Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

[TL4S]

Question / thinking about something:

We know that early on LE had mentioned the possibility of BG walking down the Hoosier Heartland Pkwy with a duffel bag.

A few things about this. Why specifically a duffel bag and not perhaps say a back pack, just wondering.

More importantly, this indicates to me that they think he had something with him that would require a bag.

Change of clothes, kill kit...

I’m thinking more about this “change of clothes” scenario and thinking there could be 3 reasons for a change of clothes:

1. Bloody
2. Soaking wet from the creek
3. Changing clothes so as to appear different from the man in the area, had anyone seen him, ensuring a cleaner getaway.

Any other reasons why he would have a change of clothes?

Maybe took something from the scene, their clothing...(seems odd but if there was evidence on it)...Also if he was going to take a souvenir I wouldn’t think it would be large clothing items (has that ever happened before?)

We know that there is no bag seen with him on the bridge, so if he had something it was likely left on the other side of bridge near the trail when he first spotted the girls? Which would mean he would have had to have backtracked back across the bridge to retrieve the bag after the murders—would this be a correct line of thinking?

If so, this would indicate that he didn’t necessarily have the bag with him when the murders occurred.

So maybe that’s why he had the stuff sticking out of his coat, because he had to grab it real quick out of the bag to go after them on the bridge—he didn’t want to carry the bag on the bridge.

LE seemed to think he might have a bag with him. Why?

Perhaps they thought he would have a bag if he was a nomad /drifter (likely, imo).

Or if he was fishing maybe would have supplies....tackle box, etc.

But why a duffel bag? The drifters I know/see have those big back packs.

Perhaps this potentially correlated with BG1? Was BG1 a drifter?

Just some thoughts today.

ETA: iirc there was podcast which I never got a chance to listen to, if someone could please bump, tia. It had “Maureen” on it, iirc, and iirc that was the podcast which said BG1 might have been the RSO, who apparently was ruled out as there obviously is no arrest...But not really bc it could be combination of the two?

This is all so confusing. This sketch business.

I don't know that I have much to add to your questions, but I've been curious about the early references to the man walking along Hoosier Heartland Hwy, too. Especially with regards to the car sitting in the CPS lot area. The two seem to play off each other if BG decided to go a roundabout way back to his car after the murders, walking the hwy back instead of the trails.

See somebody walking near Delphi? Call police
"We're asking people that were driving down the Hoosier Heartland that might have seen a hitchhiker or someone walking. We're asking people that live in Logansport all the way to Lafayette, if they saw somebody late that afternoon, that evening of Monday the 13th, if they saw somebody walking down the roadway that just did not look like they should be there, or they're just a hitchhiker, we would like to talk to that person," said Sgt. Kim Riley, Indiana State Police.

 

[tresir2012]

Question / thinking about something:

We know that early on LE had mentioned the possibility of BG walking down the Hoosier Heartland Pkwy with a duffel bag.

A few things about this. Why specifically a duffel bag and not perhaps say a back pack, just wondering.

More importantly, this indicates to me that they think he had something with him that would require a bag.

Change of clothes, kill kit...

I’m thinking more about this “change of clothes” scenario and thinking there could be 3 reasons for a change of clothes:

1. Bloody
2. Soaking wet from the creek
3. Changing clothes so as to appear different from the man in the area, had anyone seen him, ensuring a cleaner getaway.

Any other reasons why he would have a change of clothes?

Maybe took something from the scene, their clothing...(seems odd but if there was evidence on it)...Also if he was going to take a souvenir I wouldn’t think it would be large clothing items (has that ever happened before?)

We know that there is no bag seen with him on the bridge, so if he had something it was likely left on the other side of bridge near the trail when he first spotted the girls? Which would mean he would have had to have backtracked back across the bridge to retrieve the bag after the murders—would this be a correct line of thinking?

If so, this would indicate that he didn’t necessarily have the bag with him when the murders occurred.

So maybe that’s why he had the stuff sticking out of his coat, because he had to grab it real quick out of the bag to go after them on the bridge—he didn’t want to carry the bag on the bridge.

LE seemed to think he might have a bag with him. Why?

Perhaps they thought he would have a bag if he was a nomad /drifter (likely, imo).

Or if he was fishing maybe would have supplies....tackle box, etc.

But why a duffel bag? The drifters I know/see have those big back packs.

Perhaps this duffel bag business potentially correlates with BG1? Was BG1 a drifter?

Just some thoughts today.

