Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #110

[Pedrosmom]

I think you're right. What do they do if it doesn't work? And does it mean they have no DNA? :-(

What if it is the opposite and they’re trying to get his dna? I’ve seen cases where the suspect doesn’t leave any dna in public, doesn’t take out garbage, goes out of their way to avoid LE getting a dna sample. I think they have DNA and unfortunately more than they expected due to what the girls were wearing. I think they have some unknowns and they just can’t get his. MOO

 

[TL4S]

I'm wondering if LE has any idea at all. They talk like they know who did it, but maybe just need more evidence to make an arrest, but if that's the case why give such a huge age range?
I mean, if they have a very strong suspect, and that guy is 38 years old and they know this, why say 18-40 years old? Why not say late thirties?

That's just my example but I'd think if they had a super strong suspect at all, then they'd tighten that age range down a bit to let the public know more who they're looking for/at. This makes me think they actually don't have a clue and their comments are just to psych out the guy and make him nervous.

Yes. And through the two sketches, other than the age range, the rest of the description has remained relatively unchanged, down to the hair color. To me that indicates they have evidence, but no suspect. JMO

 

[JnRyan]

I know, my brain is going in twenty different directions trying to figure this out. The only times I feel confident in, based on family phone records, are that the girls were dropped off at 1:38, and the first unanswered phone call was at 3:11.

The girls look to be about 1/3 the way across the bridge in the SC photo, but we don't know the exact time that photo was taken. The 2:07 timestamp is questionable. That's nearly a half hour to go 2000 feet. Yes, they could have been messing around, taking photos, etc., but I guess my point is I'm just not convinced they took that long. I could be way wrong, though.

And then if we believe the FBI billboard 2:30 "last seen" time is the bridge video, that would indicate to me that BG got on the bridge no earlier than 2:20 (All MOO). IMO, that puts the girls basically on the other side of the bridge before BG even got on. IDK. It just doesn't make sense to me.

None of the timing does.

I wonder about that myself. Doesn't the trail split at some point? One going to the high bridge and the other going east or northeast? Could the girls have taken the other one first? I think of one scenario where the girls take another trail and see the killer and maybe something about him creeps them out. Then they walk out onto the bridge. Or as you pointed out the bridge was their goal but they just messed around taking photos on the way there. There could be the time gap between 1:38 and 2:07.

The 2:07 of the SC photo to the approximately 2:30 at the south end I have a tougher time with. That is quite a time gap for that distance even over the bridge. Was Abigail very apprehensive about crossing and therefore that accounts for it? Did they get to the south end, go down the hill for a bit and were on their way back? I don't think this second is very likely as it appeared the killer's photo was taken as he was catching up to Abigail. Unless the girls had started back and they saw him coming and decided they didn't want to pass him on the bridge and walked back to the south end.

 

[tresir2012]

What if it is the opposite and they’re trying to get his dna? I’ve seen cases where the suspect doesn’t leave any dna in public, doesn’t take out garbage, goes out of their way to avoid LE getting a dna sample. I think they have DNA and unfortunately more than they expected due to what the girls were wearing. I think they have some unknowns and they just can’t get his. MOO

They would try a close relative then surely?

 

[TL4S]

I wonder about that myself. Doesn't the trail split at some point? One going to the high bridge and the other going east or northeast? Could the girls have taken the other one first? I think of one scenario where the girls take another trail and see the killer and maybe something about him creeps them out. Then they walk out onto the bridge. Or as you pointed out the bridge was their goal but they just messed around taking photos on the way there. There could be the time gap between 1:38 and 2:07.

The 2:07 of the SC photo to the approximately 2:30 at the south end I have a tougher time with. That is quite a time gap for that distance even over the bridge. Was Abigail very apprehensive about crossing and therefore that accounts for it? Did they get to the south end, go down the hill for a bit and were on their way back? I don't think this second is very likely as it appeared the killer's photo was taken as he was catching up to Abigail. Unless the girls had started back and they saw him coming and decided they didn't want to pass him on the bridge and walked back to the south end.

Right. It's all a confusing mess. IMO, LE has done their job well in keeping things under wraps. At this point, only the killer will know what's what.

 

[FreshEyes]

Media thread page 39 post by the foreigner.

Thanks. That helps a little. Still not convinced these sightings are really BG. Would like to hear an interview with one of the actual witnesses.

 

[tresir2012]

Right. It's all a confusing mess. IMO, LE has done their job well in keeping things under wraps. At this point, only the killer will know what's what.

Unless he was messed up on meth or some other stuff and doesn't remember. Could that happen? I remember Kevin Sweat when he shot the two girls on the side of the road, he said he thought they were monsters.

Taylor and Skylar were the girls names. I will post the link to the thread.

 

[TL4S]

Thanks. That helps a little. Still not convinced these sightings are really BG. Would like to hear an interview with one of the actual witnesses.

For all we know, YBG sketch more closely resembles the suspect (according to LE) merely because it fits the FBI profile better. If Carter says BG will end up being a combination between the sketches, than I don't put as much stock into the sketches themselves as the description, which has only changed in age, and which I think is based more on evidence found at the CS and in Libby's video/audio. Just my thoughts.

 

[tresir2012]

Thanks. That helps a little. Still not convinced these sightings are really BG. Would like to hear an interview with one of the actual witnesses.

You won't hear that until court. You need to watch all the videos that went with the timeline - unless you have already. The family member spoke with the main witness.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm very much in agreement with you about the witness statements. I started making the map measurements just for myself, to see if the witness timelines made sense. They do, but in the back of my mind, I keep wondering how they had the times so precise? Were these people taking photos that they later referred to? Did GH or someone else influence those precise times? Were there so few people on the trail at the time that when they saw the video, they were sure they'd seen someone like that? Those are all valid questions, and the very reason I can't put a lot of weight into the witness statements alone.

