Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[bradfordsleuth]

With apologies, another long post from me. Feel free to scroll and roll!

7) No staff from any possible prosecuting office participated in the 4/22 presser.

You see, I think you have laid it out well in that list.

There is obviously something wrong. IDK what that might be.

But, the fact that no prosecutor has been front and center in this investigation for quite some time now is just a big, waving red flag to me....sticking out like a sore thumb.

Something is wrong.

Do you think that there could be dissension between the groups due to the 'different investigative strategy?' or because the DA doesn't think that they can prosecute the case based on a second sketch being released?

Other reasons?

Just me speculating.....

Thank you thank you thank you! For someone finally saying it!
Something IS wrong! Very very wrong! I don’t quite know what it is either but this entire investigation has been infused with it from the get go. Since we’re not privy to anything there’s no telling what it involves, but the “wrong” doesn’t seem to be going away any time soon.

I agree with both you you that something seems wrong in this case....and has from the get-go. I am not saying we are entitled to those answers here and now, but just putting some of my thoughts out there as what seems 'off.'

Some of my observations of things that seem wrong, or strange in this case are:

-the use of the word 'twist' very early on (could be an 'offhand' remark that had way more power than intended . I think it was @mtnlites who suggested this several pages back.)

-Leazenby 'recognizes that voice' and says this in an interview (it means that he has spoken to this person directly at length, or heard their voice at length in order to recognize it but not enough to know who it is)

-LE never mentions that they have cleared any of the witnesses (in some cases that I have followed in the past, you tend to hear that people who are witnesses to seeing a crime or a perpetrator at the scene have been 'cleared' or are not a suspect)

-no sketch displayed at all in February 2019 (This seems to pinpoint that they made their 'turning point' in this case at least prior that time)

-the audio not including the word 'guys' from the get-go (What harm could it have done to release that one word?)

-not releasing the video right from the get-go (again, it could have only helped with their request for tips, especially by asking the public to look at the 'mannerisms' and NOT the killers gait)

-LE being so confident that people are scared to come forward in this case to provide a tip (Why are they so convinced of that?) Also stating that they know it is about power to the killer (Has he taunted them or contacted them?)

-the confounding difference between the first and second sketch that are supposedly two different people but the true killer could end up looking 'somewhere in between the two sketches' (You have all said it in many different ways in this thread and every thread since April 22nd, and I think we are on similar pages on this that it is very confusing.)

-no mention of the reward in the last two press conferences (seems strange to me not to mention it when it could be a huge 'that one tip' motivating factor for a person to call!)

-putting that they have a witness and that the killer made mistakes only in the flyer handed out at the April 22nd presser and not actually having Carter say that during the presser (out of everything that was disclosed that day, those are two really important things that LE could have included in Carters speech. I wonder if the witness isn't simply a witness to seeing the killer in passing that day, but a witness to something else?)

My mind hasn't changed that LE is going to make an arrest in this case...but I was way off base when I thought it was going to happen two months ago.

When that day comes that we know who did this, I hope that we can all come back to this thread to be thankful together that he has finally been stopped.

I hope today is the day.

JMO

 

[TL4S]

Okay, since I'm already riding the crazy train today, here's an idea based on the bits in these articles:
BBM
ISP on Delphi killer: 'Somebody may have already interviewed him'
The importance of the car also ties into why police now believe the killer is local. Riley said after reviewing many tips, investigators determined he was able to get around quickly on the day the girls were killed, and seemed to know the area.

The car would have been seen between noon and five on Feb. 13, 2017 at the old DCS parking lot, according to police.

Indiana State Police releases clarification points on Delphi murder suspect
A car was parked in the abandoned CPS building parking lot between the hours of noon and 5:00 p.m. on February 13, 2017

• We are looking for anyone who could give a description of vehicles that were in the parking lot during the time

Scenario:

BG parks in the old CPS lot, walks the trails, and kills the girls. It's now after 3pm. He gets back to his car and it doesn't work, or he's lost his keys in the woods (hopefully at the CS), whatever. He therefore has to call somebody to help him (either with the car, or for a ride). It takes less than a couple hours to get things straight and for him to get the car out of the lot. Maybe it's the person he called to help him that LE thinks knows something, and they're pleading with. Maybe the YBG witness sees something, like somebody dropping off somebody else in the parking lot, closer to that 5pm time, and BG had changed clothes already?

Hey, I've seen plenty of crazy scenarios on WS...I'm entitled.

 

[Blueberry2720]

Wouldn't it be wild if the key (no pun intended) piece of evidence BG left at the crime scene that LE found, were his car keys.