ETA: iirc there was podcast which I never got a chance to listen to, if someone could please bump, tia. It had “Maureen” on it, iirc, and iirc that was the podcast which said BG1 might have been the RSO, who apparently was ruled out as there obviously is no arrest...But not really bc it could be combination of the two?

This is all so confusing. This sketch business.

Some people have suggested he had a backpack on his front under his jacket as he looks bulky. He could have taken off any outer items and put them in the bag and completely changed his look to depart, after washing any mud off in the creek. May have had a change of jeans even. MOO.


Something like this?

TOMMY BAHAMA Duffle Weekender Gym Travel Sports Overnight Bag Rope Handles NEW! | eBay

 

[Rural_PC]

Hi,
First time poster-hope you don’t mind me suggesting this, but....is it possible that the witness who reported something they felt was suspicious, was reporting BG removing a mask?
Thanks for listening...

This has been brought up before. I am one who thinks there may be something to it. Others do not believe the disguise theory.

 

[margarita25]

You know last night I was talking about the celebration we are going to have when there’s an arrest...

I just remembered how I/we felt after the Watts case and when CW was sentenced...(“Now Bailiff, please take this man and escort him to the Department of Corrections for the rest of his life...(rewind)...”Now Bailiff, please take this man and escort him to the...”)—Of course we were all happy about this but ultimately it was all just SAD. The loss of those beautiful souls...All the lives affected...

I wonder again if he has a family of his own...wife, kids...

Or will he turn out to be one of these loner types like many of these mass shooters...

How has he gotten away with this... @MassGuy I really think he’s more than just lucky. He went in there, did his thing, came right back out and disappeared. Stealth...speed...man on a mission...
Came with a plan, found some victims..he knew there would be some...I think he’s done this before and I think he’ll do it again...in fact he probably already has...perhaps if we dig....the challenge is the crimes may not be that similar if he has different MOs or changed his approach...has he maybe gone (back) to targeting more “convenient” targets, say prostitutes...he may have chosen a new hunting ground in another state..near or far...he may want to avoid ISP...of course we know LE all over the country has eyes, and there’s the FBI but...

 

[Tajuna52]

No, sorry- I wasn’t suggesting he was in disguise-that has been suggested by many of you as you say-but I have been thinking about the witness reporting something they thought was suspicious. I have just been thinking over and over what it may have been that warranted reporting. (Burying something-a weapon or tool or ‘removing a disguise/mask’?

 

[Boxer]

Carter said this in a recent interview and mentioned a 1000 searchers the first night. LE had stood down at approx 11 p.m. but some searchers were there till 3 a.m. I believe. MOO

But I thought no searchers were east of the MHB.
I am sure all the trail exits formal and informal were trampled free of exit evidence, but IIRC the CS itself had only a single search party approach it and call in immediately.

 

[tresir2012]

But I thought no searchers were east of the MHB.
I am sure all the trail exits formal and informal were trampled free of exit evidence, but IIRC the CS itself had only a single search party approach it and call in immediately.

I did refer to this in my later message, see below.

500 pairs of feet and ATV's tramping all around the bridge and the trails would have contaminated the immediate area. Hopefully not the crime scene area where the bodies were found as it is generally believed that was not searched until 14th Feb.

 

[Boxer]

No, sorry- I wasn’t suggesting he was in disguise-that has been suggested by many of you as you say-but I have been thinking about the witness reporting something they thought was suspicious. I have just been thinking over and over what it may have been that warranted reporting. (Burying something-a weapon or tool or ‘removing a disguise/mask’?

MOO it wasn't 'something' until the girls were missing or found.
Then a responsible person would report on anyone or anything at all they saw, as not necessarily suspicious, but that needed to be reported.

 

[susiQ]

Don't religious workers/clergy customarily take Mondays off? I think this was so in the town I grew up in. Is this common practice still, does anyone know? The above post got me thinking. I hadn't thought about the crime and PC both being on Mondays, with the PC the Monday immediately after Easter.

My best friend's father was a Barber. He was off on Monday's

 

[margarita25]

So I wonder, what does LE know that we don’t, that would make us change how we would potentially view this investigation. Would we be further as a team here if we knew what they knew? Of course they have to keep COD, etc., close to the vest, but I wonder IF we DID know, where would we be here now? Maybe nowhere, LE doesn’t have an arrest yet.

I’m looking at Chicago today, moo. That’s my “direction of the day”.

 

[mpnola]

My best friend's father was a Barber. He was off on Monday's

Another option is self employed. I can pretty much work when I want because I run an online business from home.

