Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[Falling Down]

Do I remember well, that at the Freedom Bridge/in that area there was a road blocking very early on? Febr. 14th? Many white police cars seen from above per air view ..... I'm still seeing it in my mind's eye.

CPS building to the right in the image, Freedom Bridge is right by there.

 

[neesaki]

Hey guys. Been lurking for a month. Became aware of the case after the April, 2019 press conference. I’m now an obsessive reader of these forums. I’m from Indiana but not close to Delphi and have some limited experience dealing with the communications end of the ISP.

I’ve read the threads and opinions and keep coming back to The Shack reference. Only an opinion obviously, but I believe the PC was 100% scripted. I think, contrary to what I’ve read here, that even the emotion was not impromptu. (I do think that he lost his place a few times and clearly screwed up the date, but that every word and nuance was calculated.) I wonder if that during the investigation, a POI or someone who might know BG, has mentioned The Shack or the plot line. I think this reference was hyper targeted at one person or group of people in hopes of getting a reaction and showing ISP’s change in strategy.

The other (completely out there) thought: the younger suspect may be a bit of a deviant with extreme sexual fantasies and urges. I’ve read on one of the threads that there has been activity at all times of the day/night at the cemetery near the park. Is this a place where people meet for untoward, intimate and secret activities? Did BG frequently go here to meet up and act out his non violent fantasies? Did OBG encounter NBG and hope for an encounter? Was NBG frustrated and needing to act out? Is the car they were inquiring about OBG? Was it some kind of company car? Was it where NBG would sit and watch people thinking of his fantasies? Did BG see these two young girls and act on the opportunity? (Trying not to be graphic, but I think you get where I’m going.)

I’ve read so much here about organized/disorganized killers, BG planning this out, wearing protective clothing, etc. Could it be that this is a frustrated, confused, hyper sexual, preditorial type of personality that couldn’t feed his desires. He sees these two and tries something, but these youth fight back and it escalates to the tragedy that we now know.

Thanks for letting me get this stream of consciousness out. It’s infuriating. This person is a monster. I want him caught before his itch needs scratched again.

Insightful post ... you’ve given me yet again more food for thought in this tragic case. Yes, monster is right.... he has to be caught, then lock him up and throw away the key.
And a warm Welcome to the thread for Abby and Libby.

 

[Krwiley60]

IMO, wearing that in the park would have made him stick out like a sore thumb. And I think he wanted to blend in.

Agree!

 

[Charlot123]

Excellent post.

Bundy's choice of victims (educated young smart college women) vs Green River's (vulnerable women) was also part of his downfall. He was dissed by his wealthy, educated first gf and was struck back at her type over and over again due to narcissistic rage/rejection. If he chose different victims he might have been off the media's radar a lot longer which is absolutely horrifying to me.
I recall the police and media reassuring the public The Green River Killer only went after prostitutes and not to worry.
They are victims too.
To tie this back to Delphi and the BG guy, he chooses a small town for his killing fields, close to home? the comfort zone for his first kill? Why two teenage girls?
Targeted or they were types that humiliated, rejected and bullied him (in his delusional psychotic/psychopathic mind)?
What do his victims say about him? The area?
Do women frighten/intimidate/enrage him so he chose easier targets?
So many questions I have...

I, too, have questions...

Ted Bundy, very likely, started killing much earlier than he stated - some say, as a young teenager. If true, and likely, it is true, then his gf’s abandoning him was maybe have not even served as the provoking factor, although it did shape the choice of future victims. I believe that his biggest narcissistic rage was the fact that he planned to advance, in law and politics, but law school proved difficult as he had to compete with pretty smart people. So soon he stopped going to school, got bored, and reverted to his favorite pass time.

At least, as it is known now, Bundy had severe mental illness on mother’s side - both maternal grandfather and grandmother were severely mentally ill. About the father, not much is known. His mental illness was neither diagnosed nor treated in time. Another interesting thing, there is not a single male friend in his life, so all these terms routinely used for him, “social”, “charismatic”, may be slightly off-mark. He presented well, initially, and he had high IQ, so he “passed” as social.

