Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #105

[janewall]

I've been thinking about Libby fishing in the Monon Bridge area. Was she alone or w/ someone during these times? I'm beginning to think BG may have had a thing for Libby. Maybe that's where he originally saw her.

Could it be he privately followed her via FB? Did he know about her interest in forensics and her interest in welding?

I wonder if those are somehow connected. She had interests that a man would likely have. And maybe he introduced himself to her at some time. So I'm wondering if his interest was Libby and Abby just happened to be the "third party?"

All my speculation and not grounded in facts. Just a theory.

Abby was the avid fisher, as pictured in the photograph that has been shown in several posters, collages, and news releases. (And also on her mother's FB.) But yes, BG may have had an obsessive interest in one of the girls based on her interests or on his secret observations.

 

[janewall]

Oh boy, that sure would fit the attitude. And imagine the discomfort on LE's end when it become public that they "enabled" the killer. [Pure speculation based on speculation, please don't run with that.]

I don't think being in WP protects a subject from being charged in crimes committed while under protection, so betrayal or not I'd expect LE to be building a case against him with the goal of putting him in the most confined sort of federal protection. His assigned federal marshall has a dilemma however - protecting him while also protecting the public from him, as discreetly as possible so he doesn't notice he's under suspicion in a crime distinct from his witness case. MOO.

 

[Krwiley60]

You could be right but in how it reads, Riley contradicts himself by his owns words. If Riley knows who the murderer is IMO he should be “trying” to go back and check the information instead of talking to reporters. It’s highly unusual for LE to offer a suspect advance notice of an impending arrest and if that was his intention, he need not be vague because the murderer surely knows whether or not he’s been interviewed by LE.

“Somebody may have already interviewed him," said Riley. "I'm not going to say they have or have not, but there's a possibility that has happened. The person apparently gave the investigating officers the information they were looking for. We have to try to go back and check on the information that we have received."

So is “the person” BG or a different witness with a tip? Ugh I’m so confused.

 

[Krwiley60]

Jmo they have been saying versions of “may have interviewed him already” for a while now, I think. It means nothing special. Most of what Carter and Riley say is so confusing...I understand almost none of it jmo.

Same here haha. Sometimes I think they are all just bluffing.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I would like to know, which BG was seen by a witness face to face: OBG or NBG?
The one, who was seen from near, got painted more perfect, I think.

 

[cluciano63]

Killing women and/or children are not considered “bragging” type crimes, even among crimals...think it is very far-fetched to believe he told anyone.

 

[crhedBngr]

I ran across this article on a 43 year old case being solved with family tree genetics. The term "hiding in plain sight" was used.
MOO to me the phrase is has come to mean a criminal for whom police have CS DNA but their DNA is not in CODIS. If the criminal can stay free a subsequent police DNA swab, they live a normal life in the community. I don't think Carter would misuse police jargon.

Arrest in 43-year-old murder case stuns Wisconsin town

Wow, nothing like seeing an arrest to a cold case in my neck of the woods!

I hope and pray Abby and Libby get justice very, very soon.

 

[Rosegold68]

i can't see that someone is covering for him either

cos he (bg)will know that they know, and that is a dangerous position for someone to remain in through just fear

the elephant in the room will always be there, lurking,creating tension and more fear. its not sustainable

 

[moonlessnight]

the very first one.

moonlesnight, what CM episode are you refering to? TIA

 

[Razz]

I can't imagine them being friends, I think Libby would see through him.

However, your post is a good reminder that both girls were good students, had various interests and were just talented.

I don't think Libby had "man" interests, simply, women are becoming more assertive, and good for them!

It is Abby that was the avid fisherperson, not Libby. Sorry for my mistake!

I feel this may have been someone who viewed them from afar. I don't think they were friends w/ BG but he may have felt differently.

 

[raja]

Killing women and/or children are not considered “bragging” type crimes, even among crimals...think it is very far-fetched to believe he told anyone.

He may have told someone while threatening them with what he could do to that person.

 

[sunshineray]

And how we know these were just two? Some cases will never be solved. Or bodies will never be found. Maybe there are more of his victims among these.

I agree, we don't know.

 

[sunshineray]

i can't see that someone is covering for him either

cos he (bg)will know that they know, and that is a dangerous position for someone to remain in through just fear

the elephant in the room will always be there, lurking,creating tension and more fear. its not sustainable

What if his ruin would mean their ruin and/or their children's ruin, loss of home, business. I know what I would do but there are as many variations of action as there are people.

 

[Boxer]

Again, imho, if this investigation is currently piggybacking off of a fictional TV drama in the hope of mov

MOO I think that the show Criminal
Minds probably picked up police terms and concepts to write their show. In other words, the fictional took what it needed for story from the police reality, or at least let's hope.

 

[minazoe]

in the last thread I said it's not possible...I meant it's not possible that BG is not a serial killer.
BG is going to come back and do it again..maybe in another town but no, there is no way this is not a serial killer.. any man who kills with sexual purpose will eventually be a serial killer. It is my opinion that this is behavior that does not stop, like rapists they cannot stop their sadistic compulsions.

some guy goes to the woods and kills two little girls out for a hike...

serial killer.

mOO

 

[Krwiley60]

I would like to know, which BG was seen by a witness face to face: OBG or NBG?
The one, who was seen from near, got painted more perfect, I think.

