enamored with himself or is he on the other side of the spectrum, throws caution to the wind because he's self-loathing, spontaneously just acts on his feelings and if I get caught so what type of killer?

From reading around, double murders seem to happen in a home by someone known to the victims or if outside, like Son of Sam, at night. I'm finding it hard to find another instance of a double murder outside in a public area in broad daylight. Spree killers like to use separate locations and not much time in between, serial killers have some cooling off period between victims. Other than murderous couples who kill two people at once, I don't see this type of double murder being written about.

I think it’s someone who saw an opportunity and acted on impulse and adrenaline. A very sick individual indeed.

Similar to this case: Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins

 

[sunshineray]

I think the ISP may have been keeping the fact that there were witnessess involved in the sketch to themselves at that time. Let the killer think all they had was Libby's photos and that's what the sketch was generated from.

 

[MassGuy]

I'm curious what others think about this.

BG had to of seen that Libby and Abby were together. So in his mind, as he was walking across that bridge or beforehand, his decision to act included that fact. He acted in broad daylight and on a public trail with the odds of two against one. Even if he had a gun or knife he still had two to his one.

My question is what sort of person does that? Is he just so bold, confident and so enamored with himself or is he on the other side of the spectrum, throws caution to the wind because he's self-loathing, spontaneously just acts on his feelings and if I get caught so what type of killer?

From reading around, double murders seem to happen in a home by someone known to the victims or if outside, like Son of Sam, at night. I'm finding it hard to find another instance of a double murder outside in a public area in broad daylight. Spree killers like to use separate locations and not much time in between, serial killers have some cooling off period between victims. Other than murderous couples who kill two people at once, I don't see this type of double murder being written about.

Yeah, I can’t find a double murder case that has the elements that we have here.

If we take away the incredibly unusual fact that he killed two victims at once, and just focus on the fact that he committed murder, then I can find similarities.

That’s how I’m approaching it, because I believe we are seeing a variation of the same thing.

As a model, I look at killers who target joggers on jogging trails. They tend to share a lot of traits with serial killers, even if they haven’t yet met the criteria for being one.

They see their victim, they make contact with their victim, they drag her off the trail, and commit their grotesque acts under the cover of trees and brush.

There is plenty of precedent for that particular MO.

I think this guy was looking to commit rape, and unfortunately found the girls.

The case I’ve come back to a million times (because it happened near me), is the Vanessa Marcotte murder.

Her killer had no previous criminal history, and simply came upon her jogging.

He pulled over, attacked her, dragged her into the woods, sexually assaulted her, and ultimately beat and strangled her to death.

It was a rural area, and everyone assumed that he must have had a reason to be there (he was likely from there).

Thanks to an accurate physical description (in part) from Parabon, and an alert state police officer who spotted a vehicle that matched one seen in the area, he was ultimately arrested.

It turned out that his delivery route went through that town, and although he was off work that day, he likely (my opinion) drove from his neighboring city to this area where he had previously seen joggers running.

He was probably hunting, and came across a target of opportunity.

I think that’s what we’re looking at here. He just killed two instead of the usual one.

Just because one part of the crime is particularly unusual, doesn’t mean that all of it is. That’s how I see it anyways.

So this is different, but likely the same.

 

[sunshineray]

Thank you insearchoflight for that links. There are definitely some similarities but most noticeably different to me is it's obvious that Lyric and Elizabeth were snatched from their bikes and taken in a vehicle elsewhere, many miles away.

As far as what I think is the kind of personality that makes the kind of decision BG did, I'm leaning towards him being a bold one, very confident in his ability to get away and very much a planner. I think he most likely was looking for just a single victim that day but Abby's small stature and his own inflated view of himself convinced him he could handle two instead of one. AJMO

 

[tresir2012]

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying. The sketch they are using now (Young BG) is the person LE says is the person who murdered L&A. This sketch of young BG was made 3 days after the murders! This witness saw something he/she thought should be reported. We don't know why this sketch wasn't used originally. It took 2 years for LE to come back to this particulsr sketch and to say, "This is the person who murdered L&A." So the only sketch we are using now was originly made 3 days after the murders.

