Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[400bones]

no. not insane. possible para-phrenia, but not in a "snapped" way. More in a long slow progression of deepening anger, paranoia, and delusions of grandeur creating the need for revenge typical to narcissism and psychopathy/antisocial and possible borderline personality disorder. the link between distorted beliefs and perceptions in NPD and psychopathy do not reach to true psychosis, so not psychotic enough to be insane - not schizophrenic, but certainly not a healthy person.

Paraphrenia - Wikipedia

I'd be careful with speculating a link to certain disorders and attempting to rule out others, especially in a case of two murdered teens. Paraphrenia isn't a recognized disordered within the DSMV and is often explained by other causes related to schizophrenia such as atypical psychosis and delusional disorders. NPD and BPD are significantly different in their presentation, though I can't speak to psychopathy/APD as I have little experience.

 

[400bones]

I don't think he has paranoid schizophrenia or some other severe mental illness that would largely remove personal responsibility. I think he would have been caught by now if so, this attack happening then him somehow getting away in that state to medicate or whatever to restore his control is just way too perfect. And if this was a permanent state i imagine he would've went on a Richard Chase/Herbert Mullin like spree. There's no way he wouldn't have been caught or other local crimes wouldn't have happened.

Personally i think he's sociopathic or psychopathic which is a mental illness but obviously not what you were going for in your question.

Even severely mentally ill people (say, paranoid schizophrenics) have periods of lucidity though. He could be medicated, unmedicated, medicated to an inadequate degree, or taking medication improperly. This is why it's so hard to give an armchair diagnosis (no snark intended - it's late and I can't think of a better term!)

 

[margarita25]

no. not insane. possible para-phrenia, but not in a "snapped" way. More in a long slow progression of deepening anger, paranoia, and delusions of grandeur creating the need for revenge typical to narcissism and psychopathy/antisocial and possible borderline personality disorder. the link between distorted beliefs and perceptions in NPD and psychopathy do not reach to true psychosis, so not psychotic enough to be insane - not schizophrenic, but certainly not a healthy person.

Paraphrenia - Wikipedia

This actually sounds similar to another double homicide of two girls...the perp said he thought they were monsters or something like that (could be a BS defense tactic), but noting to look for that case for reference. Perhaps someone here remembers that case, I’ll have to search as I don’t remember the victims’names. All I remember is they were walking along a dirt/gravel road maybe? And iirc there wasn’t SA?

 

[Yemelyan]

This actually sounds similar to another double homicide of two girls...the perp said he thought they were monsters or something like that (could be a BS defense tactic), but noting to look for that case for reference. Perhaps someone here remembers that case, I’ll have to search as I don’t remember the victims’names. All I remember is they were walking along a dirt/gravel road maybe? And iirc there wasn’t SA?

This is the case of Taylor Placker and Skyla Whittaker, murdered by Kevin Sweat. He did say he shot them because he thought they were monsters but I doubt he is telling the truth about that. There actually WAS evidence that there was a sexual motivation to this crime though there was no sexual assault per se. There was evidence that one of the girls had been undressed, shot in the groin and redressed afterwards.

I'm glad you brought this up because it is important to remember for the sake of the Delphi discussion that when men are angry at women they often choose to take their anger out in sexual ways. It points at the motivation of BG.

 

[tresir2012]

This actually sounds similar to another double homicide of two girls...the perp said he thought they were monsters or something like that (could be a BS defense tactic), but noting to look for that case for reference. Perhaps someone here remembers that case, I’ll have to search as I don’t remember the victims’names. All I remember is they were walking along a dirt/gravel road maybe? And iirc there wasn’t SA?

Kevin Sweat - Taylor Placker and Sklyar Whittaker.

Similar case to this IMO.

(ETA I see Yemelyan has answered. However, there was also a possible link in that case to the father of one of the girls and the drug death of Sweat's brother as a possible motive also IIRC.)

 

[Nadal]

Even severely mentally ill people (say, paranoid schizophrenics) have periods of lucidity though. He could be medicated, unmedicated, medicated to an inadequate degree, or taking medication improperly. This is why it's so hard to give an armchair diagnosis (no snark intended - it's late and I can't think of a better term!)

Yeah, you're right. I usually try and avoid doing that sort of thing it was just the main ongoing conversation and i personally think this was carefully planned so someone with some type of serious psychosis doesn't really fit into that.

 

[Maplesyrup]

Maybe the social media account BG was monitoring was his child's account?

This is a possibility. I, for one, had the passwords of my daughter's social media on my phone. One requirement was that I could see what she was doing. If I pulled the app up, I could actually see direct messages and private messages. She is older now and obviously I don't have that information [better that I don't, ugh, I would tear my hair out, I'm sure] but yes, absolutely someone could be monitoring messages back and forth and never make one reply himself.

 

[Maplesyrup]

you gotta wonder if someone hacked her phone to track her. very possible.