 

[Charlot123]

Pure speculation and I'm sure we have discussed this before but of everything Carter said in the last press conference the one thing that really sticks with me was when he said "you want to know what we know...." my first impression of that statement and the impression I still hold today is that BG has in some way made communication with LE, similar to the Zodiac.

Something had to have set off that press conference. Why, when they just had the anniversary press conference in February would they come out in April with all this new direction business. Did LE have the press conference in order to communicate back to him. We've all discussed the various things Carter said in that press conference that appear to be directed at the killer, The Shack, his conscience, their not the way you left them and so on....

I really had the feeling that BG had made contact with LE, taunting them.

Maybe I am wrong, but to me BG looks like a complete coward.

While in many serial killers “taunting” behavior is observed (and possibly comes in “cycles”), this guy is probably scared and hiding. Although if he does taunt the police...except more cycles, and they probably kill during cycles as well.

Here, I think, it was a more mundane issue, someone ran into the LE representative and started asking questions that showed too much interest.

MOO

 

[susiQ]

2 shifts....Day 6am to 2:30pm and Night 4:30pm to 1am

I wonder if anyone missed their 4:30 pm shift on Feb. 13th?

 

[Charlot123]

So I wonder, what does LE know that we don’t, that would make us change how we would potentially view this investigation. Would we be further as a team here if we knew what they knew? Of course they have to keep COD, etc., close to the vest, but I wonder IF we DID know, where would we be here now? Maybe nowhere, LE doesn’t have an arrest yet.

I’m looking at Chicago today, moo. That’s my “direction of the day”.

I think the LE cleared their initial POIs, this is it. And then they came back to everyone else seen on that day...and had their epiphany.

 

[susiQ]

I would think he would take it off as soon as he hit a public trail again. Basically cover his bases if he was seen in the woods or on the bridge, but as soon as back in the public eye he is just taking a nice walk. Back to himself and accounted for not killing anyone right around that time.

For months now, I just discounted the "mask" angle. Seemed a bit "theatrical" to me. Having now looked them up, I will admit it is a possibility. As well, the way he had his head covered, it would conceal the edges. Some of these masks are incredibly life like. This could account for the differing sketches. Same body, clothes, etc. but a different face. Which also reaffirms my feeling (and LE) that this perp is local, as an out of state perp would not have the same fear of being recognized. JMO

 

[JnRyan]

Another option is self employed. I can pretty much work when I want because I run an online business from home.

If he is employed somewhere with Mondays off such as a barber or factory worker, someone may eventually make the connection between him and the sketch. But if he is self-employed, then that connection is more difficult to make.

 

[JnRyan]

I would think he would take it off as soon as he hit a public trail again. Basically cover his bases if he was seen in the woods or on the bridge, but as soon as back in the public eye he is just taking a nice walk. Back to himself and accounted for not killing anyone right around that time.

Yes, I can really see that. He probably didn't run from scene unless he did it in the woods away from the trail where he was likely to not be seen. Once he was where he could be seen he simply strolled along.
Two murders in the afternoon off a public hiking trail on sunny day. No leaves on the trees so you can be seen from farther away. I can't decide if this killer is very dumb, very bold or highly intelligent and well-organized. I strongly suspect it is a combination of the first two.

 

[JnRyan]

Maybe I am wrong, but to me BG looks like a complete coward.

While in many serial killers “taunting” behavior is observed (and possibly comes in “cycles”), this guy is probably scared and hiding. Although if he does taunt the police...except more cycles, and they probably kill during cycles as well.

Here, I think, it was a more mundane issue, someone ran into the LE representative and started asking questions that showed too much interest.

MOO

Sometimes I wonder if this coward is reading these posts as a guest. And reads things like this that we post. And knows that we know him for what he really is.

You out there, bozo? I hope you're taking notes.

 

[flashy09]

For months now, I just discounted the "mask" angle. Seemed a bit "theatrical" to me. Having now looked them up, I will admit it is a possibility. As well, the way he had his head covered, it would conceal the edges. Some of these masks are incredibly life like. This could account for the differing sketches. Same body, clothes, etc. but a different face. Which also reaffirms my feeling (and LE) that this perp is local, as an out of state perp would not have the same fear of being recognized. JMO

That is exactly what I thought too. I had no idea how realistic the masks are and how attainable (i.e, not Hollywood makeup job) it was to disguise yourself.

 

[BNA]

Don't religious workers/clergy customarily take Mondays off? I think this was so in the town I grew up in. Is this common practice still, does anyone know? The above post got me thinking. I hadn't thought about the crime and PC both being on Mondays, with the PC the Monday immediately after Easter.

Plenty of people have Mondays off. Barbers, many restaurants, just off the top of my head.