In my opinion, the witness who did the OBG sketch had seen the photo as it was some time before she came forward. The NBG sketch, as you say was done only a few days after the murder so probably wasn't influenced by Libby's video pic of BG whereas OBG sketch may have been. I probably didn't explain it how I meant it.

ETA. IMO maybe they didn't use that sketch originally because it didn't look like the pic. Also, didn't LE sort of hint they knew/identified the guy in the early sketch and had discounted him somehow?

 

[tresir2012]

Yeah, I can’t find a double murder case that has the elements that we have here.

If we take away the incredibly unusual fact that he killed two victims at once, and just focus on the fact that he committed murder, then I can find similarities.

That’s how I’m approaching it, because I believe we are seeing a variation of the same thing.

As a model, I look at killers who target joggers on jogging trails. They tend to share a lot of traits with serial killers, even if they haven’t yet met the criteria for being one.

They see their victim, they make contact with their victim, they drag her off the trail, and commit their grotesque acts under the cover of trees and brush.

There is plenty of precedent for that particular MO.

I think this guy was looking to commit rape, and unfortunately found the girls.

The case I’ve come back to a million times (because it happened near me), is the Vanessa Marcotte murder.

Her killer had no previous criminal history, and simply came upon her jogging.

He pulled over, attacked her, dragged her into the woods, sexually assaulted her, and ultimately beat and strangled her to death.

It was a rural area, and everyone assumed that he must have had a reason to be there (he was likely from there).

Thanks to an accurate physical description (in part) from Parabon, and an alert state police officer who spotted a vehicle that matched one seen in the area, he was ultimately arrested.

It turned out that his delivery route went through that town, and although he was off work that day, he likely (my opinion) drove from his neighboring city to this area where he had previously seen joggers running.

He was probably hunting, and came across a target of opportunity.

I think that’s what we’re looking at here. He just killed two instead of the usual one.

Just because one part of the crime is particularly unusual, doesn’t mean that all of it is. That’s how I see it anyways.

So this is different, but likely the same.

IMO and interpretation, LE have said BG is from Delphi though, and he may have moved away but comes back to visit so he is not apparently a stranger to Delphi. I don't know how they know this unless it is from DNA.

ETA it is MOO/interpretation.

 

[MassGuy]

LE have said BG is from Delphi though, and he may have moved away but comes back to visit so he is not apparently a stranger to Delphi. I don't know how they know this unless it is from DNA.

I think it’s a mix of logic and profiling.

The logic part, is that he apparently was familiar with the location of the murders.

The profiling part, is that killers tend to kill close to home.

You put those two together, and you have a home grown psychopath.

The lack of an identification thus far, makes me feel that is less likely that he lives in the area, than travels through there on occasion

 

[sunshineray]

Yeah, I can’t find a double murder case that has the elements that we have here.

If we take away the incredibly unusual fact that he killed two victims at once, and just focus on the fact that he committed murder, then I can find similarities.

That’s how I’m approaching it, because I believe we are seeing a variation of the same thing.

As a model, I look at killers who target joggers on jogging trails. They tend to share a lot of traits with serial killers, even if they haven’t yet met the criteria for being one.

They see their victim, they make contact with their victim, they drag her off the trail, and commit their grotesque acts under the cover of trees and brush.

There is plenty of precedent for that particular MO.

I think this guy was looking to commit rape, and unfortunately found the girls.

The case I’ve come back to a million times (because it happened near me), is the Vanessa Marcotte murder.

Her killer had no previous criminal history, and simply came upon her jogging.

He pulled over, attacked her, dragged her into the woods, sexually assaulted her, and ultimately beat and strangled her to death.

It was a rural area, and everyone assumed that he must have had a reason to be there (he was likely from there).

Thanks to an accurate physical description (in part) from Parabon, and an alert state police officer who spotted a vehicle that matched one seen in the area, he was ultimately arrested.