My daughter's snapchat has a "find a friend" component. Unless the person on snapchat blocks their location, you zoom in on their little snapchat emoji or whatever that thingy is called [it looks like a little miniature person]...and presto...you know exactly where the person is. I hate that feature because all the stalking weirdos can see it. Also, they add "filters" to snapchat photos that might say "Grand Canyon South Rim, AZ" or "Cleveland, OH" or "Folly Beach Pier"...etc. I really hate the lack of privacy on social media and kids don't have a clue how very dangerous it really is. Ugh. IMO

 

[JnRyan]

I'd be careful with speculating a link to certain disorders and attempting to rule out others, especially in a case of two murdered teens. Paraphrenia isn't a recognized disordered within the DSMV and is often explained by other causes related to schizophrenia such as atypical psychosis and delusional disorders. NPD and BPD are significantly different in their presentation, though I can't speak to psychopathy/APD as I have little experience.

I can't see schizophrenia or delusional disorders being a factor here in this case although I don't work in the field. Aren't those suffering from schizophrenia really more of a threat to themselves than to others?

 

[400bones]

I can't see schizophrenia or delusional disorders being a factor here in this case although I don't work in the field. Aren't those suffering from schizophrenia really more of a threat to themselves than to others?

Generally, yes. And I don't mean to say that I believe the perpetrator suffers from psychosis, I just think we shouldn't be so quick to rule it out. Schizophrenic (and other mentally ill) people are most likely to harm themselves, or be victims of violent crimes - but they can also be the ones that commit them. For example, the case of Vince Li.

 

[Charlot123]

One consideration. Could the perp be, actually, stalking Kelsie? And just decided that the girls could do, too, because the opportunity presented itself, when he saw Kelsie dropping them off, and because Libby resembled her.
Why is it important to answer? We have discussed everyone around the girls, but if the person was obsessed with Libby’s sister, we have to look through different yearbooks, and possibly, through a different pool of POIs. And they might be somewhat older. Some might be in college, or, have graduated.
That the crime is personal, I feel. And I am still not sure that he was hunting for two girls, or maybe it was unimportant.
Also - the guy is dressed as a farmer, but he knows technology. I think the white things in his ears on the photo are earbuds. And yesterday I was told how one could put a tracer on a person’s cellphone. You don’t need to be a super hacker, but have some knowledge of where to look for the malware..
I also thought that if he were following the girls in a car (and he probably needed a car to get out of the area fast), then, he knew where to park it. So whoever he is, he used to at least to come to Delphi when he was of driving age.

 

[Charlot123]

He really did luck out. The more I think about it, the more it seems like there had to be some planning, or he had some help (a lookout, at least). It's just too neat. Encounters them at just the right place, corrals them down the hill and out of sight with no trouble, kills them and leaves them in a spot where they are not found til almost noon the next day? In a super short amount of time. No, not random.

not random, and the person has the knowledge of how to plan human abductions and killings. Either a professional, or an amateur who has been planning it for a long time.

 

[Charlot123]

I can't see schizophrenia or delusional disorders being a factor here in this case although I don't work in the field. Aren't those suffering from schizophrenia really more of a threat to themselves than to others?

Me neither. For one, the diagnostic principles may change again, as more is known about the brain, and also, five psychiatrists might disagree on the diagnosis of this guy, based on their personal experience. Also, meth can still be a factor in his mental state. That he is probably “not totally there” and has severe anger issues, we might agree, but he also works very well and is not disorganized under stress. He was able to kill fast and escape unnoticed. And this is very interesting. Supposedly, he had a bad day, and was hearing voices. What kind of job would you still be able to do? Probably the one that is routine for you...

If there is anyone with whom he shared the knowledge of the crime, as DC has said, I can bet it was not his shrink.

 

[Nadal]

Agreed, i think he was planning it for ages. I think he's likely not from Delphi or even Indiana but he either stayed there as a kid or had a relative who he visited, but he's probably not had that connection in 10+ years which is why no one remembers him (this and most of this post is an assumption of course). He probably watches and reads a lot about murders and has went to lengths as best as he can to make this a tough case to solve, doing the attack in an area he knows well but no longer has a connection to would be a good move in that regard. He's probably a paedophile who watches a lot of child and maybe even has convictions for it but not in Indiana, in Chicago or wherever he's from and through that he uses something like TOR and has been for a long time meaning he knows what he's doing with it, using TOR he stalked various Delphi childrens Social Media which makes it difficult to track him down especially if he didn't engage any of them then he's got the perfect opportunity with Abby and Libby going to the trail. That or he knew of the trail when he previously lived there and he knew children often went there (i know it's been said children don't often go there but i've heard the opposite too, plus maybe they did 10+ years ago when he was a kid) so he went and lucked out.

Of course this is full of assumptions and is based on so little, i've changed my mind so much on this case and any release of information could easily make me do a 180. That's just the type of story that satisfies all my questions best right now.