True. Isn’t LE now saying that BG will look like something between both sketches? If that’s the case, then are all the witnesses right? I’m confusing myself more lol.

 

[mtnlites]

BBM - I think that is what he is saying.

Is it possible that might have been what happened? Could the girls have known BG? He happens to be at the trail that day and saw the SC post at the bridge so he knows they are there too - they wouldn’t have had to formally announce their location it was broadcast via the pic. Maybe he’s parked at the abandoned building when he sees the post and drives to where they were dropped off at, walks to the bridge and asks them if they want to go for a ride. They think he’s kind of weird, but he’s got a car and seems harmless. There wouldn’t be sounds of a struggle because they left willingly. Maybe they ride into town (MP - phone pinging around town), but insist on coming back to the trail area because that’s where they are supposed to be picked up. Maybe BG wants to hang out more and he normally hangs out in the crime scene area. They don’t want to go, but he takes them to the cemetery anyway and forces them down that hill. Since he’s acting weird maybe this is when LG decided to record what was happening. Things go sideways very quickly and afterwards he goes back up to his car and leaves.

As a person with knowledge of the area and a LOT of knowledge of the case, is this even possible?

A few things...

1. The timeline is really too tight for this to have happened in that way. LE seems to think that the time between Abby's picture being taken and the girls' deaths as really quickly-less than 2 hours, if I am remembering correctly. Taking them into town, driving around, coming back, etc...not a whole lot of time. Abby's picture was taken a little after 2pm and by 3:30 (before that, really) someone was looking for them.

2. It wouldn't explain the recorded convo about the man behind them. We don't know if they really used the word "creepy" or not, but they did seem to comment on his presence and not in a "let's hang out with him" kind of way. I don't think they'd have had that convo and then gotten into the car with him in what amounts of a few minutes later.

3. It wouldn't explain why Libby started videotaping him on the bridge. Why turn it on and secretly film him and then agree to go ride around with him? (Unless the whole videotaping of him was an accident and she hadn't meant to.)

The scenario would explain a few things-why nobody heard them scream and the phone "pinging around town". It might also explain how they got across the creek without wading through it. I think there are other, more probable explanations for those things though: they didn't scream because they were too afraid, the phone was simply bouncing off towers because the towers were full, and they were either ordered across the creek, crossed back over the bridge (and were accosted THERE), or they panicked and ran.

It's not a bad idea, though. I don't want you to think that I'm pooh-poohing it. When the crime first happened, that's what I thought had happened. I thought the girls had met up with some peers close to their age and that they'd either been bullied or hazed and it had culminated in their deaths. As the facts started coming out, though, my theory no longer made sense.

 

[sumzero]

Jmo they have been saying versions of “may have interviewed him already” for a while now, I think. It means nothing special. Most of what Carter and Riley say is so confusing...I understand almost none of it jmo.

Yes, he's been repeating himself since day one. The problem, as I see it, is that he's giving the public false hope. "We're just one tip away from solving this case" leads one to believe that they're oh-so-close! But he's been saying that for 2+ years. This case is no closer to being solved than thousands of other cold cases which need "just that one tip" to be solved.

 

[Boxer]

True. Isn’t LE now saying that BG will look like something between both sketches? If that’s the case, then are all the witnesses right? I’m confusing myself more lol.

MOO had that same idea from what Carter said to WISH TV, I thought he said that BG true appearance was going to being something between YBG sketch and OBG sketch.
I went back and listened again and found that he apparently meant that reality was going to be somewhere between the NBG and the actual appearance of the individual.
In other words, MOO he meant the YBG aketch is a ballpark representation.

 

[mtnlites]

I ran across this article on a 43 year old case being solved with family tree genetics. The term "hiding in plain sight" was used.
MOO to me the phrase is has come to mean a criminal for whom police have CS DNA but their DNA is not in CODIS. If the criminal can stay free a subsequent police DNA swab, they live a normal life in the community. I don't think Carter would misuse police jargon.

Arrest in 43-year-old murder case stuns Wisconsin town

It's not police jargon at all to me so I am confused as how he even could "misuse it". The phrase has been around forever and is used in a variety of manners-and long before we started talking about DNA. There are literally references to it in literature from the 18th century,but a very famous quote ("if you want to hide the treasure then put it in plain sight and no one will find it") has been around MUCH longer than that. Many languages have their own versions of it. The definition is simply "seemingly hidden but actually not hidden and easy to find".To me, "hiding in plain sight" just means that the dude isn't "hiding" at all. He's just going on about his daily business as usual. He's "hiding" in that he's not. I use the exact same phrase when my daughter can't find her shoes because they're "lost" (when, in actuality, they're right there in the middle of the floor). At our county Easter egg hunt a few weeks ago that's the first thing they shouted to the kids as they ran off with their baskets: "Remember kids, most of these are hidden in plain sight! Don't look too hard!"

IMO there's no way to "misuse" the phrase because the official meaning of the phrase is about as general as it can be; it can be used to fit a variety of situations and is therefore subjective to the meaning given to it by the speaker.