Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

[Boxer]

Yes, I can really see that. He probably didn't run from scene unless he did it in the woods away from the trail where he was likely to not be seen. Once he was where he could be seen he simply strolled along.
Two murders in the afternoon off a public hiking trail on sunny day. No leaves on the trees so you can be seen from farther away. I can't decide if this killer is very dumb, very bold or highly intelligent and well-organized. I strongly suspect it is a combination of the first two.

Any one local with any logic at all would not be leaving the CS by walking down the trail or CR 300.

 

[susiQ]

As I recall, LE have not ruled out more than one killer either. This has crossed my mind as well, given the speed in which the crime was initiated and completed. If this is the case, did they leave together or split up? It may not be a likely scenario but nevertheless possible, and does complicate the investigation. It has been said that the distance between the cemetery and the CS is about two football fields and if you pull right up to RL's property and gate, there's a nice little spot to tuck a car into where it cannot be seen from the main road.

I still lean toward this being a targeted killing, with the killer familiar with the girls (or at least one of them), but they unaware of him or his interest in them.

Just some random thoughts darting through my fried brain in the wee hours of the morning And with that, I'll bid you all a good night!

 

[Charlot123]

My strong thoughts today are that he’s very likely done it again and we need to find that crime, moo, jmo. I’m googling all kinds of things like “teen found in park”, “body found in forest”, etc etc. Needle in a haystack, of course. There are so many crimes.

Would you guys agree he’s likely killed again since the murders of Abby & Libby? Does anyone here think it’s likely he hasn’t? We are going on year 3 here. Some have long cooling off periods.

Thoughts?

BBM.

If he really is religious (and I have to trust Carter here), then in his mind, probably people should not depart without some form of last rites? Is the water meant to be a form of baptism, of purification. Because if BG is a Christian, in his mind, he must understand that he, by his hand, is going to make the girls die without the last rites. So he drives them through water. A grotesque form of last sacraments, I assume.

So if he killed before or after, it has to be near water, or underwater, or in the snow. The clearing? Maybe for the God to see some sign?

I think he is psychotic, obsessive, manipulative and very cowardly.

 

[margarita25]

Why the hell would a rapist or pedo choose 2 victims in a public place during the day when there are a million other opportunities to do so? I'm assuming.

Rsbm.

Well imo it depends on how “public” a person thinks this place is. I know there were others on the trail that day and locals have described it as a popular spot, etc, but strictly looking at it terrain wise, it is not a “concrete” location, say, compared to a shopping mall, or a school parking lot, or a residential street, or even a city park....it’s a wooded area, water, naturesque...

My opinion is that he chose this location because it is familiar to him and ideal for the type of crime he was wanting to commit, again killing on-site, as opposed to an abduction where the killer removes the victim from the scene completely. He also likely imo scoped it out before hand and planned a good parking spot and exit strategy.

As for during the day in broad day light , happens all the time. Jessica Ridgeway is a good example.

—-

BBM.

If he really is religious (and I have to trust Carter here), then in his mind, probably people should not depart without some form of last rites? Is the water meant to be a form of baptism,

I think this is good thinking.

The thing about this though is that I’m not sure if he anticipated them ending up by the creek? If they went across the bridge in an effort to get away from this creepy guy, by the time he caught up with them at the end of the bridge he could have just marched them down to an area he thought was suitable enough to do what he was planning to do. I wonder had he caught up with them before the bridge if he would have assaulted them there, if there is an area that would have been private enough?
( @fallingdown , @mtnlites )

——-

ETA: We’ve talked a lot about profiling aspects, etc. I think I’m finally ready to take a poooosssibbble leap to say that maaaybe one of his chosen and efficient MOs is to kill on-site. This doesn’t necessarily mean he is not one to abduct from a scene, but perhaps this a good and comfortable strategy that works for him. Moo.

 

[Charlot123]

Well imo it depends on how “public” a person thinks this place is. I know there were others on the trail that day and locals have described it as a popular spot, etc, but strictly looking at it terrain wise, it is not a “concrete” location, say, compared to a shopping mall, or a school parking lot, or a residential street, or even a city park....it’s a wooded area, water, naturesque...

My opinion is that he chose this location because it is familiar to him and ideal for the type of crime he was wanting to commit, again killing on-site, as opposed to an abduction where the killer removes the victim from the scene completely. He also likely imo scoped it out before hand and planned a good parking spot and exit strategy.

As for during the day in broad day light , happens all the time. Jessica Ridgeway is a good example.

