Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

[susiQ]

I’m just now catching up. This is a hoot! Did you really try to put it in your pants?

I did Good thing hubby is out of town or he'd think I'd totally lost my marbles. I couldn't get over the weight and also the length. Maybe we just have the biggest crowbar out there? My next job is to find out how many sizes of crowbars exist. I'm not done with this yet

 

[Charlot123]

I did Good thing hubby is out of town or he'd think I'd totally lost my marbles. I couldn't get over the weight and also the length. Maybe we just have the biggest crowbar out there? My next job is to find out how many sizes of crowbars exist. I'm not done with this yet

You rock, @susiQ!

 

[Charlot123]

Interesting article about the -

GRAND JURY IN INDIANA

Inside the Criminal Case: Grand juries in Indiana shrouded by law | The Indiana Lawyer

'...unlike other states and the federal system, Indiana prosecutors are not required to proceed to a grand jury in order to charge a person with a crime. A prosecutor may bring charges by indictment or information. See I.C. § 35-34-1-1. An information must contain the same substantive information as an indictment, but need only be signed by the “prosecuting attorney or his (or her) deputy.” I.C. § 35-34-1-2(b)(2) (parenthesis added).'

'Because a grand jury indictment isn’t necessary to proceed with criminal charges, a prosecutor will typically use a grand jury as an investigative tool. The grand jury can be used to issue subpoenas for evidence as well as to compel testimony from individuals who may otherwise be uncooperative.'

'..the first rule of grand juries is that you do not talk about grand juries. Doing so is subject to criminal penalty. Per I.C. § 35-34-2-10(a), absent a court order, any person who has been present at a grand jury proceeding who discloses any evidence, testimony or statements made or votes of the grand jury commits a Class B misdemeanor.'

_____________________

Not saying a GJ is convening at this time. I just find the Indiana GJ a very effective investigative tool generally speaking.

ALL IMO

-Nin

Logical question, how long is the grand jury duty in Indiana?

 

[BNA]

MISSING: Two 13-year-old Carroll Co. girls

In this early report from 13/14th Feb 2017 it mentions that DNR were part of the search teams.

Could someone please explain a little about the Deptmnt for Natural Resources? Is it like a UK environment agency ( Rivers/woodlands etc)?

Would this be a Delphi based unit or from elsewhere in County or State?

TIA

I'll give this one a try.

DNR is probably state. In PA, where I live, we call in DCNR: Department of Conservation and Natural Resources.

DCNR operates regionally.....10-15 regions throughout the Commonwealth of PA. Each regional office is located somewhere central to the region.

There are also DCNR offices and maint. sheds located in many of the state parks and state forests, and those all report to their regional office. Each regional office manages the state parks and state forests within their region. This includes giving out contracts for forest management, road maintenance, infrastructure projects, even mining/fracking/drilling.

DCNR also assists private land-owners with forest management on those properties is such a request is made. I am not sure how much, if any, oversight responsibility they have for logging, mining, fracking on those properties. There are likely multiple agencies involved in at least some of that. Cannot write with authority on this aspect.

DCNR is occasional called upon by LE departments within each region for help with search and rescue, fire fighting, etc.

I think it is likely the DNR in Indiana operates in a similar fashion.

DCNR employees are, of course, state government employees....full time.

 

[Charlot123]

“Because of the deteriorated condition of the bridge, the suspect is not walking naturally.”

7:27 mark.

If they have someone in mind, why don’t they act on their knowledge? And if they are not sure, aren’t they unnecessarily endangering someone who, for own reasons, does not want to provide an alibi, but might not be guilty of murders?

 

[MassGuy]

If they have someone in mind, why don’t they act on their knowledge? And if they are not sure, aren’t they unnecessarily endangering someone who, for own reasons, does not want to provide an alibi, but might not be guilty of murders?

I don’t think they have a particular person in mind.

The implication is that whoever was walking on that bridge would not be walking in their normal manner.

If you were to walk on that bridge for instance, your walk would not be your normal walk.

That’s all he was saying.

 

[Charlot123]

If you are not sure about Gedmatch, here is one more reason to opt in.
Count Every Mystery: July 11, 1963 Ashland, Oregon John Doe
So this child, probably disabled, maybe killed, doesn’t even have a name...

 

[Charlot123]

I've been reading this thread for quite some time. I'm attempting to post a link to psychology today that might statistically point to the type of suspect in this case. Please be warned that the author is rather blunt in some of the subject matter. Apologies if this link has been posted before.

Who Murders Children? Psychology Profiles Child Killers

Thank you! Christine Gregoire, the author mentioned here, is the former governor of the state of WA. As an assistant Attorney General of WA, she was known for her work dedicated to abused children.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Wish I could! But firstly, there's no one here to take the video except my 85 year old mother who refuses to operate a cell phone camera Secondly, I found the crowbar in the garage and I'm telling you, there's no way you can walk with it down your jeans. Way too heavy

Okay, then, in lieu of you in the "stylish"(!) jeans, with said crowbar, we'll just have to settle for a still of you with the one-blue-eyed baby goat (he is just a kid, right?).

