Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

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  • #1,281
Has there been any info in press conference or MSM about the couple under the bridge that would exclude the possibility that it may have been BG and one of the girls?
I've seen nothing about who it was. There was an article posted here that had a young girl speaking about being there that day but I can't find the post. Maybe it was some other kids there that day?
 
  • #1,282
Is there a posted timeline of everything - drop off, sightings by witnesses, pictures posted, BG video - that someone can direct me to?

The couple under the bridge - were they fighting? I have read that a few times, not sure if it's verified or not. Was that from CE who was there at 2:49? She also saw a lone man?

The man that Libby's father and CE saw - was he dressed like BG? Was BG, in his BG outfit, ever seen by a witness?

Is there any part of the stream/river that is shallow enough to cross without getting your pants soaking wet? Is it possible BG did come back on the bridge right after the killings to be sighted purposely? Like, here I am alone and not bloody and frazzled, couldn't be me type of thing?
 
  • #1,283
The couple under the bridge - were they fighting? I have read that a few times, not sure if it's verified or not. Was that from CE who was there at 2:49? She also saw a lone man?
I am wondering about that couple now that the rest of the timeline seems to be questionable & the reenactment is not completely correct. IF one of the girls was pushed off the bridge only the remaining girl would need to walk with BG down the hill and be easier to control. IF that happened then it may appear as if there are only 2 people (couple) under the bridge to witnesses.
 
  • #1,284
We did used to feel that way till LE said none of the reenactments got it right, which put us back at the beginning. I just read a heavy.com article that stated the SC was posted at 2 PM and a female witness stated she was at the bridge shortly after that but didn't see anyone except another couple under the bridge. (Was that the girls I wonder?) So she didn't seemingly see BG. She went over the bridge and took pictures so where were the girls then?
It is certainly very strange that nobody even saw them except apparently one other woman, who also saw BG.
All very strange IMO.
Could this “couple” under the bridge been one of the girls and BG? Had he killed the other or the other got away? He couldn’t control both, and likely came for one(premeditated). One girls runs for help but realizes she needs to stay to help the other. He then killed the one he was arguing with and found the other on the other side of the creek. BG carries the one girl across the creek or orders her across but doesn’t have to carry the other as she is already there. Or he just orders her across the creek. Perhaps the one that got away is there to help. They’re inseparable. He kills both on the other side. The witness just may have heard the BG and the girls. Can she identify the voice? Is the new sketch that of the male of the “couple” when LE says there was a witness? Did everything change when they realized that this “couple” was actually BG and one of the girls? No “couple” under the bridge comes forward to say “that was us.” Maybe this was discussed already but think about the words of LE and their “strategy” changing. BG and one of the girls is the “couple” arguing under the bridge.MOO
 
  • #1,285
Is there a posted timeline of everything - drop off, sightings by witnesses, pictures posted, BG video - that someone can direct me to?

The couple under the bridge - were they fighting? I have read that a few times, not sure if it's verified or not. Was that from CE who was there at 2:49? She also saw a lone man?

The man that Libby's father and CE saw - was he dressed like BG? Was BG, in his BG outfit, ever seen by a witness?

Is there any part of the stream/river that is shallow enough to cross without getting your pants soaking wet? Is it possible BG did come back on the bridge right after the killings to be sighted purposely? Like, here I am alone and not bloody and frazzled, couldn't be me type of thing?
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps

May not have everything you're looking for, but this is the map other people have directed me to.
 
  • #1,286
Abigail Williams & Liberty German. Delphi, IN. 2/13/17 - Google My Maps

May not have everything you're looking for, but this is the map other people have directed me to.

Looking at this map....why would anyone be under the bridge? No trails, just woods, right? The couple were seen at 2:49? Were they definitely seen or just heard? Have they been spoken to? I would think anyone there at the bridge that day would be fully aware of the case and come forward. So they should be cleared or it's probably BG with the girls if no couple has come forward and CE just didn't see one. If this is even a true story?
 
  • #1,287
The witness sighting came from a FB post? I’m skeptical about it now.
It originated from the witness herself then was published in MSM (the article I linked) then also referred to by Gray Hughes several times. Once it hits MSM or GH it becomes quotable on WS. I think it is believable as photos also backed the times up IIRC.
 
  • #1,288
Looking at this map....why would anyone be under the bridge? No trails, just woods, right? The couple were seen at 2:49? Were they definitely seen or just heard? Have they been spoken to? I would think anyone there at the bridge that day would be fully aware of the case and come forward. So they should be cleared or it's probably BG with the girls if no couple has come forward and CE just didn't see one. If this is even a true story?
It is not mentioned which end of the bridge they were seen. I would guess it was the North end where it goes over the Creek, as the south end is on private land and would be classed as trespassing. Two separate witnesses saw them and I would think they have come forward, as only BG has not come forward AFAIK. MOO
 
  • #1,289
The witness sighting came from a FB post? I’m skeptical about it now.

Hi Cutiekitty,

CME replied to a FB post by a family member saying the quote in the message you replied to stating she walked across the bridge, saw a guy, then saw a couple, but didn’t see the girls. I’m not skeptical at all. She never stated she saw the man who was in the video on Liberty’s phone. “A guy” could be any male. Not necessarily BG or FSG or Liberty’s dad. Could be a jogger, hiker, dog walker, etc.