It's a little unnerving to me how well the timeline fits, however. Almost too perfectly. That's why I wonder where those precise times came from.

All that being said, I do think 15 minutes is realistic. That's a long time. JMO

Also I think you have to consider in FSG's case, he supposedly saw the suspect twice. That might make his description a bit better. And then that witness who said they had previously seen and interacted with a person matching the first released BG images. Interaction with someone would also help a witness remember a stranger's characteristics.

I would be firm in thinking the OBG sketch was a totally separate person on the trails that day from the NBG sketch if not for ISP Carter's saying killer will probably be a combination of the two sketches. That has made considering the validity of the eye witnesses versions very difficult and it entices one to consider all sorts of scenarios that probably don't relate to the crimes at all.

 

[sunshineray]

Has it been verified Kik was used?
I am trying to keep up with the thread, but it’s weighty.

Even if it poofed, there is still a way to extract the “transaction”, although requires very sophisticated measures. It can be done.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I was just reading the same. KIK can also, on their end, find a person if provided their username. Police techs can recover some info from KIK on a phone...not as much as they'd like, but some.

 

[sunshineray]

LE has publicly stated that the two sketches ARE NOT the same person.

Yes but the ISP Carter stated later one it could wind up being a combination of the two.

"In a news briefing on April 22, Indiana State Police released new evidence in their investigation including a sketch of a man they say is now the main suspect in Libby and Abby's murders. The man in the first sketch, which was released in July 2017, is no longer considered a suspect.
"When we decided that, through the information we received, that we were going to release the second sketch I don’t believe the individual knew we were going to do that. So it was really, really important. I think he was probably there and/or watching, simply because he thought we were on the wrong path," Carter said."

"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

 

[FinePrint]

I keep reading here on the thread that FSG saw BG twice, once on the trails and once near FB. I had always thought FSG saw BG just once on the trails that day.

Am I confused...I have always thought that DG saw FSG at the trail head and then again at the FB when first arriving and looking for the girls. Not FSG seeing BG twice but DG seeing FSG twice?

 

[Cutiekitty]

I think you're right. What do they do if it doesn't work? And does it mean they have no DNA? :-(

I think @Pedrosmom might be right too. Doesn’t necessarily mean they do not have DNA.

 

[Justice101]

Still following. Daily check in, wish there was more news

 

[tresir2012]

I keep reading here on the thread that FSG saw BG twice, once on the trails and once near FB. I had always thought FSG saw BG just once on the trails that day.

Am I confused...I have always thought that DG saw FSG at the trail head and then again at the FB when first arriving and looking for the girls. Not FSG seeing BG twice but DG seeing FSG twice?

Stop confusing me please.
Could it be both?

Yes but the ISP Carter stated later one it could wind up being a combination of the two.

"In a news briefing on April 22, Indiana State Police released new evidence in their investigation including a sketch of a man they say is now the main suspect in Libby and Abby's murders. The man in the first sketch, which was released in July 2017, is no longer considered a suspect.
"When we decided that, through the information we received, that we were going to release the second sketch I don’t believe the individual knew we were going to do that. So it was really, really important. I think he was probably there and/or watching, simply because he thought we were on the wrong path," Carter said."

"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders

Somewhere between the two sketches. So about age 37?

 

[tresir2012]

I think @Pedrosmom might be right too. Doesn’t necessarily mean they do not have DNA.

Yep. And doesn’t necessarily mean they do. Bluff and double bluff.
This is like playing yo yo.

 

[FinePrint]

Stop confusing me please.
Could it be both?



Somewhere between the two sketches. So about 37?

Just saying...I'm going from memory here but on the GH interview with BP she described when DG first got there. He saw FSG at trailhead then headed down the trail leading to the creek (not the bridge trail). He then went back towards the trailhead and headed to the the FB and once again ran into FSG. This is were I'm seeing the double sighting.. of FSG not BG.....oh please, I just can't do it again (watch the GH interview)!!! I think I might have to though.

Anyone have a reference to the two sightings of BG by FSG???? Is this just confusion?

 

[FinePrint]

Just saying...I'm going from memory here but on the GH interview with BP she described when DG first got there. He saw FSG at trailhead then headed down the trail leading to the creek (not the bridge trail). He then went back towards the trailhead and headed to the the FB and once again ran into FSG. This is were I'm seeing the double sighting.. of FSG not BG.....oh please, I just can't do it again (watch the GH interview)!!! I think I might have to though.

Anyone have a reference to the two sightings of BG by FSG???? Is this just confusion?

So I confirmed what I had recalled. DG first saw FSG by the trailhead and then again he "passed the older gentlemen" (FSG) by the Freedom Bridge.

23:13 mark.

I have no idea where it was said that FSG saw BG twice.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[sunshineray]

Stop confusing me please.
Could it be both?
ummm possibly


Somewhere between the two sketches. So about age 37?

In reading that quote again, it could read like ISP Carter was saying a combination of the photo and the NBG sketch. Another poster aways back quoted him and it sounded like he was saying a combination of the two sketchs. Maybe it's just a case of different journalists reporting being worded slightly different and therefore confused it?

"The sketch isn’t a photograph. A sketch is a sketch and that’s really important for everybody to understand," Carter said. "I believe that the individual when we catch him, it will be a combination of those two.”

The above makes it seems first sketch released is not in the mix, I'm going with that.