It turned out that his delivery route went through that town, and although he was off work that day, he likely (my opinion) drove from his neighboring city to this area where he had previously seen joggers running.

He was probably hunting, and came across a target of opportunity.

I think that’s what we’re looking at here. He just killed two instead of the usual one.

Just because one part of the crime is particularly unusual, doesn’t mean that all of it is. That’s how I see it anyways.

So this is different, but likely the same.

Thanks MassGuy, that certainly seems to be the same MO. It's very similar to the Marcotte case. She was attacked in daylight, in public, brought not far away and murdered. I wish that the ISP had told a little more info to the public about if there was a fierce struggle involved with Libby and Abby as with Vanessa. To look for signs of unusual scratches or bruises on anyone they know. Abby's mom commented how slight she was. Could be as simple as that, for why BG decided to take on both girls at once.

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks MassGuy, that certainly seems to be the same MO. It's very similar to the Marcotte case. She was attacked in daylight, in public, brought not far away and murdered. I wish that the ISP had told a little more info to the public about if there was a fierce struggle involved with Libby and Abby as with Vanessa. To look for signs of unusual scratches or bruises on anyone they know. Abby's mom commented how slight she was. Could be as simple as that, for why BG decided to take on both girls at once.

Vanessa scratched the hell out of her attacker, which ultimately led to his arrest (thanks to DNA).

Those girls were at such a size disadvantage in this case though, that I just wouldn’t expect it.

This guy was likely armed as well, which makes it even more unlikely.

 

[sunshineray]

LE have said BG is from Delphi though, and he may have moved away but comes back to visit so he is not apparently a stranger to Delphi. I don't know how they know this unless it is from DNA.

I think that also. I believe that DNA sent out last December, mentioned by the sheriff as "DNA testing research”, in that Radar Online article, can only mean famial tested, imo, and the results of that led to the language of the April PC.

 

[wary]

LE have said BG is from Delphi though, and he may have moved away but comes back to visit so he is not apparently a stranger to Delphi. I don't know how they know this unless it is from DNA.

Couldn’t they be saying this from profiling/logic—thinking that it must be someone familiar with access to the bridge area?

 

[Sillybilly]

Admin Note:

Hey everyone .. just a reminder that when you are stating something that is your opinion to please make it very clear that it is your opinion. If your post comes across as stating fact without links, it will be removed. To do so is exceptionally unfair to all the members who take the time to provide thoughtful responses but end up also having their posts removed in the process.

 

[tresir2012]

I posted this earlier but the thread was rolling quite quickly. Going by one of GHs video with information provided by BP, this secondary access right near Gerard Nature Park was also were the girls were dropped off.

High Bridge access changes, parking will no longer be allowed off of 300 North
ARP 4, 2017
“An entrance to the Monon High Bridge Trail area in Carroll County has been barred to keep the public out, and people will now have to walk twice as far to explore the area.

A carved wooden sign that was on County Road 300 North, on private property that was owned by the late Sherry Mears, has been taken down and the parking area that was there has been barred to keep people from parking there.....

.....Mears’ grandson and his family will be moving into the home his grandfather lived in for more than 50 years, and he expressed concerns about safety and people parking there at all hours, Corson and McCain said.

His concern was there was activity there day and night, even when you wouldn’t think there should be,” McCain said.

I wonder what he meant by that? Just people parking all the time or actual illegal activity? Safety concerns about what exactly, traffic accidents? Makes me wonder if incidents had been reported previously to the murders. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

Couldn’t they be saying this from profiling/logic—thinking that it must be someone familiar with access to the bridge area?

Not sure how they have determined it but it has been discussed on here that they may have tracked him thru DNA down to within a family in Delphi, but this is speculation only and not confirmed in any way.

 

[tmar]

Agreed!

First time, long time.
MOO Didn't the first description of BG include eye color as 'not blue?'