 

[Sneaker33]

I’m just now catching up. This is a hoot! Did you really try to put it in your pants?

What about a walking cane which he may have acquired for medical reasons. However, it is unlikely someone just planning to hike across the bridge would do so on a day he needed his cane.

I did Good thing hubby is out of town or he'd think I'd totally lost my marbles. I couldn't get over the weight and also the length. Maybe we just have the biggest crowbar out there? My next job is to find out how many sizes of crowbars exist. I'm not done with this yet

What about walking cane...should have been inserted here. Sneaker33

 

[Sneaker33]

Addressing suspects mentioned on FB groups. I have noticed some repeat posters seeming to irresponsibly suggest people and theories. It is my hope the FBI temporarily skips over some of these tips. For ex, the official search was ended for the night but some individuals continued to search. I would be surprised if there was not at least one or two unmarked police cars at entrance and exit. I have difficulty imagining the killer returning the girls to the scene they were found.

 

[Angelcat13]

The long "I"? We used to joke that it's the way we were immediately able to tell the locals apart from the "tourists." In KY we have a "Versailles" that is pronounced "vur-SALES."

Small world! My Dad was from a little town in Missouri - Versailles (VerSales)!

 

[Angelcat13]

Funny Well, I found our crowbar and guess what? No way on this earth it was a crowbar down his pants! That thing is so darn heavy BG wouldn't have been able to walk never mind walk across the MHB However, I'm not ruling out other possibilities, yet........except maybe the two-headed baby goat with a catheter

God bless you for trying this experiment! LOL

And I’m impressed you didn’t end up in the ER on a 72 hour hold!

 

[Angelcat13]

Well I would then have to wonder why LE deemed it necessary to release this video if they did not think it was important and that something unique or useful would be seen or recognised.

Maybe the way he holds his hands? JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe the way he holds his hands? JMO

I'm thinking about that too, but he has his hands in pockets; so it wouldn't make sense.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

What about a walking cane which he may have acquired for medical reasons. However, it is unlikely someone just planning to hike across the bridge would do so on a day he needed his cane.
What about walking cane...should have been inserted here. Sneaker33

A walking cane would be too long, I think ..... (IF there is something).

 

[Angelcat13]

I'm thinking about that too, but he has his hands in pockets; so it wouldn't make sense.

THAT is EXACTLY what I mean - the WAY his hands are in his pockets.

 

[NancyDrew3]

or...be able to stalk people then, either....oy.

Or, he is from the area and has grown up traversing that bridge, is a psychopath or sociopath who needs to live on the edge and is comfortable doing that, is in a helping profession where dealing comfortably with heights is a requirement. Interesting that one of the early un-official sketches, done by someone in prison, showed BG walking through flames on the ground...a fireman?

 

[Boxer]

Maybe the way he holds his hands? JMO

MOO head movement, quick
glances, sidling.

 

[gitana1]

Okay, so here's where I see the danger in speculation...

You look at the picture of BG and you don't see anything on the leg. Just looks like pant legs.

A month later, a dude in another county kills someone. First murder. No criminal record whatsoever. Dude looks somewhat like BG, though not anymore than a plethora of others have. Still...that seed is planted. If THIS guy killed someone, maybe he also killed the girls? He does resemble the sketch...

So you start doing research into this guy. The height is off, the weight is off, and there's nothing in his past to indicate that he would've comitted a double murder but since he killed this other person and LE hasn't provided us with a POI, why not?

The more you dig, the more you find out about the dude. He played sports in high school and he hurt his leg, requiring him to wear a leg brace. His dad is also a construction worker and weighs about 60 pounds more than him.

You look back at the picture and, suddenly, you're seeing things that weren't there before. What if that is NOT a shadow or wrinkle on his pants? What if it's a leg brace? And now that you're looking, BG does seem to be thinner and taller than you once thought. A former basketball player perhaps?

And when you sleuth the dude's dad you see a picture of him on FB wearing a baseball cap with crossbones.

Why, you'd always wondered what that thing was on BG's head! Now you can clearly see that it's a baseball cap with crossbones on it. And the baggy jeans MUST belong to his dad. He probably wore them to throw people off (even though those jeans and that hat can be purchased at more than a dozen area stores and people of all ages wear them).

That's where I think this starts to become a slippery slope. Instead of evidence pointing to a person, in many cases a person is found first and the evidence is re-framed to fit that person. That's one of the ways that innocent people start getting in trouble.

I've been on here since the girls went missing and depending on who the idea of BG was at the moment, the things he's worn and carried have changed. When people thought it was the guy out in CO, people were seeing a hatchet in his hand-as well as the exact make and model of the gun that the other guy carried. And so on and so forth.

We DON'T have anything to do but speculate right now. That's pretty much all we got. But IMO care still needs to be taken with it.

Wow. Great, relevant post.