—-



I think this is good thinking.

The thing about this though is that I’m not sure if he anticipated them ending up by the creek? If they went across the bridge in an effort to get away from this creepy guy, by the time he caught up with them at the end of the bridge he could have just marched them down to an area he thought was suitable enough to do what he was planning to do. I wonder had he caught up with them before the bridge if he would have assaulted them there, if there is an area that would have been private enough?
( @fallingdown , @mtnlites )

@margarita25, do you think that killing on site = symbolic sexualized behavior on site?

Then, he is either a young man who can not bring in a girl to his room due to conservative parents, or a married guy who lusts after teenagers/young women, but can’t bring them home. So in a symbolic form, sex is what he wants, but can not do in a closed public place (e.g., home), and he is such a home buddy that even Motel 6 is out of question? Because even his credit cards are monitored by someone else?

How does “the shack” factor in? Is it just the name of a movie, or some real hovel?

 

[margarita25]

@margarita25, do you think that killing on site = symbolic sexualized behavior on site?

Then, he is either a young man who can not bring in a girl to his room due to conservative parents, or a married guy who lusts after teenagers/young women, but can’t bring them home. So in a symbolic form, sex is what he wants, but can not do in a closed public place (e.g., home), and he is such a home buddy that even Motel 6 is out of question? Because even his credit cards are monitored by someone else?

How does “the shack” factor in? Is it just the name of a movie, or some real hovel?

Off the top of my head I am immediately reminded so much of basically almost every episode of “Evil Lives Here” it seems...these guys live double lives sometimes, travel to commit their crimes...I would like to think more about your question. Again I wonder about his family situation.

—-

There are numerous ways he could be familiar with this location.

—-

Quick question before I forget, can anyone name a SK that buried his killkit other than IK? Tia.

 

[Charlot123]

As I recall, LE have not ruled out more than one killer either. This has crossed my mind as well, given the speed in which the crime was initiated and completed. If this is the case, did they leave together or split up? It may not be a likely scenario but nevertheless possible, and does complicate the investigation. It has been said that the distance between the cemetery and the CS is about two football fields and if you pull right up to RL's property and gate, there's a nice little spot to tuck a car into where it cannot be seen from the main road.

I still lean toward this being a targeted killing, with the killer familiar with the girls (or at least one of them), but they unaware of him or his interest in them.

Just some random thoughts darting through my fried brain in the wee hours of the morning And with that, I'll bid you all a good night!

I just wondered...probably $ 500 masks were out of his league, but he must have has something on. Is he a comic-con fan? Is it possible that he saw Abby and Libby at a local comic-con? They come across as girls who could see it as “cool”. Is it where he is looking for victims?

 

[Charlot123]

Off the top of my head I am immediately reminded so much of basically almost every episode of “Evil Lives Here” it seems...these guys live double lives sometimes, travel to commit their crimes...I would like to think more about your question. Again I wonder about his family situation.

We don’t know about his family, but i’d bet on a very deep rift between the parents in his childhood. Probably not abuse, but parents were too different, and he stuck to one side, but constantly tried to gain attention and admiration of the other one. This created double-faced Janus.

And in all these guys, the cleft has never closed, but they pretend it did, to everyone, mostly, to own wives. This is why they have to travel far to be themselves.

JMO

 

[margarita25]

Rsbm
And in all these guys, the cleft has never closed, but they pretend it did, to everyone, mostly, to own wives. This is why they have to travel far to be themselves.

JMO

Again your post reminds me of “Evil Lives Here” on ID. So many of those episodes interview the wives of SKs. Often they are surprised to the extent of their spouse’s evil, but as the theme tagline of the show says, “but there had been signs.”

Thinking about some of these “signs” recollected in various episodes:

(Thinking / In progress)

 

[withoutlimits09]

There was an interesting arrest of a convicted child molester in EVANSVILLE, Ind. the other day. He tried to lure an 8-year-old girl, and had with him, what one news reporter called a "rape kit" or "lure kit" including cookies, a box cutter, and condoms.

Since I don't know the rules about posting people's names and or headlines, I will leave it at that. I heard about this on Nancy Grace's XM radio station today and thought there were some eerie similarities.

 

[margarita25]

There was an interesting arrest of a convicted child molester in EVANSVILLE, Ind. the other day. He tried to lure an 8-year-old girl, and had with him, what one news reporter called a "rape kit" or "lure kit" including cookies, a box cutter, and condoms.