As to GRK, well, he “likes to talk with women”, as his interviewer said, but what would you say about his poor eye contact? He is an odd man; his IQ was 92 and he barely made it through school, yet he did well in the Navy and at work, was his low IQ merely some isolated learning disability? Unlike Bundy, who spoke of women as of beautiful things, GRK saw women as objects, only full of avarice and having secondary, financial, gain.
It is true that he preferred prostitutes, but it was his known area. Again, he probably killed more than we know, so maybe, not only prostitutes.

I think BG has relationship issues; whether targets are “revenge”, or he expects younger subjects to be “pliable”, is unclear. (The fact that the girls put on a fight enraged him, so maybe he is after young and passive targets?). Strictly MOO.

The comfort zone means he definitely knows it well. Grew up there?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This is a screen shot of a Google Earth image from 2010, shows the CPS building with its original parking area along the old path of C.R. 300. Old IN 25 is on the left side of the image, old railroad RoW/trail we're talking about is to the bottom of the screen.

A 2006 image shows vehicles in the old parking lot, which jives with something I'd read a while back about the building being abandoned in '07.

The 1992 image shows no building, the 1993 image shows a building.

JMO

What may have happened (illegally) in this building since it was abandoned in 2007? Were there some prospective buyers since 2007 (talk of town)?

 

[Charlot123]

Thank you for the compliment. I like your possibility of an inherently aggressive gamer who merges fantasy into a horrible reality.

There are evidently on line games in which the players form mafia groups and then try to eliminate each other. One known as 'Mafia wars' is evidently light hearted "tongue in cheek", but others may have graphic imagery, "real world" situations etc. . A gamer would also mesh with the perpertrator's possible younger age.

My city has several stores that sell a variety of elaborate war / scenario games, gaming supplies and also serve as playing clubs for interested teens and adults. Lafayette, Indiana, the relatively large city close to Delphi may well have such a shop. Though it is very possible that a potential gamer perpetrator could game entirely on line, it is possible that he drifted into a gaming store as well.

It might be worth going by such relatively nearby stores to see if the owner or employees noticed a player who was inherently aggressive, boasted about using the games to model reality, or was just plain creepy.

Not all games. I assume, he won’t be playing Mario or Minecraft. Something like first shooter games, with violence, maybe mutilation?

 

[neesaki]

I'm done. Deleting the site. Thanks

Please don’t leave, maybe take a break if you need to. Believe me, we all need a break from time to time, even if only a day, this stuff can really wear on a person. Especially for those who care like those of us here do.
So please, come back very soon, Imvp2. Your spot will here, waiting... no one else can fill it except you.

 

[crhedBngr]

@Imvp2 , do stay. You are needed.

 

[Charlot123]

Thanks. And thanks all for the welcome. Kinda wish we didn’t have to be here. I think I’m trying to say I wonder if bg has a hyper sexual obsession. I think you’re right. He likely has not had the kind of relations that satisfy him-if any. Granted, we have no idea if there even was S.A. (I feel putrid even typing that.)

I think it is SA. Not all known serial killers raped before killing. Bundy, yes. Others, never. But in many cases, killing and rituals after that are probably more important. I recently read that serial killers come from ancient hunters, so for them, the hunt, the chase and the kill are necessary. Specifically Bundy in one of his interviews speaks about the allure of the chase. And he had enough sex life, so it probably was not the main thing.

The only conjecture in my initial post that I feel strongly about is that the PC was very focused on (what LE considers) a serious P.O.I. Maybe the suspect posted something on social, had a conversation with someone or corresponded with someone about The Shack. Just seemed so very specific in an otherwise pretty lackluster and non-specific PC. My hope-since I think I’ve seen it written-please correct me if I’m wrong-that there is not a current threat to the community; hopefully meaning that LE is sweating their suspect with very obvious surveillance.

The way he spoke, LE indeed sounded like he had someone in mind. However, he can ill afford tunnel vision as for two years, we already had another sketch and were looking for a different person. If LE has legit suspicions and just needs time to prove them, this is one thing. But if he is barking up the wrong tree this time, not only is it horrible for the families and scary for the community, but also, if he unveils the third sketch, think of how it will look for him. MOO.

No comments on “the Shack” as I haven’t watched it. LE obviously thinks that the perpetrator cried over the movie. He might know better.

Unrelated, I can’t be the only who spent hours tunneling down the rabbit hole looking at faces in the crowd at the PC, or notice that the speaker when he said the culprit could be in the room (to my eyes) made a concerted effort to NOT look at anyone in particular.