 

[HopefulSearcher]

Why would LE need the autopsy reports of PE if they have requested his DNA? What additional info will an autopsy report enlighten them with besides weight and height (weight could have changed in 2 yrs)? It won't provide a voice sample or what his gait was like.

Why would LE need the autopsy reports of PE if they have requested his DNA? What additional info will an autopsy report enlighten them with besides weight and height (weight could have changed in 2 yrs)? It won't provide a voice sample or what his gait was like.

I always insert quotes wrong but puppyraiser was asking about the autopsy report for PE. I have a more general question though. Couldn't air be forced up from the diaphragm into the throat and mouth of a body that is in an autopsy and be used with voice recognition technology to find a match? Or of this person was recorded during a standoff talking? So that it could be matched to the vocal recording of BG?

 

[kathryann]

I very rarely post, mostly read, but for a long time I've thought something is weird about this whole case. Don't exactly know what it is. So many cases are solved with less evidence, by total strangers and they figure them out. I have a hard time believing two girls were killed and the person didn't leave evidence or possibly no DNA , no one has a true description of him, no one heard anything, no vehicle was seen, and they have a video and audio recording, especially if its a younger guy. It's baffling and disturbing. I'm not at all saying LE isn't doing their job, I'm amazed that someone doesnt know who this is. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

IMO, referring to that assertion as a fact is a bit generous.

It was stated as a fact so that is why I politely asked for the link. Haven't seen one yet though, so still giving poster benefit of the doubt.

 

[TL4S]

Wouldn't it be wild if the key (no pun intended) piece of evidence BG left at the crime scene that LE found, were his car keys.

Ha! It would be wonderful!

 

[Yuletide]

Exactly, how do you go from saying the first sketch is no longer a POI to then saying but it still may look like the killer a bit?

In the event that the killer used a disguise, both sketches could be the same person

 

[Torch Carrier]

OK I’m going to throw this out there and see what y’all think because this has really been bugging me.
1) Four days after the murders someone comes to the police and says, “ I saw someone doing something and think that should be reported.” LE thinks the info is important enough to have a sketch artist sit down with this person and come up with a sketch. The sketch is of a young man with curly-ish hair on the thin side. For reason we don’t know, the public never sees this sketch until over two years later.
2) LE recovers Libby’s phone and finds that this bright young girl has videoed a man walking across the bridge toward the girls. The video is blurry and a bit out of focus but after observing only a few seconds of the video LE can presumably see easily (as can the public when they are allowed to see it over two years later) that this man on the bridge is a youngish rather thin man.
3) Just a few days later LE has a press conference where they release a picture of the BG and the audio clip. The guy is first a POI and then quickly becomes the suspect. The picture appears to show an older guy(50 give or take), a little overweight with a beer gut. LE’s description of BG reinforces what we see.
4) For the next two years tons of people on WS and the internet dissect this picture and info. The photo is distributed across the country by the media and flyers and posters are sent far and wide by the families. A sketch follows from witnesses. The guy looks a little younger but we get basically the same description from LE. We’re all looking for this older overweight guy with the beer gut, now with reddish blonde hair.
5) Remember, while we are all looking for the older beer gut guy, LE has the early sketch of the young thin guy and the video that appears to show a young thin guy. I feel sure they looked often at that video trying to discern clues.
6) In April LE has a press conference where they release the early sketch and state forcefully that that is the sketch of the killer. LE advises us all to forget about that first sketch they released two years prior. They also release a few seconds of video from the bridge that shows BG is thinner and younger.
My problem: I cannot understand how, for over two years, LE looking at that video showing a younger thinner BG, allowed and encouraged the public to think BG was this older overweight guy. Add to that the sketch they had from days after the murders and....I really don’t get it. When and if they catch this guy and Carter can explain to us why they did certain things, like he claims he can’t wait to do, this is the first thing I want answered.

Great Post!

Possibilities... LE learned that the witness(es) who brought about OBG sketch were lying to throw things off track?

Or, BG was disguised as OBG but actually looks like NBG sketch?

Or, OBG's Identity is now known to them and NBG is partner in crime?

 

[Yuletide]

It is my humble opinion that the biggest mistake made in this case was calling off the search that evening. These were very young girls with a designed drop off and pick up time. The family knew something was wrong immediately.