JMO

RIP M+J
 
  • #1,290
I measured out the entire trail from the CPS lot, to the south end of the bridge, back across the bridge and into the woods to the CS, then back. This is only my guess on the route BG took, and the measurements are estimates. And it's assuming the witness statements are accurate to BG.

This article says the average time to hike a mile is around 30 min., give or take for terrain (ie. - bridge).
Determine How Long to Hike a Mile

IMO, based on the measurements, the timeline works out uncomfortably well if the murders happened quickly.

Red squares are pre-murders, green squares are post-murders.
That's good info. If they went straight across creek it looks like it would cut about 15 mins off that time .
 
  • #1,291
Looking at this map....why would anyone be under the bridge? No trails, just woods, right? The couple were seen at 2:49? Were they definitely seen or just heard? Have they been spoken to? I would think anyone there at the bridge that day would be fully aware of the case and come forward. So they should be cleared or it's probably BG with the girls if no couple has come forward and CE just didn't see one. If this is even a true story?

Hi flashy09,

People would be under the bridge because before Abby and Libby were murdered there was a geocache hidden under the bridge. “Geocaching” is not allowed to be discussed in these threads because at the very beginning (Feb or March 2017) inappropriate sleuthing was done and the topic was deemed taboo by the mods.

HTH.
RIP M+J
 
  • #1,292
Could this “couple” under the bridge been one of the girls and BG? Had he killed the other or the other got away? He couldn’t control both, and likely came for one(premeditated). One girls runs for help but realizes she needs to stay to help the other. He then killed the one he was arguing with and found the other on the other side of the creek. BG carries the one girl across the creek or orders her across but doesn’t have to carry the other as she is already there. Or he just orders her across the creek. Perhaps the one that got away is there to help. They’re inseparable. He kills both on the other side. The witness just may have heard the BG and the girls. Can she identify the voice? Is the new sketch that of the male of the “couple” when LE says there was a witness? Did everything change when they realized that this “couple” was actually BG and one of the girls? No “couple” under the bridge comes forward to say “that was us.” Maybe this was discussed already but think about the words of LE and their “strategy” changing. BG and one of the girls is the “couple” arguing under the bridge.MOO
I wondered about that but I think the witnesses would have identified one of the couple as one of the girls if that was the case so I would say no. Do you have a source link for the couple arguing? I have never seen a source so wonder if that is just rumour? BG is the only person who has not come forward from that day AFAIK which is why he became the suspect.
 
  • #1,293
Just a thought about the timeline... the 2:30 (ish) “sighting” of BG that was on some of the billboards may not have been the time on the video when Libby was filming him in the bridge. It might be the end time of the video when he was no longer seen or heard.

JMO
RIP M+J
 
  • #1,294
That's good info. If they went straight across creek it looks like it would cut about 15 mins off that time .
Yeah, almost any way you get them all from the south end of bridge to the crime scene, it can fit into that 2:30 TOD timeline, IMO.
 
  • #1,295
Looking at this map....why would anyone be under the bridge? No trails, just woods, right? The couple were seen at 2:49? Were they definitely seen or just heard? Have they been spoken to? I would think anyone there at the bridge that day would be fully aware of the case and come forward. So they should be cleared or it's probably BG with the girls if no couple has come forward and CE just didn't see one. If this is even a true story?
I would hope they came forward also. Maybe who or what they saw has them in fear? Maybe the reason they were under the bridge was to do something illegal? It has been discussed that under the bridge was a hangout of sorts.
 
  • #1,296
I measured out the entire trail from the CPS lot, to the south end of the bridge, back across the bridge and into the woods to the CS, then back. This is only my guess on the route BG took, and the measurements are estimates. And it's assuming the witness statements are accurate to BG.

This article says the average time to hike a mile is around 30 min., give or take for terrain (ie. - bridge).
Determine How Long to Hike a Mile

IMO, based on the measurements, the timeline works out uncomfortably well if the murders happened quickly.

Red squares are pre-murders, green squares are post-murders.
Wow! Very Impressive! Nice work TL4S !
 
  • #1,297
  • #1,298
Wow! Very Impressive! Nice work TL4S !
I must be a visual learner - I need maps. :)

Honestly, laying out the measurements and seeing how closely it could fit the timeline...makes me sick. How cruel for BG to get so lucky for an open window of opportunity.
 
  • #1,299
I measured out the entire trail from the CPS lot, to the south end of the bridge, back across the bridge and into the woods to the CS, then back. This is only my guess on the route BG took, and the measurements are estimates. And it's assuming the witness statements are accurate to BG.

This article says the average time to hike a mile is around 30 min., give or take for terrain (ie. - bridge).
Determine How Long to Hike a Mile

IMO, based on the measurements, the timeline works out uncomfortably well if the murders happened quickly.

Red squares are pre-murders, green squares are post-murders.

Great job!
Can I ask how 1:40 is the start time for BG?
 
  • #1,300
Great job!
Can I ask how 1:40 is the start time for BG?
Just a guess, to be honest, with the consideration that BG might have seen the girls dropped off at 1:38 and drove to the CPS lot to park. In any case, even if he'd already been on the trail that day, I think he stayed behind the girls, following them on the trail before they crossed the bridge. The important times are the SC photo and the video, which we don't know for certain. But the more I look at the map, the more likely I think it is the crime happened earlier than I previously thought, which makes the pieces fall together in my mind. I think the "down the hill" was very near 2:30. JMO

The map isn't perfect, so admittedly full of errors. It's my attempt to visualize the distances. :)
 
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