Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[somequestions]

A lot happens in 28 months. For a case to be unsolved this long with audio and pictures of the suspect leads me to believe it wont ever be solved unless something drastic happens.

I would have done exactly what they are doing if I had nothing, ask for the public's help and if that still leads to nothing, theres absolutely nothing that can happen unless the suspect messes up himself.

I think that with going in a new direction, it still has to be the right direction in the investigation. It really looks like the investigators in the Delphi murders case are basing their direction on the opinion that the killer would have to know the Monon High Bridge area and therefore be local in some way to the city of Delphi, IN. I think these "sketches" are of suspicious individuals who have not been identified by police as being out there in the Monon High Bridge area on the day of the murders.

I still think this case can be solved especially if the person Liberty German captured on her cell phone is indeed the killer. I just hope it does not take years to solve it.

 

[janewall]

Respectfully snipped for focus.
A very important point you made here.
This Perp was seemingly (speculation), loaded up with murderous tools and scaling this scary and dangerous bridge adeptly, with apparent speed to catch the girls. This leads me to speculate whether he was very accustomed to running across the bridge on a dare, or works in an occupation where he is accustomed to maneuvering at heights:
Construction, tree-trimer, forestry, window washer, firefighter, roofer....

This is someone who used to play and race across the bridge on dares. This is someone who is comfortable working at heights, and probably gets a thrill from it. Otherwise, he would have lay in wait on the ground for the girls. The height was part of the thrill.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Your mention of the killer's speed in catching up to the girls, and possible experience running across the bridge, makes me think that the bridge's height (and dilapidated condition) was not merely part of the thrill for him, but an integral part of his plan. IMO comparatively few people would be willing to run on that or any similar bridge. I dare say neither girl would - and especially Abby, who if reports that she wasn't allowed on the bridge are correct may never have set foot on it before.

He may have counted on their tentative pace crossing the bridge creating the time he could catch up to them from further back on the trail or from a hiding place near the north end of the bridge, without their being able to run away. If the girls noticed him closing on them very quickly while one (Abby) or both were still crossing, especially if they'd seen no one behind them when they started across, that may be the reason Libby started video recording his approach.

 

[Charlot123]

Libby didn’t have her own phone that day? I’m very interested in the source for that information.

It is from the same source where BP talks about Libby doing factory reset on own phone the previous day, I have no clue what YouTube it is but it was BP.

 

[Thelastleg]

The cemetery is indicated on the map, near the top and a bit to the left.

Thanks, when I put my glasses on I could see it was clearly marked. Sorry for wasting your time. Great map by the way

 

[tresir2012]

Your mention of the killer's speed in catching up to the girls, and possible experience running across the bridge, makes me think that the bridge's height (and dilapidated condition) was not merely part of the thrill for him, but an integral part of his plan. IMO comparatively few people would be willing to run on that or any similar bridge. I dare say neither girl would - and especially Abby, who if reports that she wasn't allowed on the bridge are correct may never have set foot on it before.

He may have counted on their tentative pace crossing the bridge creating the time he could catch up to them from further back on the trail or from a hiding place near the north end of the bridge, without their being able to run away. If the girls noticed him closing on them very quickly while one (Abby) or both were still crossing, especially if they'd seen no one behind them when they started across, that may be the reason Libby started video recording his approach.

So if the girls had not crossed the bridge to the lonely side they may not have been killed perhaps. Staying off it and on the trail side, would have made the crime more risky for the murderer, if not impossible IMO.

 

[tresir2012]

So how many people would know that RL was not at home?

Neighbours, friends, relatives, anyone who saw his truck gone, someone who knew his habits - did he always go to the dump and Lafayette on Mondays?

 

[Charlot123]

Neighbours, friends, relatives, anyone who saw his truck gone, someone who knew his habits - did he always go to the dump and Lafayette on Mondays?

How long would it take to go to the dump?

(Seeing the truck gone does not give you the time frame. You have to know RL’s habits).

Neighbors, friends, relatives are Delphi. Anyone who knows, no school on Monday, and RL is out for a long time, is Delphi. Much less likely is it the package plant.

Question, is there a house up the hill from RL? (Or, sometimes people have an unpleasant feeling of being observed, and it is not extreme suspiciousness).