Since I don't know the rules about posting people's names and or headlines, I will leave it at that. I heard about this on Nancy Grace's XM radio station today and thought there were some eerie similarities.

Okay I’m on it, will look for msm, thanks for the heads up.

Welcome.

—-

ETA:

https://44news.wevv.com/sex-offender-tries-lure-girl/
June 26, 2019

“The girl later told her mother Williamson had come by multiple times over several weeks, watching her on her bike. The last incident worried the young girl’s mother.

“He came up to her and said ‘Hey do you like Pokémon Go?’ and he downloaded two apps on her phone. It’s just scary,” the mother added.”

Snip

“We did some digging on Brian Williamson, and discovered he has a history of preying on children dating back to 2008.

He was convicted of a sex act with a minor. In 2012 he was arrested for harassment and stalking. In 2016, he was arrested again for failing to register as a sex offender. In April, Tennessee police put a warrant out for his arrest for a similar charge.”

—More at link

Fwiw:

Distance Evansville, IN to Delphi:

3 h 56 min(247.8 mi)
via I-69

 

[gregjrichards]

There was an interesting arrest of a convicted child molester in EVANSVILLE, Ind. the other day. He tried to lure an 8-year-old girl, and had with him, what one news reporter called a "rape kit" or "lure kit" including cookies, a box cutter, and condoms.

Since I don't know the rules about posting people's names and or headlines, I will leave it at that. I heard about this on Nancy Grace's XM radio station today and thought there were some eerie similarities.

Thank you for posting this. What a monster I am so glad he wasn’t able to harm the little girl. It is absolutely disgusting what he googled. I wonder what his prior offences are thank goodness he is off the streets. He should be jailed for life.

 

[Maplesyrup]

As I recall, LE have not ruled out more than one killer either. This has crossed my mind as well, given the speed in which the crime was initiated and completed. If this is the case, did they leave together or split up? It may not be a likely scenario but nevertheless possible, and does complicate the investigation. It has been said that the distance between the cemetery and the CS is about two football fields and if you pull right up to RL's property and gate, there's a nice little spot to tuck a car into where it cannot be seen from the main road.

I still lean toward this being a targeted killing, with the killer familiar with the girls (or at least one of them), but they unaware of him or his interest in them.

Just some random thoughts darting through my fried brain in the wee hours of the morning And with that, I'll bid you all a good night!

I agree with you. I also think it was targeted. I've thought about all the angles and wonder about this scenario. He may have decided to silence one of the girls who became aware of his behavior. If he has molested his daughter or other relative or a girl he has authority over... and that girl confided in [let's just say Libby, for example]...and BG found out this girl talked...then he could realize if he doesn't act fast, his cover will be blown. If [Libby...hypothetically] advised this girl she needed to talk or if she [Libby] said she would tell her family so they could help get him stopped...killing the girls would paralyze the molested victim into shutting up and never telling anyone else. If the victim depends on the killer in some way...maybe he is in a position of authority and no one will believe BG would ever do such a thing...who would she tell? If the one person she confided in ended up dead...she would be terrified. So, yeah...I think one...or both of the girls, were targeted.

 

[Maplesyrup]

In regard to my post above about Abby and Libby being targeted...Please see the following. The following quote is from

bookrags.com/studyguide-the-shack-where-tragedy-confronts-eternity

"Mack had never had a close relationship with God. His alcoholic father was an elder in the church the family attended but it did not keep his father from beating his mother when he was drunk. It also did not keep Mack’s father from tying Mack to a tree and beating him off and on for two days after Mack told someone in the church about his father’s violent tendencies. Missy’s abduction and murder only caused more separation in the relationship between Mack and God."

I think when Doug Carter referenced this book/movie, he did it for a reason. I also wonder if this book was used in the school by teachers...or someone... for summer reading or for use during the school year to discuss/analyze and to review in let's say a language arts class, for example.

 

[FinePrint]

My strong thoughts today are that he’s very likely done it again and we need to find that crime, moo, jmo. I’m googling all kinds of things like “teen found in park”, “body found in forest”, etc etc. Needle in a haystack, of course. There are so many crimes.

Would you guys agree he’s likely killed again since the murders of Abby & Libby? Does anyone here think it’s likely he hasn’t? We are going on year 3 here. Some have long cooling off periods.

Thoughts?

—

ETA: I’ve been thinking a lot lately about COD and potential “signatures” here. Again we understand why LE has to keep this close to the vest. They have to be able to weed it false confessions, etc. We all know that.