 

[Nadal]

The case i'm most thinking of that played out similarly to what i'm thinking happened here is Kacie Woody. Her killer had been watching child and likely abusing his daughter for years but he was in his 40s or 50s and had never attacked a random child until his wife broke up with him and he lost custody of his kid. He then started preying on kids online and very carefully planned out the murder of Kecie for well over a year, he had several dry runs to Arkansas (he was from California) and even aborted one attempt while he was in her house because she was with friends then left it another several months before trying again. He rented a storage locker and that's where he killed Kacie and eventually himself, LE thinks he was planning on going back to California however before they gave out his description over the radio as he had a radio in the storage locker. He was caught because it was the early days of the internet (2001 i think) and he didn't cover his tracks well, people especially people who have to hide their online activities like paedophiles today know much better how to cover their tracks and i'm thinking BG is one of them. And in the Kecie Woody case her killer had never been to Arkansas in his life, he just visited it a few times and searched for things online to work out his plan so i see that as still a possibility for BG.

 

[tresir2012]

I want to ask a question about RSO's. Early on LE said they checked all CaCo RSO's to rule them out. Does anyone know if neighbouring counties were also checked? I am thinking specifically of Tippecanoe, as Lafayette appears to have a high number of offenders. Anyone remember which counties they checked?

Also, am wondering if they also would have checked early releases too. There was a cold case recently solved when LE reviewed the case and discovered that two guys had been ruled out as being in jail, when in actual fact they were released early that morning and had committed the murder. Can't remember the actual case now but I bet someone will. Anyway, it just occurred to me that something similar could have happened here perhaps. Just a random speculation.

 

[RIP Meagan + Johnny]

My daughter's snapchat has a "find a friend" component. Unless the person on snapchat blocks their location, you zoom in on their little snapchat emoji or whatever that thingy is called [it looks like a little miniature person]...and presto...you know exactly where the person is. I hate that feature because all the stalking weirdos can see it. Also, they add "filters" to snapchat photos that might say "Grand Canyon South Rim, AZ" or "Cleveland, OH" or "Folly Beach Pier"...etc. I really hate the lack of privacy on social media and kids don't have a clue how very dangerous it really is. Ugh. IMO

Hi Maplesyrup,

IIRC, the GPS feature in Snapchat was not available in February of 2017. (Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but I know it was discussed a long time ago.)

One consideration. Could the perp be, actually, stalking Kelsie? And just decided that the girls could do, too, because the opportunity presented itself, when he saw Kelsie dropping them off, and because Libby resembled her.
Why is it important to answer? We have discussed everyone around the girls, but if the person was obsessed with Libby’s sister, we have to look through different yearbooks, and possibly, through a different pool of POIs. And they might be somewhat older. Some might be in college, or, have graduated.
That the crime is personal, I feel. And I am still not sure that he was hunting for two girls, or maybe it was unimportant.
Also - the guy is dressed as a farmer, but he knows technology. I think the white things in his ears on the photo are earbuds. And yesterday I was told how one could put a tracer on a person’s cellphone. You don’t need to be a super hacker, but have some knowledge of where to look for the malware..
I also thought that if he were following the girls in a car (and he probably needed a car to get out of the area fast), then, he knew where to park it. So whoever he is, he used to at least to come to Delphi when he was of driving age.

Hi, Charlot123,

RBBM

Farmers know technology.
JMO

~RIP M+J

 

[moonlessnight]

Schizophrenia does pose a higher risk to others. BG is probably not schizophrenic bc I believe this was pre-planned. But he likely has distorted thoughts that could border on paranoia and/or delusions (without hallucination), as in NPD/APD.

I can't see schizophrenia or delusional disorders being a factor here in this case although I don't work in the field. Aren't those suffering from schizophrenia really more of a threat to themselves than to others?

 

[tresir2012]

Schizophrenia does pose a higher risk to others. BG is probably not schizophrenic bc I believe this was pre-planned. But he likely has distorted thoughts that could border on paranoia and/or delusions (without hallucination), as in NPD/APD.

How could it be pre-planned if the girls didn't even know they were going till nearly 1.30. Or do you mean a random victim was planned?

 

[moonlessnight]

This is something I just started thinking about. It is possible.

One consideration. Could the perp be, actually, stalking Kelsie? And just decided that the girls could do, too, because the opportunity presented itself, when he saw Kelsie dropping them off, and because Libby resembled her.
Why is it important to answer? We have discussed everyone around the girls, but if the person was obsessed with Libby’s sister, we have to look through different yearbooks, and possibly, through a different pool of POIs. And they might be somewhat older. Some might be in college, or, have graduated.
That the crime is personal, I feel. And I am still not sure that he was hunting for two girls, or maybe it was unimportant.
Also - the guy is dressed as a farmer, but he knows technology. I think the white things in his ears on the photo are earbuds. And yesterday I was told how one could put a tracer on a person’s cellphone. You don’t need to be a super hacker, but have some knowledge of where to look for the malware..
I also thought that if he were following the girls in a car (and he probably needed a car to get out of the area fast), then, he knew where to park it. So whoever he is, he used to at least to come to Delphi when he was of driving age.