I can see LE’s point. The BG does not appear an outsider.

 

[tresir2012]

If a witness does not think the new sketch is a good likeness of BG or the person they saw, then what?

Or if a witness wanted to mislead LE, then what?

 

[tresir2012]

How long would it take to go to the dump?

Seeing the truck gone does not give you the time frame.

Neighbo

Some people are creatures of habit and always do things on certain days and their habits become known over a period of time. Going to the dump of itself would not take long but generally this would be done on the way to or from doing something else as well like shopping for example.
E.g. old fred always goes to market on Mondays so that's when I'll plan it. He's always gone at least 4 or 5 hours. And Dick his neighbour will be at work too.

JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Some people are creatures of habit and always do things on certain days and their habits become known over a period of time. Going to the dump of itself would not take long but generally this would be done on the way to or from doing something else as well like shopping for example.
E.g. old fred always goes to market on Mondays so that's when I'll plan it. He's always gone at least 4 or 5 hours. And Dick his neighbour will be at work too.

JMO.

Exactly. This is the information that the locals are privy to, maybe part of a local gossip. A truck driver or a meat packager would need to do a lot more to find this information.

 

[tresir2012]

How long would it take to go to the dump?

(Seeing the truck gone does not give you the time frame. You have to know RL’s habits).

Neighbors, friends, relatives are Delphi. Anyone who knows, no school on Monday, and RL is out for a long time, is Delphi. Much less likely is it the package plant.

Question, is there a house up the hill from RL? (Or, sometimes people have an unpleasant feeling of being observed, and it is not extreme suspiciousness).

I can see LE’s point. The BG does not appear an outsider.

What's up the hill from RL? Nothing, only the cemetery. Dead men don't tell tales.

Sorry, but I'm even spooking myself out here just thinking about how he must have planned this.

 

[tresir2012]

Exactly. This is the information that the locals are privy to, maybe part of a local gossip. A truck driver or a meat packager would need to do a lot more to find this information.

This is likely LE's thinking now after 2 years. It's understandable.

 

[x_files]

What if RL had a friend who had a son of questionable character? Someone who was acquainted with the property and the bridge from the time he was a young boy? If nothing else, IMHO, this killer oozes familiarity.......with the bridge, the creek and the lay of the land. All speculation, of course.

I like this train of thought.

 

[rainwaterstill]

The main thing with Jake Patterson, he is so inconspicuous. Now, of course, his face is unforgettable, but IRL, I would probably need to see him ten times to remember the face.

This guy, probably, has not been noticed by people. It might be so that they know him but don’t pay much attention to him.

Going back to LE's "hiding in plain sight" remarks.: Nobody would think twice if they saw a vehicle with a (fake) company logo on a truck (you can get company logos on very large peel-off magnet backing- large enough to cover the bottom part of a vehicle door or vehicle side) or someone (apparently) delivering Amazon boxes. A "Joe's Plumbing" van parked in the driveway of a house for a an hour or two would not be very suspicious. (Except the home owners were snowbirds and still in Florida or wherever. )

 

[Cutiekitty]

This is also one of the reasons I don’t believe LE have a prime suspect. Carter didn’t give any indication the case was close to getting solved, just the opposite, it’s only the beginning.

Which I was reminded of below, Feb/18. 42,000+ tips, there ought to be more than a few potential suspects lined up in that queue by now....
“Although a year has passed since the murders of Delphi teens Liberty German and Abigail Williams, Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter says he will not let the case go cold before their killer is found.

I’ve said all along, as long as I’m in this role and breathing, we’re not leaving the City of Delphi in Carroll County, Indiana, we’re just not,” said Carter. “And if we get to the point where we have exhausted the leads that we currently have in the queue then we’re going to start all over again.”

Carter says television has given us an unrealistic expectation about how cases like this work. Just because a detective on TV can solve a crime in 45 minutes doesn’t mean that's how it works in real life.

In real life, Carter says things aren’t always as they appear, detectives don’t reveal their entire hand when they’re investigating a case, and a case isn’t cold just because there hasn’t been an arrest...”

One Year Later: Why the Delphi case isn't cold

That article was a year ago and something changed recently - they uncovered something between the 2 year PC and the April PC IMO. I really don’t think LE switched up the sketch, suspect age range, and stated BG has local ties because they ran down all 42K tips and they are just trying something new - no one knew who OGB is so let’s go with NBG.