 

[tresir2012]

Ok here's my two pennorth on the two sketches.
I have always thought Old man sketch was done by Parabon, hence the not blue eyes. They called it a composite and said a witness (she) contributed.
Now something has made them change their thinking to a younger perp, so Parabon gives them Young man sketch, which happens to look similar to a manual sketch done in the week after the murders, which was discounted then because the video, stills and voice indicated someone older. If these two sketches were hand drawn by a sketch artist, they are the best manual sketches I have ever seen and I will eat my news boy hat if that is true.
When they say the perp could be somewhere between the two sketches, that is because they are not sure on the age of this guy. So he could be in between, e.g. 30 years old.
Yes I think they have DNA and they have no match yet but they know the familial line. And the familial line is complex as with a lot of extended families in the Delphi area.
AJMO

 

[tresir2012]

I always insert quotes wrong but puppyraiser was asking about the autopsy report for PE. I have a more general question though. Couldn't air be forced up from the diaphragm into the throat and mouth of a body that is in an autopsy and be used with voice recognition technology to find a match? Or of this person was recorded during a standoff talking? So that it could be matched to the vocal recording of BG?

Wouldn't it just be easier to ask his relatives if the recording sounds like him? Good point about recording the standoff convo.

 

[Nerissa]

I'm thinking the 'getting around quickly' comment has more to do with the perp being able to get to the park, from the park & then back to somewhere else to have a believable/confirmed alibi.....

If this is the case: stands to reason they have a fairly good idea of who the perp is OR it's merely their speculation that if this person is local & the alibi a lie - he must have been able to hustle to make it work.....

Fits one theory I have - & that is whomever he is he was privy to the information, somehow, that Abby & Libby were headed to the park - he 'got around quickly' to pull this off

JMO

 

[tresir2012]

colored contacts?

There you go. He's got blue eyes but brown contacts.

 

[tresir2012]

It is my humble opinion that the biggest mistake made in this case was calling off the search that evening. These were very young girls with a designed drop off and pick up time. The family knew something was wrong immediately.

Some of us agree but as has been stated it would not have made any difference because BG was seen leaving by a witness at 2.47 and LE said the murder was over in minutes.

 

[Yuletide]

Some of us agree but as has been stated it would not have made any difference because BG was seen leaving by a witness at 2.47 and LE said the murder was over in minutes.

But it may have caused the “complicated twist” LE referred to. The crime scene was unattended for nearly 24 hours, leaving the window open for innocent contamination

 

[Torch Carrier]

LE saying he "got around quickly" makes me think they MUST have someone particular in mind, no? And that someone quickly placed himself elsewhere before and after?

 

[StarryStarryNight]

They can’t give more information because they don’t have any, or it’s information they need to keep in order to prosecute after arrest. They don’t need the public to investigate, they need someone who personally knows BG, recognizes him from the video/audio, and calls in a tip. So the only public they need is someone who knows BG.

The reason for the change in sketch? IMO they reached a dead end and as LE on this case have said, no case is a cold case, they simply start from scratch. That’s it. They started over from scratch.

I don’t think they know who it is, I don’t think there is hidden meaning in any of the pressers, it’s simple. All they have is this video and audio (I’m not even confident they have dna of BG). So the one tip they need is someone who recognizes him and that knows he could have been in the area that day.

MOO

I think you are absolutely right! Yea, LE needs that one piece of the puzzle. The issue is, to LE, the puzzle itself only consists of one piece! The piece where someone tells them who did it.
I also think they have virtually no evidence and certainly no DNA.

 

[TL4S]

LE saying he "got around quickly" makes me think they MUST have someone particular in mind, no? And that someone quickly placed himself elsewhere before and after?

The "get around quickly" statement came alongside the YBG sketch and the question about the vehicle parked at CPS. We know the sketch was made within days of the killings, so I wonder about the other two pieces of information. Maybe these tips all came together as one back then, but didn't seem to mean anything until just recently?

 

[sumzero]

I think you are absolutely right! Yea, LE needs that one piece of the puzzle. The issue is, to LE, the puzzle itself only consists of one piece! The piece where someone tells them who did it.
I also think they have virtually no evidence and certainly no DNA.

I think you're right. The missing piece is the same piece that keeps thousands of other murder cases from being solved: who did it. I do think they've got DNA from an unidentified source. But until they match it to someone, they don't know if it belongs to the killer or to someone else (DNA randomly picked up somewhere). I also wouldn't be surprised if the persons depicted in the two sketches both had nothing to do with the murders. LE has already ruled out the person depicted in the first sketch. The person depicted in the second sketch, if they determine his identity, may also have nothing to do with the murders. We don't even know where the witness saw this individual. LE certainly didn't give the witness account much credibility to begin with.