Hi Bluntgirl, and welcome with your first post.
Hope to hear more from you.
Yes, it has been reported here, that BG's eye colour is not blue.

 

[margarita25]

I just saw an episode of 48 Hours. It was about a man named Peter Chadwick who killed his wife and flew the coop while out on bail. He is on the US Marshall’s Most Wanted list. Chadwick had a lot of money so where he is is anyone’s guess; chances are that he has left the country, as their has been a confirmed sighting in Mexico, and other unconfirmed sightings around the world including Japan and Ukraine. I wonder if BG has left the country as well...

My main point here is that the US Marshall was talking about their approaches to finding Chadwick. He equivocated their efforts to being just like “fishing”—they throw the bait out there and wait for something to bite. While these cases are different in that Peter Chadwick’s identity is known, somehow their metaphor of “fishing” seemed similar here, the way he was talking about it.

 

[margarita25]

Couldn’t they be saying this from profiling/logic—thinking that it must be someone familiar with access to the bridge area?

I have always thought this assessment was made from common sense and profiling, wary, but there was something about this from their most recent statements since the PC and their confidence about this which makes me think something else maaaay be at play here other than profiling. If so, I’m not sure that it’s DNA—as mentioned, perhaps he has communicated with LE and has given them some kind of message that he has been in Delphi since the murders (maybe left a physical item there?), or there has been something else uncovered during the course of their investigation which leads them to definitively believe this...

Jumping off this, I just had a thought: Could maybe an attempted abduction or assault have occurred in the area since the murders that perhaps they think was BG? In that case, I would think they would indicate that, but who really knows...

 

[mtnlites]

For anyone local, is that bridge well known around town? I’ve read numerous opinions elsewhere. Was (or is) it a common place for people to hang out at? Obviously, probably not anymore considering this case.

I think most people know about it, but not everyone has been and some may have trouble telling you exactly where it is or things like where to park when you get there. When this crime first happened I realized that if someone had asked me for directions I'd have trouble getting them there, even though I've been a lot.

 

[mtnlites]

No. Just one witness.

Sheriff Leazenby is quoted in the following article:

"Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said the portrait was drawn by an FBI sketch artist and was based on "recent information" from a witness who saw the suspect about the time of German and Williams' deaths."



Police unveil composite sketch of Delphi double homicide suspect

And yet other articles say "witnesses" as in plural. No wonder everyone's confused.

ISP says new audio, video and sketch shows Delphi killer

The last of those pieces of "evidence" was released in July 2017, five months after the girls were killed. That composite sketch was created after police say they received information from "witnesses" who were in the area around the time that Libby and Abby first went missing.

Police release new sketch, video of suspect in Delphi murders

Investigators have reviewed thousands of leads looking for a man who forced the teens off the trail, ordering them to go "down the hill." Police also have released a composite sketch from eyewitnesses who believe they saw the man in Delphi.

Police release video, new sketch of suspect in 2017 Indiana slaying of two girls

During a briefing in the girls’ northern Indiana hometown of Delphi, he said a composite sketch that was previously released based on accounts from eyewitnesses who believe they saw the man is now secondary to the new sketch.

New sketch and video released in 2017 murders of girls in Delphi, Indiana

The new composite sketch of the suspect released on Monday depicts a man younger and different in appearance than the person depicted in a previously released composite sketch, based on accounts from eyewitnesses, which police said is now considered "secondary."

 

[mtnlites]

I can only tell that he’s not skinny, but not much more than that. Baggy clothes can make someone look heavier, but not that dramatically.

Ignoring the image, law enforcement is looking for a man that would be borderline overweight, with the physical description they have put out:

► THE SUSPECT: Police continue to look for a white male between 5-foot-6 and 5-foot-10, weighing 180 to 200 pounds, with reddish brown hair

This “runner theory,” appears to be an effort to make the image fit a particular person.

If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work.

And it doesn’t.

Yeah, I'm not seeing anyone who is "skinny", and since we can't see legs or muscles there's no way for me to determine that he's a runner based on the video and image stills alone.