Carter asked for patience since they are just beginning. I think they are just beginning to build their case against someone specific. I don’t have access to their case files so I have no clue who that might be and hesitate to guess. It’s just vibes.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

That article was a year ago and something changed recently - they uncovered something between the 2 year PC and the April PC IMO. I really don’t think LE switched up the sketch, suspect age range, and stated BG has local ties because they ran down all 42K tips and they are just trying something new - no one knew who OGB is so let’s go with NBG.

Carter asked for patience since they are just beginning. I think they are just beginning to build their case against someone specific. I don’t have access to their case files so I have no clue who that might be and hesitate to guess. It’s just vibes.

Quoted BBM
Nailed it!

I'm thinking that one of the mistakes that the killer made wasn't necessarily at the crime scene, but perhaps well after the crime had taken place, like as recently as within 6 months of the April presser.

I believe that he did something to 'taunt' LE and that's how they caught onto him, and then promptly switched gears to his direction.

I've mentioned this before...but there was no sketch at the February press conference which leads me to believe that they were onto this guy even before February of this year.

I have the utmost confidence that LE is charging full force ahead in the right direction now.

JMO

 

[Jim_M]

Quoted BBM
Nailed it!

I'm thinking that one of the mistakes that the killer made wasn't necessarily at the crime scene, but perhaps well after the crime had taken place, like as recently as within 6 months of the April presser.

I believe that he did something to 'taunt' LE and that's how they caught onto him, and then promptly switched gears to his direction.

I've mentioned this before...but there was no sketch at the February press conference which leads me to believe that they were onto this guy even before February of this year.

I have the utmost confidence that LE is charging full force ahead in the right direction now.

JMO

We can hope that you are 100% correct on their progress!

 

[bradfordsleuth]

We can hope that you are 100% correct on their progress!

Hope is what we have right now and the faith that I have in LE is unshakable right now as well.

Where some people seem to have lost a little bit of faith in LE's investigation since April, my faith has just grown stronger and stronger every time they release a little tidbit.

(Although I am still completely puzzled by many things, such as how the perp. may end up looking both like sketch #1 and sketch #2 if LE has said they are two different people!)

JMO

 

[SeattleStew]

This just made me think of something. Because it sounds like the bridge is not something many “outsiders” know about and because he seems to be comfortable walking on the bridge it is quite likely he has been to the bridge (and walked on it) many times.

Snipped for focus by me:

"It would be interesting to see if any locals that frequent the bridge may remember seeing someone like this on other occasions that they have previously dismissed as “not being the killer type”.

I say this because I remember reading Ann Rule’s book “Green River Running Red” and it was found that Gary Ridgway’s name had come up previously because he was not a stranger to the areas frequented by prostitutes. When LE talked to several prostitutes in the area they all said he couldn’t be the killer because they had “worked” for him before and nothing bad had happened.

He later admitted that he purposely had “normal” interactions with many of the prostitutes knowing they tended to talk amongst each other - especially at that time when there was fear of a killer focusing on prostitutes - and they would vouch for him being “safe”.

This.

One of my best friends' Dad worked with GR at Kenworth for years. It was smack dab in the middle of GR's "hunting zone". BF's Dad said he was suspected to be the GRK for so long, it became a (sick) "joke" amongst GR and some of his co-workers.

 

[Inthedetails]

I haven't posted on the thread in awhile or kept up with reading, but I do think about this case - it's one that stays with me.

I've been thinking what this case would look like if we didn't have Libby's photos/video/audio? There is no way BG expected her to record him, but I do think he deliberately killed them (this is no accident).

So....without the recordings, the case would be the mysterious disappearance of two teenage girls who were then found dead in a wooded area. It's reasonable to assume they were displayed in some way, not left "as is." The chief said at the April presser to the killer that the girls are not spending eternity in the way you left them (paraphrase), so it seems like the girls were arranged in a certain way that was demeaning.

That seems like a perp who gets off on sullying the girls, sullying the park that people enjoy, and shocking people.

That doesn't sound like a personal revenge crime or a drug killing - sounds like a pervert with sick fantasies.

jmo