However I’m remembering a case where a certain disturbing sexual detail was shared in another case. A lady heard about this and thought that sounded like something her boyfriend did to her one time...that ended up being the break that solved that case...my point is I’m really wondering about all this close to the vest business re: COD only because I’m wondering if there’s something there that could ring a bell with someone, maybe someone who escaped or a domestic partner or family member, idk...Whatever LE does LE does and we have to go with it. I’m just wanting so badly to try to find some sort of connection somewhere and really it’s impossible with no information. Really all we know 2 1/2 years later is this:

A man on a bridge killed Abby and Libby on Feb 13, 2017 in Delphi, Indiana.

That’s really we all know when I really think about it.

We don’t know a single thing else for sure.

What else do we know for sure about the perp and the crime? I’m asking seriously and I’m going to think hard about this myself.

We know he marched them down the hill.

And we know he killed them.

111 threads.

We have a sketch. It depends on how much trust one puts in the sketch.

We have his voice.

I guess whatever LE thinks for sure (that they want us to know) is on the FBI website:

ABIGAIL WILLIAMS | Federal Bureau of Investigation

LIBERTY GERMAN | Federal Bureau of Investigation

Wow, that really has been on my mind. If he hasn't done it again I think he is very likely going to do it again here in the near future.

I'm still bothered that LE didn't caution the public in this area. They were so blasé. If I remember right LE said something like...the people around here know how to handle this (something like that)... Since the girls murders there have been several situations where a crime was committed and LE warned the public to be very careful but that was lacking in this case. Why?

I cringe because it was almost like they were trying to protect the trail/bridge and towns reputation rather than the public. It was like for some reason they didn't want to discourage anyone from visiting the area or the trail system.

For example when Etter assaulted that young lady in Lafayette and was on the run LE was constantly putting out the word to the public to be cautious, warning he was armed and dangerous. To be aware of your surroundings, stay away from the area and on and on they went.

I worried all summer long that he (BG) would rear his ugly head again. Why shouldn't the public in this area be concerned for their safety, for their children's safety??

If this wasn't some type of murder done by a known person to the victims then we have serial killer or the beginnings of a serial killer. 2 1/2 years....he's either struck in another area and no one has put 2 and 2 together or he will strike again soon....MOO of course!

 

[BradB]

I still lean toward this being a targeted killing, with the killer familiar with the girls (or at least one of them), but they unaware of him or his interest in them.

I agree here.

 

[kathryann]

FWIW I agree, I think this was a targeted attack. I think one or both of he girls had some type of information on someone he did not want revealed. I cant help but think there is much more to this that we don't know. With so many crimes being solved with very little evidence, it's just amazing to me that there is so much information on this person and still no arrest. Someone is protecting this guy.

 

[Eagle12]

Okay I’m on it, will look for msm, thanks for the heads up.

Welcome.

—-

ETA:

https://44news.wevv.com/sex-offender-tries-lure-girl/
June 26, 2019

There was also a Flora business owner arrested last wk for 2 counts of sexual acts on a child under 14 and 1 count of sexual acts on a person under 21. Someone with the same last name (different first name) owns land by High Bridge.

 

[Eagle12]

Have only posted a couple times and messed up above.

My apologies if this type of post is not allowed. Again, not used to posting.

Here is my original comment...
There was also a Flora business owner arrested last wk for 2 counts of sexual acts on a child under 14 and 1 count of sexual acts on a person under 21. Someone with the same last name (different first name) owns land by High Bridge.

 

[155etta]

Okay I’m on it, will look for msm, thanks for the heads up.

Welcome.

—-

ETA:

https://44news.wevv.com/sex-offender-tries-lure-girl/
June 26, 2019

“The girl later told her mother Williamson had come by multiple times over several weeks, watching her on her bike. The last incident worried the young girl’s mother.

“He came up to her and said ‘Hey do you like Pokémon Go?’ and he downloaded two apps on her phone. It’s just scary,” the mother added.”

Snip

“We did some digging on Brian Williamson, and discovered he has a history of preying on children dating back to 2008.

He was convicted of a sex act with a minor. In 2012 he was arrested for harassment and stalking. In 2016, he was arrested again for failing to register as a sex offender. In April, Tennessee police put a warrant out for his arrest for a similar charge.”

—More at link

Fwiw:

Distance Evansville, IN to Delphi:

3 h 56 min(247.8 mi)
via I-69

Did the girls play Pokemon Go?