As I see written often: all speculation on my part. (Edited for a typo)

I wouldn’t look at people as to me, the BG’s face is a blur.

 

[Charlot123]

I once encountered a man at a farmers market, with a baby goat tucked in his jacket. It was an unseasonably warm day, lol.

I thought it could be used for a limerick
(There once was a man in a market
Who kept baby goat in his jacket...etc)

 

[tresir2012]

And I cannot think of any reason why LE wouldn’t have searched that property. There is so very little public knowledge about this case as it stands, why do you think we would be privy to that?

Just because of the public location of the building, right next to the highway.

 

[Ajl48]

Random question for anyone who might know...

Obviously BG took the girls "down the hill" north towards the creak, I was wondering where turning south off the bridge instead would have brought them? Just trying to deconstruct that decision from BG. Can you even turn right there?

 

[mtnlites]

While I think it would be difficult to hide a tip at the call center, would we be surprised if the BG wasn’t a part of the search party? Not implying a first responder or LEO, but a concerned citizen? Someone wanting to insert themselves into the investigation to garner as much info as possible? Y’all are the real sleuths, so please correct me, but IF irc, haven’t other murderers gone back to the crime scene? I for sure recall arsonists doing this.

Sometimes they do return to the scene and like to insert themselves into the investigation, including the search parties, so BG absolutely could've done this.

I think sabotaging the tip(s) would be much more difficult. They had hundreds of people brought on to help with the influx of phone calls and emails. Unless the wrong person got the right tip by coincidence, it would've been difficult to bury it.

 

[mtnlites]

Random question for anyone who might know...

Obviously BG took the girls "down the hill" north towards the creak, I was wondering where turning south off the bridge instead would have brought them? Just trying to deconstruct that decision from BG. Can you even turn right there?

IMO it would've been easier to get to the crime scene if they'd gotten off at the other end. For one thing, they wouldn't have had to cross the creek.

Has LE ever actually said which end he took them off at? I know that we've reconstructed that moment from things that they HAVE said, and the short timeframe wouldn't have allowed much time to re-cross the bridge, I'm still not sure what his game plan was. Unless they panicked and went through the creek trying to get away from him, or unless he had a vehicle waiting or a specific spot and he didn't want to risk taking them back across the bridge, I have trouble figuring out why they ended up where they did. (Not how, but why.)

 

[Razz]

CPS building to the right in the image, Freedom Bridge is right by there.

Thank you.

Looking at "Earth", is it possible he followed the shoreline of Deer Creek and made it back that way?

 

[Krwiley60]

DBM

 

[Deleted member 158085]

^^ This!
Carter isn't the best actor really, MOO, and I almost felt sorry for him, when he delivered his "show" at the PC. Of course I understand, he had to speak a sophisticated text, talent or not (gestures, looks, voiced feelings).
Btw: What, IF a subordinate has mislead LE in protecting the killer for a certain reason? What, IF a subordinate worked at the call center and made sure, that the right tip was sorted out? (I'm assuming at the moment, that this tip was very special and was not necessarily given multiple times.)

I thought someone posted an article last week that said the FBI is the one who manages the tip line.

 

[mtnlites]

What may have happened (illegally) in this building since it was abandoned in 2007? Were there some prospective buyers since 2007 (talk of town)?

I haven't heard anything, rumor or otherwise, about "illegal" stuff that may have gone on in there. It wasn't a building one could easily slip into and it was wide open to traffic. Not exactly secluded. And honestly, I can't even remember the building being up for sale. I was under the impression that the city owned it. Property records should have access to that info.

 

[Cryptic]

Not all games. I assume, he won’t be playing Mario or Minecraft. Something like first shooter games, with violence, maybe mutilation?

I think a "gamer" who has moved from gaming fantasy to reality would more likely support a personally targeted motive. I agree with you that more intense criminal simulation games would be more likely. Games that involve fantasy gang, mafia or narco lord empire building would come to mind.

 

[Ajl48]

I'm sure this has been answered a million times but, does anyone hunt within the immediate vicinity of Monon? Was daydreaming the other day about a scenario in which BG was hunting with a partner (who had no idea about the crime/wasn't involved at all) who gave him an alibi, and the LE's appeal was targeted towards their conscience. Which I'm sure is completely unlikely - but BG was certainly dressed the part! And I wonder is there anything hunting related in 'The Shack'?